Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Aquablood, Nov 28, 2017.
Just accept the fact this was a bs article from the beginning by someone who had no clue about the Fins locker room.
Look you have losses and wins every year that you kind of say what the heck as they are a bit of a surprise based on how your team has been playing. So far this win fits that catagory. It was nice to see a complete team we win and was a big upgrade minus the poor QB performance IMO. We will see moving forward if the team plays better, Drake stays healthy etc. At this point the thing I am most convinced about Gase recently is he lets his ego make judgment calls that I personally do not think are great decisions. Yes the Ajayi trade, the on side kick this last game and playing Cutler whom does not get the job done by pushing the ball down the field or spreading it out to all his receivers.
I will say that Chambers does have legit sources....if you want to see that info it is VIP only though.
I can understand the Cutler trade even though I did not agree. It was a big gamble and Gase lost big. Yet I still can see the thinking behind the move. My big problem with Gase was his failure to address the OL. He believed he can go cheap on OL and still be adequate. Plus he knew Pouncey was finished, but he WISHED by wrapping him up in preseason, Pouncey would gain his past glory.
He deserves to be heavily critized this year, OL problem was obvious and it affects every aspect of the team. Yet many posters here still have a blindfold on.
So ... being at 5-7, he's lost the dressing room, based on win/loss record? I guess the 2016 Panthers, who had been to the Superbowl the year before, had a coach who lost the dressing room, since their record was 6-10? But ... I guess ... that same coach found them again this year. Amazing.
What a dumb point you make extremely badly.
My hopes up? I know we're out of the playoff race lol I'm simply laughing in the face of Brady Poppinga speaking too soon (which he did). I would hope any "true" fan would be very satisfied with a win (35-9) especially when our young guys are the key contributors. I don't think that's being delusional. I think that's being a fan. Denver has a QB problem. So do we. I'm a realist. I've admitted when I've been wrong. What's delusional is thinking a Head Coach with a winning record should be fired before his 2nd year even ends lol Maybe we should give Gase the benefit of the doubt and stop blaming him for Cutler being a bum. He tried to salvage the season and it failed. I'd rather have a Head Coach that does everything in his power to win instead of taking the easy route by doing nothing. Why don't we support the same guy who we all cheered on last year who unfortunately lost the most important player on the team for the year? We're 5-7 not 2-10 lol If we were in the AFC West, we would be a game behind the division leader. Why do all the other coaches get a break when their QBs go down but when ours does and our team sucks, or last year was a fluke, or we don't have talent, or whatever the complaint is that week?
Very well said. Gase obviously isn't perfect (no one is) and definitely SHOULD have addressed the line. Yes, he took a gamble on Cutler to try to salvage the season and it failed. I'm not going to say the line is great or good but only allowing 27 sacks this season isn't horrible. Believe me, I wanted to draft a guard in the first. I was all for it. I was the few who was pissed about a DE but who knows? That could be a smart move in the long run. Heavily criticized? Yes. Fired? Shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. The difference when comparing Tannehill and Cutler is night and day. Cutler limitations are beyond physical. He brings the whole team down. He doesn't care and the one game he did we won by 26 pts with the D playing the best they have all year. At the time, I was a blind optimist but did we really expect Cutler to lead us to the playoffs? Or go 10-6? As Dolphin fans, I don't think canning someone after 2 years is smart Lol Who'd want to coach for us if they knew they could get fired the same season their starting QB tore his ACL? We can't afford to be that picky or dumb. If Gase doesn't address the line and we still suck with Tannehill, then yes, it's time to talk about replacements. If that's how short a leash a 2nd year coach gets then there sure will be a lot of coaches getting fired. Besides Minnesota, which team has overcome losing their starting QB? Texans? Packers? Cards? Colts? Maybe Tannehill deserves more credit than we give him. Or maybe it's a mix between the talent gap (Cutler and RT) and the importance of the position? Time will tell
There you go again. Fall back on RT went down.
You are wrong because you look at one single issue, RT went down. I look at all the decisions since the Pitt playoff game.
It have been stated time and again in this forum. Let me be tiresome and say it again,
Failed to address OL
Excuse Pouncey in preseason, and wish he be fine in regular season
10 mil to sign Culter
Signed out of shape Manualuga
Signed slow many steps JT
Signed still think he is a Steelers Timmon
Failed to noticed OL coach dropping up
Failed to prepare the team in the first drive
Poor play calling
Poorly handled Ajayi.
Blamed players being dumb
I can go on and on.....
If RT went down, but he made all other right decisions, I will certainly give him a break.
But it is not the case. Gase deserves NO break.
Ignorance is bliss.
Losing a top 12 QB won't ruin a season? The reason you hear it so much is because it's true lol The ripple effect of Tannehill going down is clear as day. Look at other squads that lost their Qbs for the year.. What was he gonna do with Pouncey before the season started? He gave Cutler less than average veteran starting QB money trying to salvage a season. If he didn't, people would criticize him for not signing someone else. It's Gases fault Mcmillan tore his ACL? Who would you have signed? Maualuga played pretty good before HE decided to make a dumb decision. Julius Thomas was traded for nothing and might actually stick with us next year lol Timmons finished off his Pitt career with 28 tackles and 2 sacks in his final games and it's not like we broke the bank for him. He's not a babysitter..Foerster is a grown man with his own personal office. Gase isn't the DEA. Poor handling of Ajayi? Drake seems to be doing just fine and we weren't going to resign Jay after next year anyways. Might as well get a 4th now because next year everyone knows they wouldn't have to trade. The players admitted they were lacking in preparation. Gase can't homeschool these guys. They're grown men. Highly paid grown men at that. That's on them for not doing their jobs. So you think he was lying about the players not doing their homework? Playcalling looks poor when it's not being executed. When executed correctly, we seen the results of his "poor" play calling vs Denver. If Gase made all the right decisions, he would have to be god. Nobody's perfect. The fact is with a healthy Tannehill, we went 10-6 and made the playoffs under Gase. QB is the most important position and we have a pretty good one. Losing him was a season changer. Is Gase perfect? Of course not. You expected him to make all the right decisions? Not even Belichick makes the right decision every time.
Disagree on most of your points, but an intelligent reply.
I am not saying to can him now. He deserves one more year, except if Ross can talk Jim H out of Michigan.
You're right. That's because they do still respect the coach. The players understood from the start that this season changed on August 3rd, 2017. If Gase lost the team, he must have found them on Sunday lol Even if the Broncos suck, who are we to not take a win as a win especially winning by 26 with the biggest contributions coming from our young guys (Tunsil, Howard, Drake, McCain). The Broncos did prove how inept QB play can make a whole team look terrible. Sounds like the 2017 Miami Dolphins lol
Thanks and fair enough brother. My buddy is a huge Michigan fan and Alum. He was saying that Michigan is concerned with his win loss record against top teams. Like you said, Gase deserves another year. If he fails, come on down Harbaugh lol Harbaughs are slimy whiners (IMO) but definitely can coach a football team. In the end, we all just want to win on a consistent basis. Years of 8-8 or 9-7 need to be in the past and stay there. PHINS UP!!!
Aqua, I usually look for your posts, but this one is just bad:
$10m for Cutler was a hail marry that just didn't work. There weren't many other good choices out there and when you post your opposing view, remember to only look at the data/players that were available at the time the decision was made.
Failed to address the OL, signed out of shape/to slow/still thinks he's a steeler/blah blah: while he clearly gets a voice, it's only a voice in the FO process. This is a team that thought last years run to the playoff was for real rather than just a lot of things coming together at the right time. It IS a black mark on the entire FO, but it's a story we've seen time and time again from all to many middle of the road teams trying to build on a success
Poor play calling: it looks that way on the field. How much is bad play calling vs. bad execution?
Poorly handling Ajayi: none of us know what was going on behind closed doors or in team-only environments. But one *has to think* it was a pretty big deal for the team to move on like that. Couple that with, as good good as Ajayi is, he really didn't fit the system Gase wants to run. I will give you that good coaches adjust to the players they have rather than the players they want, but when you say that, you also have to have a core nucleus of a good team. We don't have that (at least not with the list of players on IR)
He took a lot of heat before. It wasn't getting any results. While Denver is a bad team, that was a can of *** wooping and that suggests he might be finding a way to some of the players.
There are so many holes in your post, let me just pick a few.
a) if Cutler move worked out, you and many posters will be first to praise him for a great signing, yes? Now it didn't work, he is excused. Can;t have it both ways bro.
d) failed to address the OL. it is well documented that Gase thought the OL would get by, and he wanted to set priority on different areas. Newspaper and local radio has said that multiple times. It is beyond dispute.
c) JT, Manaluga, Timmons; FO technically drew up contracts for players to sign. You and I don't know how much influence Gase had in those signings. From your view, it is all FO. I my view, since the success last season, Gase has gained an influential voice in personnel selection. I don't believe for a minute that FO would issue the contracts without the 'go-ahead' from Gase.
d) poor play calling vs poor execution. Good play calling is to call plays to best utilize the talents you have on hand. Gase did the opposite. If you blame players for poor execution, then in theory, if every plays is executed to its perfection then every drive should result on TD. Sure there is poor execution, it is a result of neglecting OL talents and combine with plays not suitable with players on the field. Case in point, bubble screen. If bubble screen is executed perfectly, it should gain 5-10 yds every time. But we don't have personnel to do it, yet Gase keep calling it.
e) Ajayi, now we know he is kind of prima donna since last season. Gase should have laid down the rule during the off season and don;t let the situation got out of hand. Or at least keep it it check til getting a better deal come off season. Yes, you and I don't have the access to know what was going on behind closed door. But you cannot say that Shula, Belichick or Tomlin would handled the same way or just as badly as Gase did.
Please re-evaluate the following:
Failed to address OL -Didn't we draft a guard (Asiata) and bring in a guard/center (Larson)?
Hasn't JT started to perform a lot better?
Timmons may be a disappointment, but wasn't his contract altered so we can dump him after this hear at no cost as a result?
Failed to noticed OL coach dropping up - True. Is this kind of addiction easily hidden or easy to spot?
Failed to prepare the team in the first drive - Easy to say but hard to prove. I think the team failed the organization and themselves.
Poor play calling - Maybe, but more likely a limitation due to a pre-existing roster that can't comprehend a playbook, thus limiting the plays that can work without regard of their predictability. They worked well with Cutler and our questionable OL against a good Denver secondary. Lots of room for subjectivity here, but its valueless unless it can address all this years known performances - good and bad.
Poorly handled Ajayi. - I disagree. We are currently doing better at RB without him, in large part due to improved RB blocking, along with better pass catching. As to the way it was handled; Gase showed more patience than I would have. I disagree that player performance outweighs team attitude. I took note that in Gases' statements he said, almost venomously, he was done compromising with anyone. This tells me he tried to work with a player who tried to use that courtesy improperly.
Blamed players being dumb - After a year and a half, he has the right to tell the media what the problem is. By the way, it was some of the playing positions he called out.
I can go on and on.....- Why don't you consider what I have just responded with first?
Failed to address OL
a) I'm not excusing it. I'm understanding it. Personally, I thought it was a long shot but interesting idea, right up until game 2 or so, where it looked pretty clear to an arm chair QB and GM like myself that it was a failed plan. In all honesty, I didn't like anyone else that was available a the time any better (and I'm including Kap).
b (your first d)). So? There is a hell of a lot of reporting on stuff a coach or FO wants the world to hear -- for motivation, for negotiating position, and for CYA. Even if Gase was totally onboard, he's still just one voice and not the voice that actually owns the decision (in theory).
c) It's not my view that it's all FO. It's my view that none of us here know how much it was Gase, Gase publicly putting a smily face on a team decision, etc. See my concluding comment.
d (second d)) You are correct that good play calling is using the talents in front of you as best you can. And what we saw on the field says there was some really bad play calling. If you have one or two players playing below expectations (a backup, rookie, hurt, outside football distractions, etc.) you can cover for that. But what if you have 5 or 8 players that aren't cutting it (for whatever reason) -- exactly how much do you expect from your coach? And lets not forget that we have 2 QBs that don't belong on the field for more than a couple of snaps a game which kinda ties your hands behind your back on adjustments.
e) even BB fires players mid-season and the patriots are well known for being THE 'my way or highway' team (and god knows, they have earned that right). We s
We disagree with just how much accountability Gase owns in this mess of a season, not that it's a mess. I believe last year shows he's got some coaching chops. The jury is still out if he has what it takes to be a really good NFL coach. Who knows if Gase will grow into the roll here, on his second shot down the road, or if he'll even get a second shot if he fails here? Let's not forget that BB wasn't the BB we hold up as an all time grate on his first shot at HC -- now the question is: how much did he learn from the failure and how much was the situation.
Almost everyone here holds Shula in high regard (as they should), but where are are the super bowl wins WITH marino as his QB? How many years after drafting Marino would have given Shula based on the above criteria? We had some bad drafts, players that held promise that didn't work out, players that got sent packing because they didn't live up to his expectations, and a mortgage it all season or two with free agents -- basically what we see from most coaches and teams with the notable exception of the last decade out of the patriots.
Thank you for the easy question.
Counting on a fifth round rookie to fix the OL? You called that addressing?
Laren, journeyman OL. Let go by NE, claimed off waiver by TB, then landed on Cardinals, Bears and now the dolphins. All five spots in the OL were below average. Larens may ( again MAY ) upgrade one spot to average. And you were satisfied?
Now you are on the clock.
Yes, there have been a lot of decisions that have been made since the end of last season. If you want to point at one mistake it was thinking that this team actually had more talent then it did. Not sure if that is on Gase or the President and GM who are in charge of player acquisition, but the fact that the team overachieved considerably last season gave everyone a false assumption that the team was talented. This type of season could be good as it will allow us to purge some players who just don't fit what Gase is doing.
I've seen this mentioned before...actually a few times and I still wonder if this is on a scouting department and front office that has been essentially using the same group for the last 5 plus years who have never been able to scout and identify a lineman whether it was in the draft or through free agency. I don't think anyone can speak for sure as to what the mindset of the draft room was or even the conversation that occurred between the coach and GM about who this team should take in the draft or add in free agency. I won't deny the o-line has been a sore spot for the team, but it has been that way for a long time. We currently have 3 first rounders and all are average or below. When you have a scouting department that commits those types of resources to a position unit and still ****s it up you are going to be behind, especially when you are trying to patch holes in a defense that surrendered the most yards in team history. As much as it is easy to say "just grab good guards" it doesn't always work out. You need to have the money or the draft position to do so and you have to have a willingness of the player to want to come to Miami.
Pouncey is part of those considerable resources already committed to the aforementioned position group. He has recently signed a pretty solid contract with the team. As far as allowing him to take the preseason off, seems like a smart way to handle a player that you are forced to count on because of a bad contract handed out by the previous group. He actually did a lot to make sure Pouncey could go during the season as from what has been described his injury has sort of a limited timetable to play. In fact, I would call this pretty good coaching and know how to handle a veteran player like an adult.
Your star QB goes down and you need to make a move to look like you are going to salvage the season. Of the QB available that would not cost this team a draft pick Cutler was the best choice. We know what Moore can do and Gase I am sure has a much better understanding of what Moore can do as he spends more time with him than any of us. At the point in the preseason when Tannehill injured himself, we needed to have a guy come in and know the offense day one. Desperate move to try to still give this team a chance...10 million is a lot, but still better then dumping future picks on a player.
Again, front office move and until he made a dumb mistake (not sure how anyone can pin that on a coach or organization) was actually not awful.
Well, we traded for JT as a way to get something for Albert who we were planning on dumping.
Not sure anyone could have predicted Timmons would go AWOL week 2/1. Again, not sure how you can blame a coach for a move the front office made as far as signing.
It happens more often then you think. Many people you interact with especially those you know are already going through personal issues could very well be doing drugs. Like most men, he most likely didn't want to pry into an employees personal business as that is typically not an appropriate way to act.
Yeah, I do think this is an issue, but he is a young coach still learning it also doesn't help to have piss poor QB play.
I know you haven't watched the game recently, but the play calling has been excellent. WR are consistently open, just unfortunate that we don't have Tannehill to hit them. With what we are using at QB, he is doing a pretty impressive job hiding the weaknesses in their game.
I won't elaborate on this, but there is solid information in the VIP that will give you insight as to what went down.
If the shoe fits...we do have a pretty "dumb" roster although he discussed more players needing to take their work home and get a better understanding of the playbook. The players are dumb has come from this forum and its posters.
That is up to you, but with how everything has played out this season with injuries, no bye week, team travel, team displacement...I don't think it is all that shocking we are in the position we are in. I think the Bucs who many thought would contend for a wildcard spot has seen the same results and have had to actually contend with less as they didn't need to travel all the way to London. The game being moved to the teams bye weeks essentailly set both teams up to fail. A 16 game season, plus preseason is too much for the human body especially without a physical and mental break partway through the season.
Ross will give Gase another year, he would look like a fool if he canned him one year away from making the playoffs. When it happens, this has to be the time Ross goes with a HC with NFL HCing experience. Jim Harbaugh would fit into many areas Ross wants.
Gase has executive decision making on all roster moves. It's in his contract. If he deferred, that's his own fault for trusting a proven garbage front office. Enough making excuses for the guy. Even if you excuse EVERYTHING, he's done absolutely nothing right. What can he hang his hat on? Squeaking by several average to below average opponents in a season of luck to make and subsequently get squashed in the playoffs? I mean, 10 wins is 10 wins, sure. But combine it with this season which has not seen an improvement in any one area, you HAVE to question how those 10 wins came to be rather than just accept that Gase was the reason. Philbin got 8 wins, Sparano got 11 wins. Are these guys we trust? Why or why not? Give me someone that doesn't need a dozen and a half excuses to explain why the team is a total train wreck.
I tried above, but your post had more detail and is better thought out and more clearly laid out.
From what I recall, he has decision making ability on roster making decisions when it's the final 53. Tannenbaum in charge of free agents, Grier the draft.
Splitting hairs. The guys on the roster are Gase's guys.
"He’s making the commitment on determining what the 53 [man-roster] is and who the players are -- he’s making that decision," Ross explained. "So it’s not like, 'this is the general manager's player or that [coach's] player.' You’ve heard that in the past with the organization. That’s not going to exist."
Free agents signings and all personel moves were approved by Gase. It's fact. FO had input or suggested ideas, and they can originat talks. But at the end, Gase can veto or sign-on. Can't blame all the bad personal moves on FO.
He is the HC. The bucks stop at his office.
Any proof of this?
I have some proof to the contrary...
So here it explains that Gase only has a say over who makes the team and who plays and not about who is signed...
Here is the review of the front office from Rotoworld...
From that article...
It's really not splitting hairs. Let's say Gase wants player X in the draft, but Grier gets him player Y. OK, he'll keep him on the roster if he's better than player Z, but that doesn't mean he's his guy.
Heaven forbid you give proof that doesn't agree with the agenda here People will claim it's "fact" without giving any proof whatsoever that Gase is in charge of everything.
I wouldn't even say it is definitive proof, but at least it is a reference to some information. The VIP section even has better information, but that we will leave for the privileged few (or anyone with an extra 20).
So you think that if Gase said "I want player X" that Grier would just ignore him and Ross would be ok with that given the article I posted? Good one.
Well, I did give proof. If you think the front office is just keeping Gase outside the door and making moves on their own, then you're confused. Having final say means he has final say. They aren't getting players he doesn't want.
You are talking about two different things where the coach would be required to have a player make the 53 because the GM really wanted that player on the team as opposed to making the decisions on free agents and signings.
To add another important piece from that article...
Nope. Your "proof" was that he has final say over the 53 man roster. I'm not denying that. However, what I am stating is that it is not his final say as to who is brought in during the off season.
Do they get players he doesn't want? I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't always get him who he wants though.
Except that's what final say means. THEY DO NOT SIGN PLAYERS WITHOUT HIS APPROVAL.
He might let them do whatever. But the quote I posted is the key. "There is no GM's players....he has final say."
OK, so you just ignore the part in the exact same article about Grier being in charge of who they bring in. And you can cap lock stuff all you want.
Maybe you should join VIP. Just a hint, you might learn something.
Getting him who he wants and getting someone he doesn't want are 2 different things.
He could WANT Tom Brady. Doesn't mean they'll go get him. But they're not about to sign Timmons while Gase is going "no! I don't want that guy!"
I'm not saying that. I mean, there's more information there about all this stuff. That's all I'm saying. I joined it recently. And it was a fabulous decision.