Can penalties be blamed on the coaching?

[texasPHINSfan]

i am having an informal tiff with another finheaven member about this....

**one of us insists that coaching is to blame for the high number of penalties and this is because the coaches have failed to instill discipline in the team.

**the other insists that it is the individual players only who are responsible, and that the coaches cannot control the players on the field.

I made this yes/no, because yes i know it is a happy medium. person 2 has a great point because the coaches are not on the field, however the coaches are responsible for instilling discipline in the players.

person 1 has a good point because the coaches prepare the players for the game and is responsible for the player's concentration, however they cannot literally hold the player's hands while on the field.

which way do you lean? (this can mean you are 51% in either direction)

Yes for coaching
No for players

 

[Tim1958]

I believe in a third option. These players are not used to this system or each other. They are thinking too much and playing too little. Even the coaching staff has not worked together before. These mental errors are part of the growing pains of a new team and are to be expected. Once their assignments become automatic to them they will be more free to concentrate on little things like snap counts. Ya gotta take the good with the bad. We are ALL glad to have the new coaching staff and system. It WILL get better with time, as will the teams playmaking ability.

 

[texasPHINSfan]

i agree. however our coach has been so bent on preaching discipline, and how that is key. yet he says the penalties don't bother him. I think that sends mixed messages to the players.

mismanagement in this area is what it is. Tom Coughlin's team doesn't have a discipline problem. He's harsh, but fair.

 

[Tim1958]

i agree. however our coach has been so bent on preaching discipline, and how that is key. yet he says the penalties don't bother him. I think that sends mixed messages to the players.

mismanagement in this area is what it is. Tom Coughlin's team doesn't have a discipline problem. He's harsh, but fair.

Tom's teams also never won a championship. I think the players get a different message that includes not being criticized in the media. I also think the longer this goes on the more it will bother Saban. Right now I still think it is expected by the coaching staff. At least it was by me.

 

[Finland]

i agree. however our coach has been so bent on preaching discipline, and how that is key. yet he says the penalties don't bother him. I think that sends mixed messages to the players.

mismanagement in this area is what it is. Tom Coughlin's team doesn't have a discipline problem. He's harsh, but fair.

I agree. But the players too. It needs to be the top focus for both for the next game. But there is no arguing that it all starts with the coach. He is not deficient for not doing something until now perhaps, but he needs to respond at this point because something needs to be done quickly.

So YES, COACH first

 

[Noland]

Saban can teach discipline and after a while it will pay off. But he has this team so pumped on what they have to do that they make mental mistakes that they jump off sides and false starts and the other mistakes were just stupid. NO you cannot blame coaching just mental errors on team.


Saban will get their attention it just takes time.

 

[MikeO]

If Wanny is the coach......people blame them on Wanny.

With Saban.........people blame them on the players!


LOL.....what a world!

 

[fishypete]

I can't say a Shula led team wouldn't make moronic mistakes....but I can say they wouldn't make them week after week. Thats the difference between Saban and Shula. I believe it's so obvious to us fans that the same players week after week make the same mistakes.....that wouldn't happen under Shula....those Players would be bagging groceries....MISTAKES lose games. Until Saban takes control and makes it this simple....if you can't play smart....you don't play, forget about the Dolphins beating the better teams....with mistakes they can't beat the lousy teams.

 

[phinfan2003]

Around here, I think the answer will depend on when it was asked.

If you had asked this question last year, it was Wanny's fault. This year, it's the players.

Personally, I've always felt it's the player's fault (even last year). As good as Madison, Taylor, Seau, Thomas, and the others are, they make such dumb mistakes some times.

 

[phinfan2003]

If Wanny is the coach......people blame them on Wanny.

With Saban.........people blame them on the players!


LOL.....what a world!

read my mind

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

i dunno.. tough to say..

saban says these penalties dont occur during practice.. that would leave me to believe that the coaching staff has the players on eggshells for actual games which leads to all of the procedural penalties.

 

[StLouisFinFan]

i agree. however our coach has been so bent on preaching discipline, and how that is key. yet he says the penalties don't bother him. I think that sends mixed messages to the players.

mismanagement in this area is what it is. Tom Coughlin's team doesn't have a discipline problem. He's harsh, but fair.

Saban NEVER said the penalties didn't bother him. He said the football related penalties that reflected over-aggressive style of play was something that he understands and is something that can be worked on with coaching through techniques, etc. He said it was the stupid, mental related penalties that really got his goat b/c they had nothing to do with football, just mental breakdowns. He was simply trying to state that there's a difference between physical penalties (i.e. holding/facemask/pass interference) and mental penalties (off sides; false start; delay of game; personal fouls; etc.). And I agree 100%. Yeah, it would be great if we never had any penalties, but that's not going to happen. So if my team can only commit physical penalties and no mental penalties, then they are showing strong mental toughness, concentration and poise.

 

[MikeO]

I can't say a Shula led team wouldn't make moronic mistakes....but I can say they wouldn't make them week after week. Thats the difference between Saban and Shula. I believe it's so obvious to us fans that the same players week after week make the same mistakes.....that wouldn't happen under Shula....those Players would be bagging groceries....MISTAKES lose games. Until Saban takes control and makes it this simple....if you can't play smart....you don't play, forget about the Dolphins beating the better teams....with mistakes they can't beat the lousy teams.

SHULA was in charge of the competition committee and had the refs in his back pocket! That is why Miami NEVER got called for penalties under Shula.

 

[Finland]

Saban can teach discipline and after a while it will pay off. NO you cannot blame coaching just mental errors on team.
Saban will get their attention it just takes time.

It is not the stance I would coach out of but that's just me. I think you need to have no tolerance for it. Right now I don't see people wanting to worry about it and I think it will continue to haunt them until they make it the one thing they want to focus on. Because the football skills are there, and it is skill that wins you the games slowly as you play within the bounds of penalties. Why beat yourself. So far The Dolphins are the best team on the field IMO.

 

[fishypete]

SHULA was in charge of the competition committee and had the refs in his back pocket! That is why Miami NEVER got called for penalties under Shula.

Hard to hide, off sides....false starts....never mind....personal penalties such as fighting after the play is over. If it happens once one can say it's the players fault.....but every week....then it's on the coach's table.