Bob kuechenberg...the competition he faces this year for HOF enshrinement | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Bob kuechenberg...the competition he faces this year for HOF enshrinement

jg772006

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I posted this last year when it was announced that Bob Kuechenberg made it to the semi-finalists list for the NFL Hall of Fame. Now I am posting it for the last time because, truth be told, THIS COULD BE THE LAST TIME.

So once again, and possibly for the last time, its time to dig into Miami Dolphin past and ask ourselves and discuss the question that all Dolfans have been asking ourselves for the last seven years, going on our eighth and potential final year.

Does former Miami Dolphins Offensive Guard Bob Kuechenberg deserve enshrinement into the NFL Hall of Fame?

It was announced two days ago, that the list of the 25 semi-finalists for the NFL Hall of Fame has been released. Again, it is an EXTREMELY impressive list that includes:

FIRST BALLOT NOMINEES: Bruce Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Rod Woodson, John Randle

PAST FINALISTS: Cris Carter, Andre Reed, Derrick Thomas, Richard Dent, Ray Guy, Randall McDaniel, Russ Grimm, Lester Hayes, Paul Tagliabue, Ralph Wilson, Jr., Art Modell

OTHER: Roger Craig, Terrel Davis, Dermontti Dawson, Chris Doleman, Kevin Greene, Charles Haley, Cortez Kennedy, Ken Stabler, Steve Tasker

And the Two Senior Nominees announced back in August: Bob Hayes, Claude Humphrey

Now it is pretty safe to assume that when early January rolls around, Bob Kuechenberg once again, for the 8th year in a row will make the finalists list. By NFL Law, between 4-7 players get inducted each year thanks to a rule change made a few years ago, which is sad because certainly every player on this list was great in his own unique way. So once they trim this list down to the final 17 (15 modern era canidates, and the two senior nominees), the hall of Fame committee will once again have the opportunity to torture all Miami fans and the 1972 Undefeated Team for not enshrining Bob Kuechenberg.

That being said, it is safe to assume it wil be Bob's 8th consecutive year where he made the finalists list. In the past seven years, he missed the cut each year. The question is why?


Here are the positives with Bob that go "for" his enshrinement:

He played for the Dolphins from 1970-1984, being a part of all five of Miami's AFC Championships, and their Super Bowl Championships in the 70s which obviously included their 1972 Undefeated season. He was selected to Six Pro Bowls (1974-1975, 1977-1978, 1982-1983), Three time First (1975, 1978) or Second (1977) Team All-Pro, and a Three time All-AFC selection (1974-1975, 1978). He was extremely durable, spending time at not only guard, but at center, left tackle (the hardest position on the line), and even took on long snapping responsibilities as well. Playing in 196 career games, he also had consecutive starting streaks of 53, 42, and 49 games. That's extremely consistent for any offensive lineman.

However, what works "against" Bob Kuechenberg's enshrinement?

It has be argued numerous times, that the number one reason Bob is not yet in, is mainly because of the fact that he was not one of the best offensive linemen (or guards) during his tenure in football, let alone on his own team of the Dolphins. Okay I'll admit, that is correct. Jim Langer and Larry Little were certainly phenomenal and certainly deserving of the Hall of Fame. But the three of them, Jim, Larry, and Kooch were all great because they complimented each other. They were one of the greatest interior offensive lineman trios' in the history of the NFL. That didn't work against Jim or Larry since those two have long been inducted, but it certainly has worked against Bob. Many say that Bob was only as successful as he was because of Jim and Larry. I don't find that to be true, but it is what the committee believes.



So once again this year, the NFL Hall of Fame committee will once again have the opportunity to right a wrong. The question is...Will they? Bob has become so close in getting elected, its disgusting...mainly on three certain years of induction.

In 2002, when they announced the "preliminary" nominees for the Hall of Fame, they announced that Bob was an AUTOMATIC finalist. That has never happened before in the history of their selection process. Why would you make someone an automatic finalist when you announce the preliminary nominees, but not put him in? It does not make sense. Bob was one of the final seven in the 2002 HOF class, and he and Bill Parcells were shafted that year. That was wrong, especially since at that time, you could put seven in the hall. I think it was because Nick Buoniconti suggesting in his Hall of Fame speech one year prior, to consider Bob for election. In 2002, he was nominated as a finalist when the preliminary nominees were announced, and made it to the final seven...Result, he did not get in.

In 2003, an injustice happened. Joe DeLamielluere, who played offensive guard for the Bills in the 60s and 70s, was elected to the Hall of Fame mainly because he was the offensive guard that helped produce the NFL's first 2,000 yard rusher (O.J. Simpson). I won't get into detail, but one might argue that Bob's credentials are even better that Joe's, which they are. Bob won more championships, and was elected to more Pro Bowls. If Joe got in for allowing the first 2,000 yard rusher, then Bob should get in being a part of allowing for the first time in NFL history...two 1,000 yard rushers in the same season (Csonka and Morris in 1972).

Then in 2004, the Hall of Fame committee did something absolutely disgusting to Bob. As a matter of fact, this was the second time it happened to Bob. When the Hall of Fame committee do their selection process of the 15 finalists, they first trim in down from 15 to 10, then 10 to 6. Then when they get it down to 6, it is a simple yes or no vote to each of the remaining six on who gets in and who gets out. The final six in 2004 were Bob Brown, Carl Eller, John Elway, Bob Hayes, Barry Sanders, and Kooch. Kooch and Hayes were shafted. How can you deny someone of the Hall of Fame when he makes the final six, especially when you can put in a maximum of six in the hall each year (with a rule change this year, a max. of seven can get in this year). To me, that is just wrong...denying someone of the highest achievement in football like that. This was the second time it happened to Kooch just like in 2002.

From 2005-2008, Bob was selected as a finalist, but did not even make it passed the top 7 cut. Geez, how long can one man remain patient by waiting to get his call? In Kooch's case, guarding Alan Page in Super Bowl VIII was easier. By the way, if Alan Page (the greatest defensive tackle of all time) is in the Hall of Fame (which he is), then Bob should certainly should be in because Bob kicked his rear end in that game, even with a broken arm. That remains as one of the greatest performances by an offensive lineman in Super Bowl history.

Now the number one thing of GREAT importance for Bob this year is that THIS IS HIS LAST YEAR ON THE MODERN-ERA BALLOT!!! His 25 years of being a modern-era canidate are up after this year. (he retired after the 1984 season, became eiligible after the 1989 season, and from 1990-2008 which is 24 years, he has not been inducted). If Bob does not get in this year, the only way he will ever be inducted is as a senior nominee. Granted, being selected as a senior nominee is almost like being given a guaranteed pass to the Hall, however, the problem with that is, he may have to wait for may more years before he will become considered again.


So lets go through the competition he faces this year for NFL enshrinement...player by player, as well as who I think will get in this year:

Cris Carter - Cris Carter was one of the greatest WRs of all time, and it was very surprising to me, that he did not get in last year. I think the reason why he did not get in last year, was the committee wanted to finally put in Art Monk. Cris will most definitly get in someday. He stats are amazing, he is high up on every major receiving category, hes been to mutiple Pro Bowls, and was one of the best at his positon during his time in football.

Roger Craig - I can't believe Roger is not in yet. I was surprised to find out this is as far as he has gone in the voting process. He was one of the most versital RBs of his time. The first RB ever to have 1,000 yards rushing and 1,000 yards receiving in the same season. Three championships with the 49ers, 11 years in the league helping his teams to the playoffs in ALL of his 11 years, along with 4 Pro Bowls and a 1980s All-Decade selection. Roger should of gone in years ago.

Terrell Davis - Nothing against Terrell, but I do not think he deserves to be in. One thing that I believe should be considered when looking at a potential HOFer is consistency and stability. Terrell played 7 years in the league, but only had a great three year run, winning 2 Super Bowls, named League MVP, becoming one of only 5 RBs ever to achieve 2,000 rushing yards in a single season and a trio of Pro Bowls, among many other awards. Having a great three year run is not good enough to make the hall of fame in my book.

Dermotti Dawson - Dermontti was one of the greatest centers of all time, but like most lineman, their made to wait. Dermontti, a 7 time Pro Bowler, and 6 time All-Pro will surely get in someday, but dont be surprised if he waits longer.

Richard Dent - Richard should of been inducted 10 years ago. Arguably the best pass rusher on the Bears in 85', winning 2 Super Bowls (one with the Bears, one with the 49ers), 137.5 sacks, and Super Bowl XX MVP, along with 4 Pro Bowls should get you in the Hall. I would not be upset if Richard finally gets in this year, cause he deserves it just as much.

Chris Doleman - Chris is another interesting case that I'm surprised is not in. 8 Pro Bowls, an All-Decade Team selection and 150.5 sacks which is good for 5th ALL TIME. Chris, in my book, is in the same boat as Richard Dent. They have waited too long to be inducted, and like Richard, I would not be upset if he finally gets in.

Kevin Greene - I LOVED WATCHING KEVIN GREENE. He was awesome. He had an isane personally, which proved he had a great passion to play football. He accumuated 160 sacks in his career as a DE and a LB. He was one of the most versital defensive players of all time, and he did it for 4 different teams. 5 Pro Bowls and an All-Decade team selection should help garner his selection hopefully in a few years.

Russ Grimm - I have to admit this, even as a Dolphin fan. One lineman that is not in the Hall of Fame that does deserve it more than Kooch is Russ Grimm. When I think of the Redskins, the first thing that comes to my mind is "The Hogs", one of the greatest offensive lines ever assembled with Joe Jacoby, Jeff Bostic, and of course Russ Grimm. Its very surprising that not a single one of those linemen is in the hall, especially after seeing how great their running game was for years. Russ won three championships as a player (won another as a line coach), 4 Pro Bowls, a All-Decade Team selection, and one of the best Guards at his position during his era of football. If Russ gets in and not Kooch, i honestly would not be mad because, truth be told, Russ deserves it a little bit more.

Ray Guy - How Ray Guy is not in the Hall of Fame is beyond belief. Three championships, an All-Decade Team selection, hes on the NFL 75th Anniversairy Team, and he never had a punt blocked in his career. Ray Guy was honestly, THE GREATEST PUNTER OF ALL TIME. If their was just one punter...ONE PUNTER...that you could honestly, fairly, and justifiably put in the Hall of Fame, and never again put another punter in from now to the end of time, that one punter is without a doubt Ray Guy.

Charles Haley - Charles Haley, I do not believe belongs in the Hall of Fame. The argument for Haley's enshrinement is that fact that he won 5 Super Bowl Rings. Ok..fair enough. Look at the offenses he was put with. He was not one of the most dominating DEs during his time. He has 5 rings mainly because of the offenses that he had were so good. Charles I do not think desevres enshrinement.

Lester Hayes - NFL Defensive Player of the Year, 5 Pro Bowls, an All-Decade Selection with 2 Championships should put anyone in the Hall. But one thing has kept him out of the Hall..."Stick Em". Lester is another one of those players that deserves to be in, but will perhaps never get in because of the negative image the Raiders encouraged in the 70s, which included the use of "Stick Em".

Cortez Kennedy - Cortez, is another player I am not so sure deserves enshrinement. With only 55 sacks and 2 Pro Bowls, he was not necessarily one of the best at his positon during his time in football. Being selected as an All-Pro five times does help a little, but I'm not sure it will be enough for him ever to get enshrined.

Randall McDaniel - 12...YES...12 Pro Bowl selections will put anyone in the Hall of Fame. For Randall, its only a matter of time. He was so dominate during his time in football. Like Russ, maybe he deserves it a little bit more than Kooch, but i'm not gonna say that. But Randall will surely get in someday.

Art Modell - ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Art had a poor relationship with the media, he ran Paul Brown out of town, and the NFL Hall of Fame is located in Canton, OHIO. Can you imagine if he does get in the amount of people that will boo him during his induction speech??!! Why should he be selected to the Hall. Because he owned the Browns for 40 years, then moved them to Baltimore? Then everyone felt happy for him when he finally won the Super Bowl. Give me a break. I can't believe he is even being considered.

John Randle - One of the most feared, yet entertaining DTs inthe history of football. 137.5 sacks, 7 Pro Bowls, an All-Decade Selection will get him in one day, but don't be surprised if he waits a few more years. If I had a vote, I'd vote for him.

Andre Reed - With Cris Carter, and next year with Jerry Rice and Tim Brown becoming eligible, we are gonna have another logjam with WRs. Andre was one of the catalysts for the Bills in the 90s that helped them to 4 Super Bowls in a row. His stats speak for themselves, along with 7 Pro Bowls should get him in. I think once the committe puts Jerry Rice in next year, then they will start with the lower eshalon of WRs like Brown, Carter, Reed, etc. Once they have the All-Time leading receiver in, I think it will be easier, yet a lil harder for WRs to get in because then they will be holding them to the standard of Jerry Rice.

Shannon Sharpe - Shannon is an interesting case. Seven TEs are in the Hall of Fame (J. Mackey, M. Ditka, O. Newsome, D. Casper, K. Winslow, C. Sanders, and J. Smith). NONE OF THEM GOT IN THE HALL IN THEIR FIRST YEAR OF ELIGIBILITY. I do not think Shannon should be any different, especially since he was a bit of a loud mouth, and he was purely a receiver, not a blocker. In my book to be a great TE, you have to excell as a blocker and receiver. Shannon deserves to get in (and he will get in eventually), but i think he can wait a few years.

Bruce Smith - Read my Lips!!!...For all you Buffalo Bills fans out there, pack your bags now and head to canton. BRUCE SMITH WILL BE ONE OF THE POTENTIAL SEVEN THAT GETS ENSHRINED INTO THE NFL HALL OF FAME THIS YEAR. He was just too dominate. Two Defensive Player of the Year awards, 11 Pro Bowl Selections, and All-Decade Selection, and 200 career sacks. I will be shcoked if he does not get in this year, but we don't have to worry. Bruce Smith is one of two First Ballot locks on this list.

Ken Stabler - Another player that should of been inducted years ago. The only reason why he is not in the Hall yet, was again, the negative image of the Raiders, plus he was considered as a rebel. Hes got a Super Bowl Title, 5 Pro Bowls, League MVP, and his W-L record with the Raiders is absolutely amazing. I think they will make him wait more and more, and eventually let him in, but don't hold your breath on it. If he hasn't been elected yet, he may never be elected.

Paul Tagliabue - Paul is aother one that can wait a few more years just like Pete Rozelle did many years ago. Paul did alot for the NFL during his time as commissioner, and he will be rewarded someday with his HOF induction, but it should not be this year.

Steve Tasker - Here we go with the special teams talk. Yes, Steve Tasker was undoubtedly the greatest Special Team player of all time, but why do you play on special teams. Because you can't play on offense, and you can't play on defense. Steve is another player I am just up in the air about, when it comes to NFL Hall of Fame induction. If he ever gets in, I'll be happy for him, but in my humble opinion, I don't think he'll ever get in.

Derrick Thomas - Derrick Thomas MUST go in this year. He was a one man wrecking crew. Arguably, the best blitzing MLB of all time. SOmetimes I think he was a better pass rusher than LT, because LT blitzed off the edges. Derrick did it up the middle. Its a shame his career ended prematurely because of a car accident, and I'm surprised hes waited this long. Derrick was one, if not THE BEST LB of the 1990's. He must get in sooner or later.

Ralph Wilson, Jr. - I will admit as a Dolphins fan, that the number one active owner today that deserves enshrinement for the NFL Hall of Fame, even if he is the owner of the Bills, is Ralph Wilson, Jr. He has done alot for that organization for the last 45 years. He has shown great dedication for his team and the league during that time, and he is still going. Again, like many others, its only a matter of time before he gets in.

Rod Woodson - Like Bruce Smith, ROD WOODSON WILL BE ONE OF THE POTENTIAL SEVEN THAT GETS ENSHRINED INTO THE NFL HALL OF FAME THIS YEAR. He was another player that was just too dominate. 71 Career INTs, 12 returned for TDs, 11 Pro Bowl Selections, and All-Decade Selection, and on the NFL's 75th Anniversairy Team. No Doubt that Rod will get in this year as well. He is one of those players, that just flat out, should not be made to wait. He was that good. Rod Woodson and Bruce Smith are as good as in this year.


And the Two Senior Nominees:

Bob Hayes - Bob should of gotten in the Hall many years ago as well. His claim to fame is that he is the only football player in history that has a Super Bowl Championship, and an Olympic Gold Metal. The reason why he has not been elected yet was the fact that he served 5 years of prison time for drug conspiracy. Once known as the fastest man alive, this is Bob Hayes's second selection as a senior nominee. If he does get in this time, its highly unlikely he will ever get in.

Claude Humphrey - Another DE that was most definitely dominant during his era of football. An unofficial 126.5 sacks and six Pro Bowls should help with his induction. Plus being one of two senior nominees, its alot likely that Claude will get in this year. It appears the Atlanta Falcons organization will finally get their first NFL Hall of Famer this year.


So there you have it folks. My own persoanl break down of the 25 semi-finalists for the NFL Hall of Fame, as well as what Bob Kuechenberg is going up against. When they trim the list from 27 down to 17, I will then post my FULL predictions on who I think will get in this year. In the meantime, tell me what you think, what you agree or disagree with, etc. See you in January.
 
Out of those finalists...There is not one man among them that I think should see the Hall than Keuch. I mean..Seriously. There are "Position Snobs" out there that absolutely infuriate me and, OG is one of those positions.

Might I add it is an absolute CRIME agasint Football that Ray Guy is not in there
 
my question is

i know this is his last year of eligability as a modern era selectee- how many years does he have to wait until he can go in as a senior? I saw it somewhere, i just dont remember where.
 
my question is

i know this is his last year of eligability as a modern era selectee- how many years does he have to wait until he can go in as a senior? I saw it somewhere, i just dont remember where.


Once you've been moved to the senior ballot, you can get selected at anytime during any year for enshrinement I believe, and they can select you as many times as they want.

Marshall Goldberg, Lou Creekmur, Henry Jordan, and Bob Hayes all have been selected as a senior nominee more than once. Lou and Henry got in.
 
Once you've been moved to the senior ballot, you can get selected at anytime during any year for enshrinement I believe, and they can select you as many times as they want.

Marshall Goldberg, Lou Creekmur, Henry Jordan, and Bob Hayes all have been selected as a senior nominee more than once. Lou and Henry got in.

I don't know if I like Keuch's chances better on that ballot or not. I'm upset he's not it. It's a crime.
 
Once you've been moved to the senior ballot, you can get selected at anytime during any year for enshrinement I believe, and they can select you as many times as they want.

Marshall Goldberg, Lou Creekmur, Henry Jordan, and Bob Hayes all have been selected as a senior nominee more than once. Lou and Henry got in.

You could be right, i do not know much about it but i thought i remember reading a story stating that they had to wait a number of years between last modern day eligibility and 1st senior eligibility. :unsure:
 
I like Woodsons chances, and Grimm is very deserving of enshrinement. Art should be laughed at and tossed out should not be mentioned at all.

I think Kooch will have a tough time getting in with some of these candidates. Best of luck for him.
 
Bruce Smith is a lock for this year

Stabler should be in, Dent should be in, Derrick Thomas should be in. It's a crime that those three already are not.

Kuechenberg isn't going to get in this year, he should but he has far too many names to beat out IMO.
 
Rod Woodson, Bruce Smith, and Shannon Sharpe are likely to be picked. As for Sharpe, he was a great all around player. Those who view him as only a receiver are basically saying it due to his great success as a receiving tight end; however, you must account all his all-pro's and Super Bowl rings, and as well as his pro bowls. Those are 8 pro-bowls, 3 superbowl rings, and 6 all pro selections, and all-decade credentials.
 
As far as Derick Thomas, I do not see him getting elected this year due to many reasons. The original poster did mention that he was the best middle blitzing linebacker in recent memory(could be easily argued); however, while he was elected to 9 pro bowl or so, he wasn't always the first pick. In addition, he only had all pro credentials two times in the early 90's and the rest were second all-pro team nominations. Great player but he was not consistent on stopping the run and never really excel from that standpoint. That is the reason why he has not been picked and also because there are better defensive players for nomination.
 
For the simple reason Joe DeLamielluere is IN and Kooch has to wait....makes me sick...
What great Play-off games did Joe win???,,,,,,SuperBowls???
I was there the day Dan Marino was put in and 2 older players were also elected....1 had lived a long life and still never got to see the day....makes me sad....
The Hall would rather wait till the Player dies then put him in.????
 
For the simple reason Joe DeLamielluere is IN and Kooch has to wait....makes me sick...
What great Play-off games did Joe win???,,,,,,SuperBowls???
I was there the day Dan Marino was put in and 2 older players were also elected....1 had lived a long life and still never got to see the day....makes me sad....
The Hall would rather wait till the Player dies then put him in.????

Joe was pretty instrumental in blocking for one of the great all-time RB's (and his 2000 yard season) to ever play the game. I have no problem with him being in.
 
I don't know if I like Keuch's chances better on that ballot or not. I'm upset he's not it. It's a crime.

+1


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The fact that Ray Guy is not in is a travesty. Jan Stenerud is in the hOF (the only pure kicker that is in), but he isn't even the best kicker of all-time (though he may have been when he was enshrined in the mid-80's. In coming years, it will be intersting to see if Morten Andersen, Gary Anderson, etc. earn enshrinement. IMO, the best kicker ever is Jason Elam. He had everything. He could kick the ball a mile. He was accurate. He kicked outdoors in the elements of Denver). Ray Guy is the best punter ever and should be inducted. John Madden said that Guy was the only Raiders draft pick where Al Davis and all coaches were in consensus.

I do believe the fact that Kuech was only the third-best O-lineman on his team hurts his chances but he should definitely be in.
 
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