Can The Dolphins Blow It Up And Rebuild If They Want To? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Can The Dolphins Blow It Up And Rebuild If They Want To?

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For those of you that want to blow it up and rebuild, can they? My conclusion, I think the bed is made and not much can change the next few years. So strap yourself in, and hope that what we have starts looking better. Also strap yourself, because this post is not short. If have time, please read and I am curious what others think about the trade-ability and value of the contracts listed below.

Rebuilding means that in addition to the front office changing, the roster needs to be turned over and rebuilt as well. There is a real problem now because of the contracts they handed out. It is unclear to me if they can trade these guys, get out from under these commitments, acquire meaningful draft capital, and start rebuilding.

The test of some of these contracts is if the player can be traded, and value can be received in return. If so, the contract is decent to good. If not, it is a bad contract.

For example, Davante Adams is not as good as Tyreek. But he had value in the trade market because his contract is up after this year, and he has been mostly paid out already, so the Jets are on the hook for almost nothing in terms of salary. Amari Cooper, not much different. $800K cap hit this year, no obligation left to him after this year.

The guys on the Dolphins roster, that they would have to deal off, I am not sure if they are even tradable because of the money and term left relative to their age, skill set, or injury issues. Term would be a good thing if there was value to the contract, but I think in nearly every case, you can argue these guys are overpaid.

Basically, I am worried that there are no Tunsil like deals to be had, or anything close to that, for anyone on the roster because the contracts we gave our really good players are prohibitive and take a lot of the value out of a potential deal.

There is no point in trading them unless you can get first and second rounders, like we did with Tunsil. Otherwise all you are doing is dumping salary, and putting more money in the owners back pocket, for lower round draft picks that don't have much value and are not enough to form the nucleus of a team. For example, even though I don’t think Ramsey is worth the $25mm, I do think he is much better than the $6mm a year guy they might sign to replace him. If you traded Ramsey for a 4th rounder, despite the extra cap space, you probably make yourself worse. Or you have extra money they turn around to use and overpay another free agent, and are back in the same spot, or maybe not if you get it wrong on the new guy.

Then the problem also becomes if it is hard to get out from under this stuff, what good GM is going to want to take the job knowing there might be nothing they can do for the next few years until these contracts burn off? It is pointless to let Grier do the rebuild too, so obviously you have to believe Ross would finally fire him, after letting Grier handle this stuff at the deadline (unless you believe some of these guys would be worth more in the offseason and a theoretical new GM could make the decisions). The Grier issue adds another layer of complexity – you do not want to have him leading another rebuild.

Here is a list of guys that the Dolphins would have to deal to try and rebuild. You tell me if you could get first or second rounders for these guys given their contracts, or if in fact the Dolphins were able to move them, they would have to eat money to actually do it and still not get much in return:

Tua – 4 years $212 mm, can get out in 2027, but would still have a $38mm dead cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/47598/tua-tagovailoa

Tyreek – 3 years $90mm, can get out after 2026 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/19119/tyreek-hill

Jalen Ramsey – 3 years, $72mm, looks like no out through 2028 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/18953/jalen-ramsey

Waddle – 3 years, $84mm, can get out after 2027 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/72385/jaylen-waddle

Chubb – 5 years, $110mm, can get out after this year with a $27mm cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/25100/bradley-chubb

Armstead – 3 years, $38mm, can get out after this year with an $18mm cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/12356/terron-armstead

Bonus Questions – if we fired both Grier and McDaniel, do you think another team would hire either of them as a GM or head coach? Not that McDaniel is going anywhere either, because they just gave him a big new contract too!

I will start with the easy ones. If it doesn’t look good by the time the deadline rolls around, I would trade Chubb and Armstead, for not a ton of draft compensation, as they are special situations. My guess is we would move on from them after this year anyway, and eat the dead money, so if there is a contender that wants them for a playoff run, sold to you!

As for the rest of these guys, Waddle given his age, might have the most value. I don’t think we can get out from under Tyreek, Tua, or the Ramsey contracts for any reasonable return. In fact, as far as Tua goes, if they wanted to deal him to another team, they would have to eat a fair bit of money to do it given the injury risk to the acquiring team, especially if he is declared medically ineligible to return if he gets concussed again, which seems like a real risk. Sadly, I think the contract has turned into a liability.

Then of course, if they plan on having Tua around, there is not much point to having Tua, without Tyreek and Waddle being here. And also if they plan on having Tua around, I doubt we will be using a high draft pick on another QB. So it seems we are stuck with all of it, including Grier and McDaniel. Said another way, my guess is 2-3 more years with the same guys here, small outside chance of a Grier firing, but beyond that, the basic structure of the team is not changing for the next few years. Sadly, I think the basic structure of the team gets worse because these contracts are back end loaded and the cap hits start to bite, so that will force more of the other talent off the roster. It is what it is at this point, the bed seemingly has been made.
 
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For those of you that want to blow it up and rebuild, can they? My conclusion, I think the bed is made and not much can change the next few years. So strap yourself in, and hope that what we have starts looking better.

Rebuilding means that in addition to the front office changing, the roster needs to be turned over and rebuilt as well. There is a real problem now because of the contracts they handed out. It is unclear to me if they can trade these guys, get out from under these commitments, acquire meaningful draft capital, and start rebuilding.

The test of some of these contracts is if the player can be traded, and value can be received in return. If so, the contract is decent to good. If not, it is a bad contract.

For example, Davante Adams is not as good as Tyreek. But he had value in the trade market because his contract is up after this year, and he has been mostly paid out already, so the Jets are on the hook for almost nothing in terms of salary. Amari Cooper, not much different. $800K cap hit this year, no obligation left to him after this year.

The guys on the Dolphins roster, that they would have to deal off, I am not sure if they are even tradable because of the money and term left relative to their age, skill set, or injury issues. Term would be a good thing if there was value to the contract, but I think in nearly every case, you can argue these guys are overpaid.

There is no point in trading them unless you can get first and second rounders, like we did with Tunsil. Otherwise all you are doing is dumping salary, and putting more money in the owners back pocket, for lower round draft picks that don't have much value and are not enough to form the nucleus of a team. For example, even though I don’t think Ramsey is worth the $25mm, I do think he is much better than the $6mm a year guy they might sign to replace him. If you traded Ramsey for a 4th rounder, despite the extra cap space, you probably make yourself worse. Or you have extra money they turn around to use and overpay another free agent, and are back in the same spot, or maybe not if you get it wrong on the new guy.

Then the problem also becomes if it is hard to get out from under this stuff, what good GM is going to want to take the job knowing there might be nothing they can do for the next few years until these contracts burn off? It is pointless to let Grier do the rebuild too, so obviously you have to believe Ross would finally fire him, after letting Grier handle this stuff at the deadline (unless you believe some of these guys would be worth more in the offseason and a theoretical new GM could make the decisions). The Grier issue adds another layer of complexity – you do not want to have him leading another rebuild.

Here is a list of guys that the Dolphins would have to deal to try and rebuild. You tell me if you could get first or second rounders for these guys given their contracts, or if in fact the Dolphins were able to move them, they would have to eat money to actually do it and still not get much in return:

Tua – 4 years $212 mm, can get out in 2027, but would still have a $38mm dead cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/47598/tua-tagovailoa

Tyreek – 3 years $90mm, can get out after 2026 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/19119/tyreek-hill

Jalen Ramsey – 3 years, $72mm, looks like no out through 2028 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/18953/jalen-ramsey

Waddle – 3 years, $84mm, can get out after 2027 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/72385/jaylen-waddle

Chubb – 5 years, $110mm, can get out after this year with a $27mm cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/25100/bradley-chubb

Armstead – 3 years, $38mm, can get out after this year with an $18mm cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/12356/terron-armstead

Bonus Questions – if we fired both Grier and McDaniel, do you think another team would hire either of them as a GM or head coach? Not that McDaniel is going anywhere either, because they just gave him a big new contract too!

I will start with the easy ones. If it doesn’t look good by the time the deadline rolls around, I would trade Chubb and Armstead, for not a ton of draft compensation, as they are special situations. My guess is we would move on from them after this year anyway, and eat the dead money, so if there is a contender that wants them for a playoff run, sold to you! As for the rest of these guys, Waddle given his age, might have the most value. I don’t think we can get out from under Tyreek, Tua, or the Ramsey contracts for any reasonable return. In fact, as far as Tua goes, if they wanted to deal him to another team, they would have to eat a fair bit of money to do it given the injury risk to the acquiring team, especially if he is declared medically ineligible to return if he gets concussed again, which seems like a real risk. Sadly, I think the contract has turned into a liability.

Then of course, if they plan on having Tua around, there is not much point to having Tua, without Tyreek and Waddle being here. And also if they plan on having Tua around, I doubt we will be using a high draft pick on another QB. So it seems we are stuck with all of it, including Grier and McDaniel. Said another way, my guess is 2-3 more years with the same guys here, small outside chance of a Grier firing, but beyond that, the basic structure of the team is not changing for the next few years.
If you look at everything and don't expect your desired end-result within those 2-3 years, why let it fester? It would be very painful, but only for 2 years, then you're fresh, hopefully with people pulling the strings that TRULY want to establish a dominant team and culture. In that scenario, you can't expect the current management and staff to shift to that direction...that's fantasy. I don't want current management managing resources for that 2-3 years...that's an automatic loss IMO.

We SUNK the Texans with that Tunsil trade, now look at 'em...it can be done...it just can't be done with our inside-the-building people. Saying you want to win a Super Bowl isn't the same as actually building a Super Bowl worthy product. Don't ****ing promote from within, bring in somebody who has a strong record with a team that has proven they know how to build a winner. To a point, I don't trust KC management people, because they struck gold with Mahomes, and he single-handedly makes everybody in their organization look better...including Andy Reid...he's 1 of 1, and NOBODY knew he'd be that good coming out of Texas Tech, no matter what they tell you.

Find an executive you're impressed with, offer fat $$, and give him the keys...this organization as-is doesn't know how to grow excellence. Full on house cleaning.
 
If you look at everything and don't expect your desired end-result within those 2-3 years, why let it fester? It would be very painful, but only for 2 years, then you're fresh, hopefully with people pulling the strings that TRULY want to establish a dominant team and culture. In that scenario, you can't expect the current management and staff to shift to that direction...that's fantasy. I don't want current management managing resources for that 2-3 years...that's an automatic loss IMO.

We SUNK the Texans with that Tunsil trade, now look at 'em...it can be done...it just can't be done with our inside-the-building people. Saying you want to win a Super Bowl isn't the same as actually building a Super Bowl worthy product. Don't ****ing promote from within, bring in somebody who has a strong record with a team that has proven they know how to build a winner. To a point, I don't trust KC management people, because they struck gold with Mahomes, and he single-handedly makes everybody in their organization look better...including Andy Reid...he's 1 of 1, and NOBODY knew he'd be that good coming out of Texas Tech, no matter what they tell you.

Find an executive you're impressed with, offer fat $$, and give him the keys...this organization as-is doesn't know how to grow excellence.
I agree, but the problem is, can he move guys off the roster and get meaningful value in return for any of them like we did with Tunsil? I am worried that we cannot because these contracts all suck, and nobody is going to want these guys for the money they have on their deal?
 
Any team can rebuild even with bloated contracts on the roster. The problem is you have to draft well which is easier said than done for this team especially with Grier at the helm.
i agree, but that is just doing it the old fashioned way, and not really a tear down and rebuild. that would just be a very slow process, and grier is not the guy to do it. then given where we are relative to the cap, any new guy would not only have little flexibility with the roster, he would have to purge talent because the salary cap hits of these back end loaded contracts kick in. it just feels to me like it will be a messy few years now with all of these deals handed out, and the back end loaded nature of the cap hits.
 
For those of you that want to blow it up and rebuild, can they? My conclusion, I think the bed is made and not much can change the next few years. So strap yourself in, and hope that what we have starts looking better. Also strap yourself, because this post is not short. If have time, please read and I am curious what others think about the trade-ability and value of the contracts listed below.

Rebuilding means that in addition to the front office changing, the roster needs to be turned over and rebuilt as well. There is a real problem now because of the contracts they handed out. It is unclear to me if they can trade these guys, get out from under these commitments, acquire meaningful draft capital, and start rebuilding.

The test of some of these contracts is if the player can be traded, and value can be received in return. If so, the contract is decent to good. If not, it is a bad contract.

For example, Davante Adams is not as good as Tyreek. But he had value in the trade market because his contract is up after this year, and he has been mostly paid out already, so the Jets are on the hook for almost nothing in terms of salary. Amari Cooper, not much different. $800K cap hit this year, no obligation left to him after this year.

The guys on the Dolphins roster, that they would have to deal off, I am not sure if they are even tradable because of the money and term left relative to their age, skill set, or injury issues. Term would be a good thing if there was value to the contract, but I think in nearly every case, you can argue these guys are overpaid.

Basically, I am worried that there are no Tunsil like deals to be had, or anything close to that, for anyone on the roster because the contracts we gave our really good players are prohibitive and take a lot of the value out of a potential deal.

There is no point in trading them unless you can get first and second rounders, like we did with Tunsil. Otherwise all you are doing is dumping salary, and putting more money in the owners back pocket, for lower round draft picks that don't have much value and are not enough to form the nucleus of a team. For example, even though I don’t think Ramsey is worth the $25mm, I do think he is much better than the $6mm a year guy they might sign to replace him. If you traded Ramsey for a 4th rounder, despite the extra cap space, you probably make yourself worse. Or you have extra money they turn around to use and overpay another free agent, and are back in the same spot, or maybe not if you get it wrong on the new guy.

Then the problem also becomes if it is hard to get out from under this stuff, what good GM is going to want to take the job knowing there might be nothing they can do for the next few years until these contracts burn off? It is pointless to let Grier do the rebuild too, so obviously you have to believe Ross would finally fire him, after letting Grier handle this stuff at the deadline (unless you believe some of these guys would be worth more in the offseason and a theoretical new GM could make the decisions). The Grier issue adds another layer of complexity – you do not want to have him leading another rebuild.

Here is a list of guys that the Dolphins would have to deal to try and rebuild. You tell me if you could get first or second rounders for these guys given their contracts, or if in fact the Dolphins were able to move them, they would have to eat money to actually do it and still not get much in return:

Tua – 4 years $212 mm, can get out in 2027, but would still have a $38mm dead cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/47598/tua-tagovailoa

Tyreek – 3 years $90mm, can get out after 2026 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/19119/tyreek-hill

Jalen Ramsey – 3 years, $72mm, looks like no out through 2028 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/18953/jalen-ramsey

Waddle – 3 years, $84mm, can get out after 2027 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/72385/jaylen-waddle

Chubb – 5 years, $110mm, can get out after this year with a $27mm cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/25100/bradley-chubb

Armstead – 3 years, $38mm, can get out after this year with an $18mm cap hit https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/12356/terron-armstead

Bonus Questions – if we fired both Grier and McDaniel, do you think another team would hire either of them as a GM or head coach? Not that McDaniel is going anywhere either, because they just gave him a big new contract too!

I will start with the easy ones. If it doesn’t look good by the time the deadline rolls around, I would trade Chubb and Armstead, for not a ton of draft compensation, as they are special situations. My guess is we would move on from them after this year anyway, and eat the dead money, so if there is a contender that wants them for a playoff run, sold to you!

As for the rest of these guys, Waddle given his age, might have the most value. I don’t think we can get out from under Tyreek, Tua, or the Ramsey contracts for any reasonable return. In fact, as far as Tua goes, if they wanted to deal him to another team, they would have to eat a fair bit of money to do it given the injury risk to the acquiring team, especially if he is declared medically ineligible to return if he gets concussed again, which seems like a real risk. Sadly, I think the contract has turned into a liability.

Then of course, if they plan on having Tua around, there is not much point to having Tua, without Tyreek and Waddle being here. And also if they plan on having Tua around, I doubt we will be using a high draft pick on another QB. So it seems we are stuck with all of it, including Grier and McDaniel. Said another way, my guess is 2-3 more years with the same guys here, small outside chance of a Grier firing, but beyond that, the basic structure of the team is not changing for the next few years. Sadly, I think the basic structure of the team gets worse because these contracts are back end loaded and the cap hits start to bite, so that will force more of the other talent off the roster. It is what it is at this point, the bed seemingly has been made.
Keep them, and then go the following route:

Option 1: Draft a QB in 2025, and spend every other draft choice in 2025 on offensive linemen. Go young there. In 2026, trade down multiple times and acquire as many additional picks in the 2026 and 2027 drafts. Try to exit each draft with 12 or more selections.

Option 2: Trade down multiple times and acquire as many additional picks in the 2025 and 2026 drafts as possible. Use one of those picks (preferably the highest one) on a QB. Do the same in 2026 and 2027. Try to exit each draft with 12 or more selections.
 
Keep them, and then go the following route:

Option 1: Draft a QB in 2025, and spend every other draft choice in 2025 on offensive linemen. Go young there. In 2026, trade down multiple times and acquire as many additional picks in the 2026 and 2027 drafts. Try to exit each draft with 12 or more selections.

Option 2: Trade down multiple times and acquire as many additional picks in the 2025 and 2026 drafts as possible. Use one of those picks (preferably the highest one) on a QB. Do the same in 2026 and 2027. Try to exit each draft with 12 or more selections.
so i agree with this too, but if they stay committed to tua, i don't think they would ever use the high draft pick on a new qb
 
You have to have an owner that is willing and understands that if he wants to rebuild he’s gonna have to eat a lot of money.
 
so i agree with this too, but if they stay committed to tua, i don't think they would ever use the high draft pick on a new qb
You can't be totally committed to injury qb. Dolphins front office know that know. Teams that don't have qb are teams losing in nfl. They can do soft rebuild. Draft qb. Than focus on OL and Def line next 2 yr. While still maintenance win record. Maybe try trade Tua and pay 25 percent off his salary to next team. I am not sure Ross goingʻ fire Grier and McDaniel next yr. I can see McDaniel getting fired in January 2026. If he dont make playoff.
 
You can't be totally committed to injury qb. Dolphins front office know that know. Team that don't have qb are team losing in nfl. They can do soft rebuild. Draft qb. Than focus on OL and Def line next 2 yr. While still maintenance win record. Maybe try trade Tua and pay 25 percent off his salary to next team. I am not sure Ross goingʻ fire Grier and McDaniel next yr. I can see McDaniel getting fired in January 2026. If he dont make playoff.
yes but again i would be stunned if they use a high draft pick on a qb, to sit on the bench, with tua and his salary here....
 
Rebuild consists of two things: 1. New QB, new window, and 2. New defensive coordinator. Normally when a team changes the HC, then a new defensive coordinator will be hired and that is a partial rebuild. If the new HC gets a new QB that is a full rebuild. Same with hiring a new GM, he may decide to get a new QB and a new HC hence a new DC, and that results in a rebuild.
It has nothing to do with the rest of the roster. And it has nothing to do with replacing the GM or the HC. Rebuild is specifically about new QB and new DC. If a new HC or GM does not change the QB or DC, there is no rebuild.
The roster moves you are talking about are an ongoing discussion and have nothing to do with rebuild. The Dolphins right now are in partial rebuild, they have a new DC.
 
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Yes, easily.

If you have someone in charge who is competent, motivated, and has a little imagination, this team can be turned around quite quickly. People become paralyzed with fear because 'uhhh contracts,' without realizing that the problem here is not contracts. The problem here is incompetence. The problem here is that your braintrust can't identify talent at multiple position groups and has a dull, copycat vision for how to assemble a winning squad. The problem here is that your braintrust's only motivation is continuing to be your braintrust.

Fire everyone ASAP. Hire new management from outside. Yes, the bandage has to be ripped off, but that only stings for a moment.

The longer this organization labors under the delusion that fixing things will take too long and be too painful, nothing will get fixed.
 
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