Chance Davante Smith slips to #18? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Chance Davante Smith slips to #18?

Will he be there at #18

  • Nope, he will be taken already

    Votes: 162 83.9%
  • YES and I would draft him at #18

    Votes: 27 14.0%
  • YES and I would NOT draft him at #18

    Votes: 4 2.1%

  • Total voters
    193
  • This poll will close: .

rafael

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If you look at what traits have correlated with WR success they are generally not the measurables that get talked about by many here. IMO the reason that so many WRs that are taken high are less successful than some taken earlier is b/c of the focus on size and speed.

I find that far and away the physical traits that most predict NFL success are hands and route running. Jefferson excelled as a rookie b/c he was arguably the best route runner and he had great hands. He was in no way a physical freak. The mental traits that matters most are work ethic and drive. Antonio Brown was a head case, but he was also the best WR in the league for several years b/c he was driven and had an insane work ethic. He didn't have elite size or speed, but he did have elite quickness. The one measurable that I do find consistently suggests NFL success is length. Anybody who has played keep away with an older, taller sibling understands how frustrating it is to face somebody with more length. Even that measurable is limited b/c it depends on hands, body control, catch radius, technique, etc. Our own Devante Parker always had a great wingspan, but he took that step up when his technique improved.

Smith is elite in all of these traits. IMO anybody that is betting against his NFL success doesn't understand football.
 

TraderJoe

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Overplayed is an understatement.

It shouldn’t be played at all. There’s not a single ounce of justification for it. Not from his play on the field for 4 seasons, his durability during all that time in the SEC, and the fact that there’s no precedent for slim players not cutting it because they are slim.

Bunch of made up nonsense is all it is.

Smith’s NFL future will rely strictly on his skill set and fit with whatever team and QB he ends up with. And his learning and development, of course.
Not looking to be argumentative but this article does raise questions regarding skinny receivers and their general lack of production.

Using the authors math Smith would be by far the skinniest player on the list at 2.33 Lbs/Inch.

 

bdizzle00

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If you look at what traits have correlated with WR success they are generally not the measurables that get talked about by many here. IMO the reason that so many WRs that are taken high are less successful than some taken earlier is b/c of the focus on size and speed.

I find that far and away the physical traits that most predict NFL success are hands and route running. Jefferson excelled as a rookie b/c he was arguably the best route runner and he had great hands. He was in no way a physical freak. The mental traits that matters most are work ethic and drive. Antonio Brown was a head case, but he was also the best WR in the league for several years b/c he was driven and had an insane work ethic. He didn't have elite size or speed, but he did have elite quickness. The one measurable that I do find consistently suggests NFL success is length. Anybody who has played keep away with an older, taller sibling understands how frustrating it is to face somebody with more length. Even that measurable is limited b/c it depends on hands, body control, catch radius, technique, etc. Our own Devante Parker always had a great wingspan, but he took that step up when his technique improved.

Smith is elite in all of these traits. IMO anybody that is betting against his NFL success doesn't understand football.
There is a lot of insulting rhetoric being aimed at people who are concerned about Smith’s size. I don’t think that having the opinion that Marvin Harrison is the outlier and best case scenario for WRs as light as Davonte Smith means you have a “low football IQ”, or that you “ don’t understand football”. It just means we are afraid he’s going to be broken in half by a safety or get manhandled at the LOS, or he’s more likely going to be Desean Jackson than Marvin Harrison.
He hasn’t played a down in the NFL, so for now, I’m just using history and odds to base an opinion. i hope he turns out great, but historically his type of WR does not turn out to be great in the NFL.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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Not looking to be argumentative but this article does raise questions regarding skinny receivers and their general lack of production.

Using the authors math Smith would be by far the skinniest player on the list at 2.33 Lbs/Inch.


I don't like skinny receivers but I've never seen one with Smitty's skills either. I think Hollywood Brown and Calvin Ridley would probably be at the top of this guy's list now. They've only scored about 35 TD's between them in the past couple of years.

I remember a skinny kid out of Southern Miss by the name of Todd Pinkston that was 6'2", 174 and caught over a hundred balls one year. He was better than Freddie Mitchell, who was also skinny. Skinny receivers can produce if they have skills. I've never seen one with skills like Smitty.

A more interesting study for him to do would be to determine why the big 6'5", 225 pound receivers like Mike Williams, Patrick Turner, Reggie Williams, etc. don't turn out to be great. Somebody give him a head start and let him know it's because they don't have the skills or desire a player like Smitty has. They're automatically culled before they even get drafted despite being the biggest guys on the field outside the trenches.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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There is a lot of insulting rhetoric being aimed at people who are concerned about Smith’s size. I don’t think that having the opinion that Marvin Harrison is the outlier and best case scenario for WRs as light as Davonte Smith means you have a “low football IQ”, or that you “ don’t understand football”. It just means we are afraid he’s going to be broken in half by a safety or get manhandled at the LOS, or he’s more likely going to be Desean Jackson than Marvin Harrison.
He hasn’t played a down in the NFL, so for now, I’m just using history and odds to base an opinion. i hope he turns out great, but historically his type of WR does not turn out to be great in the NFL.

Well, the truth is when people say things like they're afraid he's going to be broken in half by a safety, it's just insulting towards Smitty as a player. Flat out.

I think that's the part that rubs people the wrong way. You're not trying to have an honest discussion when that is the tenor of the post.

Everyone should be concerned that every player in the draft isn't going to pan out, because most of 'em won't - and they'll all be big enough.

The truth is nobody is going to see anybody get broken in half by a safety in the NFL and haven't for a long time. The number of 6'2", 215 pound receivers that didn't make it in the NFL dwarf any other number out there.
 

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I don't like skinny receivers but I've never seen one with Smitty's skills either. I think Hollywood Brown and Calvin Ridley would probably be at the top of this guy's list now. They've only scored about 35 TD's between them in the past couple of years.

I remember a skinny kid out of Southern Miss by the name of Todd Pinkston that was 6'2", 174 and caught over a hundred balls one year. He was better than Freddie Mitchell, who was also skinny. Skinny receivers can produce if they have skills. I've never seen one with skills like Smitty.

A more interesting study for him to do would be to determine why the big 6'5", 225 pound receivers like Mike Williams, Patrick Turner, Reggie Williams, etc. don't turn out to be great. Somebody give him a head start and let him know it's because they don't have the skills or desire a player like Smitty has. They're automatically culled before they even get drafted despite being the biggest guys on the field outside the trenches.

I think the comparison you are looking for is something like when Lewis Skolnik ate Betsy's cake in Revenge of the Nerds. Some people have to try harder to hone in on their crafts when they are lacking in other areas
 

Crump

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I think that's the part that rubs people the wrong way. You're not trying to have an honest discussi

there is also another thing some people dont like to mention. there is a difference between skinny and lean. 6'0 140 is skinny, that is my oldest sons size. 6'1" 170 is my oldest sons size and he has good lean muscle from working with his grandpas grading company. There is a major core difference in those 2. I dont want to see Smith in his underwear, because even though im secure in masculinity, thats just weird. But as long as he has lean muscle to support his frame then he'll be fine taking the hits. We are not drafting him to do crack back blocks...which are probably illegal now anyways i'd be guess.
 

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I'd take him at 18 even if we take Chase at 6. He'd be BPA by far. Fuller is on a prove it deal, Parker can't stay healthy, and none of the other WRs on the roster have much of a long term outlook.

I doubt he makes it though. If we end up taking Pitts then my hope is that Smith or Waddle drop far enough to move up from 18.

This is my gut feeling as well. We take our #1 choice at 6 and somehow our #2 falls close enough to go grab him at like 13/14
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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there is also another thing some people dont like to mention. there is a difference between skinny and lean. 6'0 140 is skinny, that is my oldest sons size. 6'1" 170 is my oldest sons size and he has good lean muscle from working with his grandpas grading company. There is a major core difference in those 2. I dont want to see Smith in his underwear, because even though im secure in masculinity, thats just weird. But as long as he has lean muscle to support his frame then he'll be fine taking the hits. We are not drafting him to do crack back blocks...which are probably illegal now anyways i'd be guess.

The truth is that if his size were as big of a concern as some are trying to make it, we wouldn't have made it to this point to begin with. He would've already been culled. Certainly not excelled to be the best player in the country.

J-doll said it best - skills pay the bills at a position such as wide receiver. Betting on size will get you in the poor house.
 

Gatorboy999120

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The truth is that if his size were as big of a concern as some are trying to make it, we wouldn't have made it to this point to begin with. He would've already been culled. Certainly not excelled to be the best player in the country.

J-doll said it best - skills pay the bills at a position such as wide receiver. Betting on size will get you in the poor house.
Sure..Size (tall/big etc.) alone won't be enough. Lack of size (small/slim etc.) can be fine with the right skills and such, and he has skills in spades and length good enough for the position.

But when you combine skills and size (big/tall/etc.)..it can be even more lethal. Like a Owens/Moss/Megatron, etc.

Not to say (smaller/Slimmer/etc.) players can't succeed..like Marvin Harrison etc. :shrug:
 

bdizzle00

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I don't like skinny receivers but I've never seen one with Smitty's skills either. I think Hollywood Brown and Calvin Ridley would probably be at the top of this guy's list now. They've only scored about 35 TD's between them in the past couple of years.

I remember a skinny kid out of Southern Miss by the name of Todd Pinkston that was 6'2", 174 and caught over a hundred balls one year. He was better than Freddie Mitchell, who was also skinny. Skinny receivers can produce if they have skills. I've never seen one with skills like Smitty.

A more interesting study for him to do would be to determine why the big 6'5", 225 pound receivers like Mike Williams, Patrick Turner, Reggie Williams, etc. don't turn out to be great. Somebody give him a head start and let him know it's because they don't have the skills or desire a player like Smitty has. They're automatically culled before they even get drafted despite being the biggest guys on the field outside the trenches.
That's because there are almost none as skinny and light as Smith. They don't really exist. Calvin Ridley weighs 190. Brown is comparable I guess, but he's much shorter and more compact. I don't see Brown as a #1 WR.

We'll see. I hope he turns out great. But I think he needs to put on a little weight. Tyler Lockett and Tyreke Hill are the only 2 really good WR's in the NFL that are even under 185 (unless you consider Hollywood Brown really good), and they are both over 180.
 

Pachyderm_Wave

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That's because there are almost none as skinny and light as Smith. They don't really exist. Calvin Ridley weighs 190. Brown is comparable I guess, but he's much shorter and more compact. I don't see Brown as a #1 WR.

We'll see. I hope he turns out great. But I think he needs to put on a little weight. Tyler Lockett and Tyreke Hill are the only 2 really good WR's in the NFL that are even under 185 (unless you consider Hollywood Brown really good), and they are both over 180.

Well Smitty is no doubt a unique player. I think he's probably an exception. If he's not then I don't know if there will ever be one.

I think he's probably the Warrick Dunn of wide receivers. All of Smitty's coaches always wished he was bigger. In the end I just don't believe it's going to matter no matter how much it's talked about.

You're correct that the NFL has preferences - as does big time college football. However, somebody like me is going to need someone from the NFL to point out to me what he can't do on the football field to show he can't make it. Harping on his weight isn't going to convince me. As long as his feet touch the ground I think he's going to be ok.
 

DOLFANMIKE

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I have revised my Mock draft based on the fact that while I think Smith will Slide, it wont be past 12... the only way we draft Pitts at 6 then Smith with our 1b selection is to trade up to 10-12...
I now have LB Parsons as my Mock selection at #18
 

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There is a lot of insulting rhetoric being aimed at people who are concerned about Smith’s size. I don’t think that having the opinion that Marvin Harrison is the outlier and best case scenario for WRs as light as Davonte Smith means you have a “low football IQ”, or that you “ don’t understand football”. It just means we are afraid he’s going to be broken in half by a safety or get manhandled at the LOS, or he’s more likely going to be Desean Jackson than Marvin Harrison.
He hasn’t played a down in the NFL, so for now, I’m just using history and odds to base an opinion. i hope he turns out great, but historically his type of WR does not turn out to be great in the NFL.
Its because when we drafted Tua, we inherited so many Alabama fans, saying even obvious assessments about Alabama prospects makes them go on full attack mode.

Notice no one said anything about Smiths talent level. Only that his slight frame could lead to him struggling to off thd line of scrimmage. If true, this means he's not a true #1, hence not worth the #6 pick and the possibility he is the player that free falls in this draft.

There is always one shocking faller, Smith is 100% a candidate. Not working out hurt him IMO. Makes it looks like he's hiding his size.
 
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