C Ted Karras speaking on the snap issues/Should we resign or draft a replacement?

royalshank

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We are specifically talking about Center with a LG who isn't a rookie himself either.

I understand the youth part of it, but let's see in January where the interior 3 stand. No need to rush these things based off of 9 games and a meaty part of the schedule to come.

Just do not see the emergency right now, now if we want to talk about Ogbah, he gives me another 2 sacks the next few weeks....I extend him. Period.
Ogbah has been awesome. I don’t recall him in KC - he obviously played. Just don’t recall him being a top lineman there?
 

DolfanDuBbZ~

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8 centers taken in the first round in the last 20 years. LMFAO

The highest being Mike Pouncey taken by guess who ? Also making your argument BS

Most here understood Mike would have been a better guard.

Cody Whitehair was drafted has a RG, pushed inside due to injury. Played at a very high level.

You are concentrating just on Center, where as I point to the whole interior. But if a blue chip center is there.....you take it.

3yards and a cloud of dust turn into 5.
 

DolfanDuBbZ~

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Ogbah has been awesome. I don’t recall him in KC - he obviously played. Just don’t recall him being a top lineman there?


He really didn't shine. That line depends on Jones. He makes them lethal when he is healthy.

Ogbah, through production and versatility, along with entering his prime......
 

Feverdream

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I concur that Humphrey is the one Center worth considering in the 1st round of this draft.
I am, however, not convinced that it's a slam dunk choice. He might slide into the 2nd... I'd be happy to take him @ 2a if we've already taken a WR.
 

Digital

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Honestly, you guys are FUNNY!

We've had DECADES of horrendous OL play, including drafting a center the HIGHEST EVER DRAFTED in Mike Pouncey, who played well but only had one truly elite season, and spent most of his time bouncing on and off of the IR. He cost a boatload of money and our OL play was NEVER as good as it has been this year. We tried a lot of different centers, but seldom did we have a good OL for very long. Someone was always injured, and our replacements were either forgettable or joke-worthy.

Now we bring in two new veteran OL, starter-salary Ereck Flowers who has played well, and backup-salary Ted Karras who has played very freaking well!!!! He has greatly outperformed his salary and there are 31 other teams salivating the prospect of getting him for anything even remotely close to that number. But, they know he'll command double or more after this year. The guy is consistently making the right calls for our OL, and a big part of why this OL has SUCCEEDED. But we're Dolfans right ... so at the earliest sign of competency let's act like we're able to plug in any dumbazz UDFA and make it work ... because we simply have the shortest memories in history.

Honestly, how the F can anyone have endured the decades of horrible OL play and be criticizing Ted Karras for having one solid game with 2 snap errors and think we can upgrade? Who is the upgrade gonna be ... Dallas Thomas? Seriously people .... freaking appreciate what we've got. We're only halfway into our first season of OL competency in recent memory ... is this really the time to break up the band for no reason?
 

DolfanDuBbZ~

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Honestly, you guys are FUNNY!

We've had DECADES of horrendous OL play, including drafting a center the HIGHEST EVER DRAFTED in Mike Pouncey, who played well but only had one truly elite season, and spent most of his time bouncing on and off of the IR. He cost a boatload of money and our OL play was NEVER as good as it has been this year. We tried a lot of different centers, but seldom did we have a good OL for very long. Someone was always injured, and our replacements were either forgettable or joke-worthy.

Now we bring in two new veteran OL, starter-salary Ereck Flowers who has played well, and backup-salary Ted Karras who has played very freaking well!!!! He has greatly outperformed his salary and there are 31 other teams salivating the prospect of getting him for anything even remotely close to that number. But, they know he'll command double or more after this year. The guy is consistently making the right calls for our OL, and a big part of why this OL has SUCCEEDED. But we're Dolfans right ... so at the earliest sign of competency let's act like we're able to plug in any dumbazz UDFA and make it work ... because we simply have the shortest memories in history.

Honestly, how the F can anyone have endured the decades of horrible OL play and be criticizing Ted Karras for having one solid game with 2 snap errors and think we can upgrade? Who is the upgrade gonna be ... Dallas Thomas? Seriously people .... freaking appreciate what we've got. We're only halfway into our first season of OL competency in recent memory ... is this really the time to break up the band for no reason?


I believe you wait until after the season, before committing.

Can the interior of the oline use a upgrade today? Would Center be one of them going into December and January?

I guess we will see together.
 

MP-Omnis

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Honestly, you guys are FUNNY!

We've had DECADES of horrendous OL play, including drafting a center the HIGHEST EVER DRAFTED in Mike Pouncey, who played well but only had one truly elite season, and spent most of his time bouncing on and off of the IR. He cost a boatload of money and our OL play was NEVER as good as it has been this year. We tried a lot of different centers, but seldom did we have a good OL for very long. Someone was always injured, and our replacements were either forgettable or joke-worthy.

Honestly, how the F can anyone have endured the decades of horrible OL play and be criticizing Ted Karras for having one solid game with 2 snap errors and think we can upgrade? Who is the upgrade gonna be

Bro, you're freaking out about the thought of drafting a BLUE CHIP center late in the 1st round? Ted Karras is great but my dude is on a 1 year deal. The FO can leverage the crap out of him as long as Creed Humphrey is still on the board. He would be smart to sign an extension before the end of the season. Creed is not Mike Pouncey, and this is not a Mike Pouncey situation. We have our franchise QB, and we're not drafting a center while the rest of the team is garbage.

Dallas went out and got the best o-line in the league, turned their rookie RB and UDFA QB into cereal box superstars. These are the kinds of drafts where it's OK to take the can't-miss prospect.
 

Digital

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I believe you wait until after the season, before committing.

Can the interior of the oline use a upgrade today? Would Center be one of them going into December and January?

I guess we will see together.
That's a fair suggestion. In fact it's the one the Dolphins almost always make. Of course, when we wait that long, almost every time the agent has gotten into the head of the FA and he knows there will be a boatload of money waiting for him, so he hits FA and almost never re-signs. If the player does poorly, sure, you can resign him then .... and we don't. So the end result of htat is that our window to resign him for a reasonable fee is now. Either we strike while we are in that window--and can offer him more money NOW and more security for the future--or we relegate ourselves to losing him. If we don't lose him, we're definitely relegating ourselves to overpaying for a high priced FA.

IMHO, the time to make the decision is now. If we wait, either we overpay or we lose him. A decision to wait is a decision to move on from him. A decision to make an offer now is a decision to gamble on him for the future. When we brought him in for such a sub-market salary it was with the promise that if he proved himself, we would give him a long term contract. He has proven himself. Now we make good on our promise or we risk not getting low priced one-year prove it contracts in the future.

All of this points me decidedly towards offering him a long term contract now. It's risky ... but if we don't do it now, we're definitely facing losing him or overpaying to keep him.
 

Digital

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Bro, you're freaking out about the thought of drafting a BLUE CHIP center late in the 1st round? Ted Karras is great but my dude is on a 1 year deal. The FO can leverage the crap out of him as long as Creed Humphrey is still on the board. He would be smart to sign an extension before the end of the season. Creed is not Mike Pouncey, and this is not a Mike Pouncey situation. We have our franchise QB, and we're not drafting a center while the rest of the team is garbage.

Dallas went out and got the best o-line in the league, turned their rookie RB and UDFA QB into cereal box superstars. These are the kinds of drafts where it's OK to take the can't-miss prospect.
I'm not freaking out about drafting a blue chip center. I was in favor of drafting one in 2020. But from a contracting standpoint, to let a quality guy walk for no reason is not wise. How many guys have we paid that didn't work out? How many guys did we draft that didn't work out. Karras is working out here in Miami for us, and at a position we have had a horrible time trying to fill.

Our QB woes are well documented. We had the GOAT in Marino. After Marino we simply never found prolonged success. Sure, we had a good year or so from the Chad Penningtons or a promising stretch with the Tannehills, but no dominant QB, and no consistently good offenses. Across the entire OL we've had individual players who had exceptional years or promising stretches, but our OL was almost always subpar not very long afterwards. We finally have an OL Coach getting these guys to perform. We finally have a C who is consistently making the right line calls. We finally have a pair of competent tackles. We finally have a pair of guards who aren't turnstiles. We finally have an OL that stays relatively healthy. We finally have an OL in-tact enough to cover when we sub in a few replacement guys. We finally have an OL playing with chemistry as a cohesive unit.

I'm not against adding talent. But throwing what's working into the dumpster seems like folly to me. This is the first time in forever we've been able to feel good about the OL rather than fearing the inevitable injury that will destroy that chemistry. I'm just saying, let's not trash it because we're arrogantly thinking we can plug in any highly rated prospect. Keep the guys who are working, and draft the talented kids to challenge them.
 

DolfanDuBbZ~

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That's a fair suggestion. In fact it's the one the Dolphins almost always make. Of course, when we wait that long, almost every time the agent has gotten into the head of the FA and he knows there will be a boatload of money waiting for him, so he hits FA and almost never re-signs. If the player does poorly, sure, you can resign him then .... and we don't. So the end result of htat is that our window to resign him for a reasonable fee is now. Either we strike while we are in that window--and can offer him more money NOW and more security for the future--or we relegate ourselves to losing him. If we don't lose him, we're definitely relegating ourselves to overpaying for a high priced FA.

IMHO, the time to make the decision is now. If we wait, either we overpay or we lose him. A decision to wait is a decision to move on from him. A decision to make an offer now is a decision to gamble on him for the future. When we brought him in for such a sub-market salary it was with the promise that if he proved himself, we would give him a long term contract. He has proven himself. Now we make good on our promise or we risk not getting low priced one-year prove it contracts in the future.

All of this points me decidedly towards offering him a long term contract now. It's risky ... but if we don't do it now, we're definitely facing losing him or overpaying to keep him.


Always make?

With whom on the offensive line has this been a issue with? If anything Davie fell in love with FA bodies who have had issues staying healthy. And that led to wasted dollars and spotty play....from Grove and Smiley to Brandon Albert to Josh Sitton and so on.

You are banging the board for a guy with 9 starts to his resume in Davie, with mixed results. Now if Miami was averaging 5ypc and 125 rushing yards a game, I would be happily and eager to join you in your thought process.

But that would be to simple.
 

ANUFan

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Honestly, you guys are FUNNY!

We've had DECADES of horrendous OL play, including drafting a center the HIGHEST EVER DRAFTED in Mike Pouncey, who played well but only had one truly elite season, and spent most of his time bouncing on and off of the IR. He cost a boatload of money and our OL play was NEVER as good as it has been this year. We tried a lot of different centers, but seldom did we have a good OL for very long. Someone was always injured, and our replacements were either forgettable or joke-worthy.

Now we bring in two new veteran OL, starter-salary Ereck Flowers who has played well, and backup-salary Ted Karras who has played very freaking well!!!! He has greatly outperformed his salary and there are 31 other teams salivating the prospect of getting him for anything even remotely close to that number. But, they know he'll command double or more after this year. The guy is consistently making the right calls for our OL, and a big part of why this OL has SUCCEEDED. But we're Dolfans right ... so at the earliest sign of competency let's act like we're able to plug in any dumbazz UDFA and make it work ... because we simply have the shortest memories in history.

Honestly, how the F can anyone have endured the decades of horrible OL play and be criticizing Ted Karras for having one solid game with 2 snap errors and think we can upgrade? Who is the upgrade gonna be ... Dallas Thomas? Seriously people .... freaking appreciate what we've got. We're only halfway into our first season of OL competency in recent memory ... is this really the time to break up the band for no reason?

Yeah the criticism are unfairly harsh. Especially when you consider how many new guys we have starting at that positon along with the no offseason stuff. Nothing wrong with always wanting to upgrade your talent at every position. But let's not throw the guy out just yet! Lol
 

Digital

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Always make?

With whom on the offensive line has this been a issue with? If anything Davie fell in love with FA bodies who have had issues staying healthy. And that led to wasted dollars and spotty play....from Grove and Smiley to Brandon Albert to Josh Sitton and so on.

You are banging the board for a guy with 9 starts to his resume in Davie, with mixed results. Now if Miami was averaging 5ypc and 125 rushing yards a game, I would be happily and eager to join you in your thought process.

But that would be to simple.
Well always is an overstatement. But we typically choose not to re-sign a guy early.

We tend to let them play into the final year of their contract or all the way through the contract then offer them an offer that is no longer competitive in the market because FA is crazy. That has been our losing FA strategy. We nickel and dime our own guys and lose them under the guise of watching to see how it will play out. We definitely get top performance from them that contract year ... and almost always lose the good ones. Then we use the money saved to go out and buy high priced FA's like Mike Wallace, Mario Williams, Ndomakong Suh, etc. and win the offseason only to return to losing the actual season. IMHO, it is not a sound strategy.

I hope you will agree that the gamble is that if the guy ends up playing well that final contract year, we lose all of our leverage and are forced to either overpay or lose him. It's a gamble of sorts either way, and there is no right answer, but IMHO, the Dolphins tend strongly towards not re-signing early and have shown a very strong tendency to lose many core performers of their team. We can debate the long term value of early re-signing guys like Jarvis Landry, Olivier Vernon or Lamar Miller, but the results of constantly churning the core of your roster seem to have proven rather consistently to be a losing strategy. Not sure of the right mix, but to me it does seem we err too far on the side of waiting to long. Just my $0.02, reasonable minds may differ on this perspective.
 
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