Brady Poppinga: Gase might have lost the team

[NY8123]

Then I say lose the team. I am tired of player excuses in the NFL. The turnover rate of coaches is just mind numbing at this point and if a team quits on their coach.....just do what Buffalo did and get rid of the team. Time to jettison players for whatever you can get.

 

[Trade Viper]

I see many people asking/speaking about why the Dolphins underperform, I find myself confused as to why it is difficult to understand.

Any organization requires discipline, order and a vision. This all originates from the management, not the EMPLOYEES. Unfortunately the Dolphin hierarchy is not built for one person to have authority and thus responsibility for the three requirements.

However, true respect is earned, people respect Shula, why, well Shula. Belichick, of course, rings on fingers. The way a coach earns respect is to instill "discipline, order and vision", instill, is not force. It makes me laugh to see Corporate Psychopathic Managers complaining about not being able to find or keep quality people, when they are the ones driving the best away.

True Respect is what makes a player play through injury, for the team and their coach. Discipline and order do not do this. So the question is what in Adam Gases recent history, since RT going down, would indicate he is worthy of anyone's respect. This is truly a case of the Fans and Players knowing better than the coach. Jay Cutler, really, how can anyone respect that, are you serious, this one move has made the Dolphins a laughing stock, and who's decision was it, Adam Gases. Sheesh, when this signing was made my Nephew calls me up and say's, "Hey Tio, JAY CUTLER, hahahahahahaha, REALLY?????"

NFL players are not that rare, it is a fallacy that there are too few, look at the patriots. Are they superior athletes? NO they are not, they however all conform to a single vision "DO YOUR JOB" as defined by the management. Don't do it, expect corrective actions to be taken, no if, no butts.

NFL players are not that rare???? Evidently they are, well with Gase picking up Kiki Dee, off of two knee injuries, oh and did I mention Jay Cutler. Or might it be that the Patriots Coach and FO can evaluate talent better than the godlike Gase????

Example, do you think SHULA gave a damn what any single player thought? Johnson? Parcells? Walsh? Gibbs? Lombardi? Noll? Bellichek?. This is the ugly truth of humanity and why true leadership is a lonely place. Until this person is empowered to do what is needed, with a true turnaround schedule, then the cancer that destroys most of the nfl teams will continue.

If you think that Coach Shula did not listen to Marino, and Belichick doesn't listen to Brady, well you are mistaken. At some point between coach and QB there is no longer a coach and player, there is a partnership, oh and there is no doubt in my mind that Gase would had traded Ray Lewis, what a brilliant idea that would have been. (shhhhhhh, I actually asked Coach Shula this question)

"PUNISH THE PLAYERS, there are many ways of doing this (running gassers, undesirable positions, suspensions, voiding contracts, waiving players, if they don't like this, IT DOESN'T MATTER. They are worker bees, worker bees should not set policy nor have an opinion in the operation of any organization (unless if asked, and this should be done RARELY and only to a select few.) NFL players are not that rare, it is a fallacy that there are too few, look at the patriots. Are they superior athletes? NO they are not, they however all conform to a single vision "DO YOUR JOB" as defined by the management. Don't do it, expect corrective actions to be taken, no if, no butts."

Yesss, that will work, no doubt.

When a manager/coach is incompetent, nobody wants to work for them or put forth the effort, so logically, if you want out, you ask for a trade, some folks can't handle that, so they become disruptive to the point a trade is without doubt the only solution. For me, there were two times I walked out of a job with no notice where the Manager was a Psychopath, and then not return their calls, it was great, in football you really can't do that, so some guys find other alternatives.

By the way Wes Welker has a SB ring, and there is a high probability that Jay Ajayi will get one also. So there is that.

The Ever Having No Respect For Linear Thinkers Under 140 VIPER

 

[hoops]

He has more access than you and me.

Access to what? The Vikings locker room

 

[Trade Viper]

Access to what? The Vikings locker room

Yeah who knows, what I saw, was a team playing hard without cohesion, direction, or logic. Losing the lockeroom is a big statement, I think what we will see this week will tell the tale. But as far as Brady P is concerned, his guess is as good as anyones.

The Ever Wondering At Media VIPER

 

[BlueFin]

I fully believe so, yes. If Cutler had come in and played on fire, then I think the team might've rallied behind the decision. But when you've got a hard worker and team guy like Matt Moore, it was a slap in the face to everyone to shell out $10 mill for a guy that was on the couch and even in his prime was as good as Moore ever was.

Ridiculous....Moore is a backup and only decent in that role.

With Tannehill out....swinging for the fences with Cutler was worth a shot.

Matt Moore is not leading this to anything matters...obviously neither is Cutler....but we it was a possibility.

Frankly, this team is far from having all the pieces in place...and lacking a bonafide starter only makes it worse.

Get rid of the quitters....and continue building a real team next year.

 

[Mrmeeseeks]

Ridiculous....Moore is a backup and only decent in that role.

With Tannehill out....swinging for the fences with Cutler was worth a shot.

Matt Moore is not leading this to anything matters...obviously neither is Cutler....but we it was a possibility.

Frankly, this team is far from having all the pieces in place...and lacking a bonafide starter only makes it worse.

Get rid of the quitters....and continue building a real team next year.

I guess you don't believe in the intangibles of leadership.

 

[phintim]

Well this time next year Gase will either have the locker room in order or if we are still looking this pathetic and disorganized in the games as we are now he will be our the door. Making the QB look good was his job now his job is to win games and if he can't do that Ryann Tannehills sucess won't do him any good.

 

[<O>]

Well this time next year Gase will either have the locker room in order or if we are still looking this pathetic and disorganized in the games as we are now he will be our the door. Making the QB look good was his job now his job is to win games and if he can't do that Ryann Tannehills sucess won't do him any good.

And that's probably the central problem of this season -- the inability to place blame on Cutler where it belongs, due to Gase's need to preserve his image as a "quarterback whisperer."

If you petition the front office to sign a guy, how can you be the quarterback whisperer we hired you to be if he's your guy and you can't coax even average play out him?

It must be someone else's fault. In this case it's the other players.

This is why it's the locker room against Gase, and this is why he's lost the team.

 

[fin415]

If you think that Coach Shula did not listen to Marino, and Belichick doesn't listen to Brady, well you are mistaken. At some point between coach and QB there is no longer a coach and player, there is a partnership, oh and there is no doubt in my mind that Gase would had traded Ray Lewis, what a brilliant idea that would have been. (shhhhhhh, I actually asked Coach Shula this question)

"PUNISH THE PLAYERS, there are many ways of doing this (running gassers, undesirable positions, suspensions, voiding contracts, waiving players, if they don't like this, IT DOESN'T MATTER. They are worker bees, worker bees should not set policy nor have an opinion in the operation of any organization (unless if asked, and this should be done RARELY and only to a select few.) NFL players are not that rare, it is a fallacy that there are too few, look at the patriots. Are they superior athletes? NO they are not, they however all conform to a single vision "DO YOUR JOB" as defined by the management. Don't do it, expect corrective actions to be taken, no if, no butts."

Yesss, that will work, no doubt.

When a manager/coach is incompetent, nobody wants to work for them or put forth the effort, so logically, if you want out, you ask for a trade, some folks can't handle that, so they become disruptive to the point a trade is without doubt the only solution. For me, there were two times I walked out of a job with no notice where the Manager was a Psychopath, and then not return their calls, it was great, in football you really can't do that, so some guys find other alternatives.

By the way Wes Welker has a SB ring, and there is a high probability that Jay Ajayi will get one also. So there is that.

The Ever Having No Respect For Linear Thinkers Under 140 VIPER

And who is our Marino or Lewis on this team? There are only a handful of players in the league that get treated that way: a top X (7ish?) QB and that once in a generation transcendent player like a Lewis. Everyone else is one or two bad interactions with a coach / blown big play away from being benched, traded, or cut.

When nothing is working, as a (business) manager or coach, you look for ways to get peoples attention. We keep blaming Gase for all the problems on the field -- and since he's the head coach, we should. But we don't know how much is bad coaching, reduced playbooks because the players can't handle the playbook as an individual or unit, how many players are freelancing for stats (for future contacts or existing contact play fors) or just trying so hard because they really care that they are blowing their assignments instead, playing hurt (or more hurt than they have told anyone), OR young coaches that still haven't figured out how to coach a team effectively. What we do know is killing us: our team sucks and still has a ton of holes.

What we also know is at least one player, one of our most effective, was blowing things up (not the good way) on and off the field enough that they we willing to trade him mid-season for very little. If you think that was just for show or a coach being petulant (and risking a possibly once in a lifetime job), you're delusional.

When you are a star or there are so many jobs available, you can walk out on a job. When you are a professional, you find ways to make things work. When you are a professional in a world where there are a fixed number of jobs and a LOT more people than available positions, you're taking one hell of a risk by behaving badly. That being said, you do have an agent who's job it is to play 13 demential chess and figure out if the stars have a chance of aligning such that you'll have a shot of landing another gig. If you are more or less in the top 25%/35% of your position, the answer is almost always going to be yes. After that, it's one hell of a risk.

If you think the coaches and GMs don't talk (a.k.a. references) and that lesser skilled / older players can't play themselves out of town, you're watching a different league than I am.

 

[fin415]

I guess you don't believe in the intangibles of leadership.

There is nothing Moore can do as a leader that would make the team play any better. He could be George Patton and it wouldn't change a thing. He's an 11 year backup because of his limitations -- not one team wanted him enough to make any kind of an offer when he was a free agent. What do you know that every other team in the NFL apparently missed?

On paper, Cutler should have been better. In practice, they both are lacking, just for very different reasons.

 

[Mrmeeseeks]

There is nothing Moore can do as a leader that would make the team play any better. He could be George Patton and it wouldn't change a thing. He's an 11 year backup because of his limitations -- not one team wanted him enough to make any kind of an offer when he was a free agent. What do you know that every other team in the NFL apparently missed?

On paper, Cutler should have been better. In practice, they both are lacking, just for very different reasons.

Not Moore. Gase. We're not dealing with Madden players where you can just pick up a player with a better rating and all the players are unaffected. Tannehill went down with Moore as the backup. Moore had been with the team, was respected and played with a lot of heart regardless of how average he was.
So what does Gase do? Throws $10 million at an uninspiring guy who does not play with any fire and isn't enough of an upgrade to justify throwing a great teammate under the bus. Imagine your favorite coworker is passed over for some outsider who isn't much better at the job but is making twice as much now. Would you trust management? Of course not. That's bad leadership. It's nepotism over team.

 

[Mrmeeseeks]

Fwiw, Wes Welker does not have a super bowl ring. He's played in 3, though. A better argument is that 12 former Dolphins played for that 16-0 Patriots team. And the list of contributors for New England that never had a shot in Miami is extensive. Coaches that coach get the most out of players. Gase can't coach.

 

[Dolphins81]

Fwiw, Wes Welker does not have a super bowl ring. He's played in 3, though. A better argument is that 12 former Dolphins played for that 16-0 Patriots team. And the list of contributors for New England that never had a shot in Miami is extensive. Coaches that coach get the most out of players. Gase can't coach.

It’s almost like we are the Patriots farm team.

 

[fin415]

Not Moore. Gase. We're not dealing with Madden players where you can just pick up a player with a better rating and all the players are unaffected. Tannehill went down with Moore as the backup. Moore had been with the team, was respected and played with a lot of heart regardless of how average he was.
So what does Gase do? Throws $10 million at an uninspiring guy who does not play with any fire and isn't enough of an upgrade to justify throwing a great teammate under the bus. Imagine your favorite coworker is passed over for some outsider who isn't much better at the job but is making twice as much now. Would you trust management? Of course not. That's bad leadership. It's nepotism over team.

I don't think nepotism means what you think it does... (yes, I know the point you were going for and it's somewhat fair, but see my comments) ;-)

1. Very few teams have 2 legit players at QB on their rosters. I would guess thats because A) good DB's are rare with 1/2 the starters in this league not really being that good; B) every #2 thinks they should be the #1; C) eventual cap issues; D) if they are even close to having the possibility of being a #1, see comment 1A -- at least 15 teams would make a run at them every year.
2. So, without a QB on the team that's good enough to really start once RT went down, we have to look at the players available. Since we're not knee deep in draft picks to throw away and because the talent available via draft picks we could use didn't rise to that value in the FO's opinion (one I agree with), we move onto the unemployed.
3. Ignoring all the after-the-fact arm chair GM'ing, I'm going with the reason everyone was unemployed (see 1A) is because the all had some significant flaws.

So, in a world with no good solutions, what kind of risk mitigations are available? The best one out there is working with a player that you know well and who already knows your playbook, someone you felt you could successfully coach up because *you believed you already pulled it off once before*. In theory, you know the players strengths and weaknesses walking in the door at a level far better than watching tape and calling peers for references. Thats as close as you can get to your Madden plug and play player in the real world. What you don't know is how much the time away from the game and/or Father Time will hurt, an interesting year-in and year-out risk in the NFL.

You can say it was a bad decision, and in hindsight, it clearly was. But the Bronco's made it work with an long past anything near his prime Payton Manning with half an arm. For that one year, they are geniuses because it worked and they won the big game. But if it didn't work, we'd be having this conversation. Gase looks bad because we're losing. Moore has proven that he doesn't offer anything better than Cutler, just different kinds of bad, and clearly, some think its actually a worse kind of bad. The $10M cap hit was worth the risk if it had paid off and not so bad because it's a one-and-done contract.

"Throwing a great teammate under the bus" -- so, now you're ok with losing to not hurt a fellow teammates feelings? How does a coach actually coach in that environment? What do you say the all the players who have bonuses tied to performance in their contacts? "I know you could have caught another 10 balls this year, and I know that you would have made an extra $3,000,000, but Matt really worked hard all those years as a backup". I'm starting to wonder if people raising that argument aren't employment/contract lawyers really pushing for a lifetime gig.

A real teammate understands that it's the coaches and GMs job to make the best decisions they can, even if they don't agree with them, and just as it's their job to play their best even when they are losing. They should do this just because that's what professionals do, but if for no other reason to be a *great* teammate and help everyone get to their contact escalators. I've never been a fan of Eli Manning, but my respect for him went up off the chart this last week. He knows what it means to be a great teammate -- he didn't take up the offer to keep starting just to pad his stats, he told the team to get their business done right. And the reports and coming in that he's still in the building early and working with the other QBs to make sure they get all the help he can offer. Now that's a great teammate and a real professional.

 

[coalesce]

Fwiw, Wes Welker does not have a super bowl ring. He's played in 3, though. A better argument is that 12 former Dolphins played for that 16-0 Patriots team. And the list of contributors for New England that never had a shot in Miami is extensive. Coaches that coach get the most out of players. Gase can't coach.

And Gase had nothing to do with those twelve players, although your point is indeed a valid one. Talent evaluaion has been a bugaboo for this team for decades. Eddie Blake. Billy Milner. Jackie Shipp. Jay Brophy. George Little. John Avery. I’d continue to list names, but I don’t want to run my phone’s battery all the way to zero.