Cleo should have started after Daunte was yanked.

[Shamboubou]

No coach? Saban did it by choosing Joey over Cleo as Parcells did it by choosing Bledsoe over Romo....except Parcells realized the error of his ways and yanked Bledsoe. Look at where Bill is now.

Also in comparison between Joey and Cleo...yes, Cleo has torn it up in any two games they have been in together, Cleo has outplayed Joey every single time.
:rolleyes2

That is plain ignorant. I'm sure Saban and Bill got together and said, "well hell why not this season we start QB's that are worse that our backup's and see how that works for us. I mean we really dont like coaching anymore so we might as well ruin this season before we get fired."

Then again I guess Bill B. must be an idiot also for starting Bledsoe over Brady right?

Furthermore if you think Cleo tore it up while he was in the game, you must have really loved Fiedler. I'll even go out on a limb and say you were a big Ray Lucas supporter.

 

[adamprez2003]

And I'll reiterate that it isn't "rushing to proclaim him savior" just to kind of...you know...NOT say stuff like Cleo couldn't read a defense to save his life, doesn't have a grasp on the offense, etc.

I mean there's got to be SOME kind of middle ground between "savior" and "dumb@ss"

When I compare him to Tony Romo, it is a flattering comparison for Cleo but also a pot shot at Romo, whom I do not think is "the next great Dallas QB" that some have proclaimed. He's good. I like him a lot, actually. He deserves the pro bowl, considering the play of all the other QBs in the NFC. But, he's got weaknesses that are going to haunt the boys.

Cleo has some as well. As I mentioned in the analysis...this high 60's and 70% completion stuff with 10 or 11 ypc? That's not something that is sustainable. And, truth be told, 10 or 11 yards per completion is a really myopic vertical focus. With a YPC that low, you need high completion percentages just to maintain respectable offensive efficiency. There are better QBs out there that can reach their equilibriums at about 12, 13, 14, or even 15 yards per completion. When I've criticized Joey in the past it is for his inability to attain enough efficiency with that short of a vertical focus to make it work. I think Lemon can, and has shown it since college...but that doesn't make him as good as a QB that can reach an equilibrium while still stretching the field.

This no interceptions in his last 141 throws business? That's not something that is sustainable by any means. He'll come back down to earth and the landing will be painful.

But, also when you step back and look at it all, you might just realize we have one of the better QBs in the conference.

I agree on the middle ground and honestly I'm not calling him a dumb*** either. It may come across that way because of the confrontational nature of this site but my intention wasnt that. I understand that coming from his college background and getting on a team that had Rivers and Brees he had to have time to develop. If we were to draft Kevin Kolb I would expect almost the same time frame for him to be ready. Minimum three years and maybe four. My concern is that next year will be his fifth and if he's going to play up to his potential then he has to move up to 2nd string. He certainly has the ability physically. You're view of Romo is pretty much mine of Cleo. I was just trying to point out that he's got a ways to go before we know if he can handle backup duties. So far there have been positives and some negatives but as of now I prefer to view him positively. If I bring up negatives on players it sometimes is simply to balance out a threads overwhelming positive bias. It looked to me like a simplified offense but it could just as well be Mularkey's playcalling preferences. He hasnt played enough to make a declarative statement so I have only to go on my impressions and with so little gametime its definitely possible I'm wrong.

 

[ckparrothead]

I agree on the middle ground and honestly I'm not calling him a dumb*** either. I understand that coming from his college background and getting on a team that had Rivers and Brees he had to have time to develop. If we were to draft Kevin Kolb I would expect almost the same time frame for him to be ready. Minimum three years and maybe four. My concern is that next year will be his fifth and if he's going to play up to his potential then he has to move up to 2nd string. He certainly has the ability physically. You're view of Romo is pretty much mine of Cleo. I was just trying to point out that he's got a ways to go before we know if he can handle backup duties. So far there have been positives and some negatives but as of now I prefer to view him positively. If I bring up negatives on players it sometimes is simply to balance out a threads overwhelming positive bias.

Fair enough.

I don't think this way about other Dolphins QBs just because they're Dolphins. There have been plenty Dolphins to walk in and out of this locker room that got less than a ringing endorsement from me...most notable in recent memory is probably Harrington.

I was plain in not liking Brock Berlin, AJ Feeley, Jay Fiedler, and even Gus Frerotte. I thought Sage had a little something, not franchise caliber something or necessarily even starter caliber something, but a little something nonetheless...and I was all for him getting the nod over Gus Frerotte vs. Cleveland...I was extremely tired of Frerotte's inaccuracy at that point.

But I have to say Cleo Lemon excites me more than any QB not named Daunte that Miami has had on the roster since...well, probably since the big guy himself.

Positive momentum has significance, and Cleo Lemon's story is one of positive momentum, and finding his vertical comfort zone. You don't trade AJ Feeley and a 6th rounder for a formerly undrafted free agent third stringer unless he's shown you some significant positive momentum and a tool set.

What excites me about Cleo is it has probably been since 2004 or 2003 when I can look at something of his and say yeah...that disappoints me.

I think next year he'll definitely be a primary backup. With the Fins, or maybe without the Fins...and he'll win it by competition, or maybe without competition. Nonetheless, he'll be a #2.

 

[Shamboubou]

Fair enough.

I don't think this way about other Dolphins QBs just because they're Dolphins. There have been plenty Dolphins to walk in and out of this locker room that got less than a ringing endorsement from me...most notable in recent memory is probably Harrington.

I was plain in not liking Brock Berlin, AJ Feeley, Jay Fiedler, and even Gus Frerotte. I thought Sage had a little something, not franchise caliber something or necessarily even starter caliber something, but a little something nonetheless...and I was all for him getting the nod over Gus Frerotte vs. Cleveland...I was extremely tired of Frerotte's inaccuracy at that point.

But I have to say Cleo Lemon excites me more than any QB not named Daunte that Miami has had on the roster since...well, probably since the big guy himself.

Positive momentum has significance, and Cleo Lemon's story is one of positive momentum, and finding his vertical comfort zone. You don't trade AJ Feeley and a 6th rounder for a formerly undrafted free agent third stringer unless he's shown you some significant positive momentum and a tool set.

What excites me about Cleo is it has probably been since 2004 or 2003 when I can look at something of his and say yeah...that disappoints me.

I think next year he'll definitely be a primary backup. With the Fins, or maybe without the Fins...and he'll win it by competition, or maybe without competition. Nonetheless, he'll be a #2.

This is how you post to support a player right here. Thank you for making valid points and having structure in your post. Even though I tend to disagree with wanting Cleo as a backup. Many people on here could learn how to post by using this as an example. You dont make your point of a player being good by tearing down the other players around him.
:clap: :clap:

 

[ckparrothead]

This is how you post to support a player right here. Thank you for making valid points and having structure in your post. Even though I tend to disagree with wanting Cleo as a backup. Many people on here could learn how to post by using this as an example. You dont make your point of a player being good by tearing down the other players around him.
:clap: :clap:

LOL, you probably haven't seen me post about Harrington that much then

Although I rarely consider it tearing down a player to simply acknowledge that he doesn't have pro talent. I don't have pro QB talent....and I'm not crying into anyone's shoulder because I admitted it. I also haven't collected tens of millions from people that thought I was a pro talent QB...

 

[Superself]

That is plain ignorant. I'm sure Saban and Bill got together and said, "well hell why not this season we start QB's that are worse that our backup's and see how that works for us. I mean we really dont like coaching anymore so we might as well ruin this season before we get fired."

Then again I guess Bill B. must be an idiot also for starting Bledsoe over Brady right?

Furthermore if you think Cleo tore it up while he was in the game, you must have really loved Fiedler. I'll even go out on a limb and say you were a big Ray Lucas supporter.

I didn't call any of those coaches idiots. I'm simply pointing out that coaches do make mistakes...when trying to determing who will be the best QB to start. Your stupid response doesn't give any counter argument whatsoever.

 

[DolfanDonny]

This is how you post to support a player right here. Thank you for making valid points and having structure in your post. Even though I tend to disagree with wanting Cleo as a backup. Many people on here could learn how to post by using this as an example. You dont make your point of a player being good by tearing down the other players around him.
:clap: :clap:

Frankly - I agree with the premise of this post as well...thanks very much.

However, as the originator of the thread...the conversation has strayed IMO.

I never tore down another player. I'm simply trying to figure out why Cleo can't be our version of a franchise QB draftee...

"Seriously..."...who in this upcoming draft excites you at QB that we'll have a LEGITIMATE shot at?

REALLY - give us some names...

Not just you...ANYONE!

 

[adamprez2003]

Frankly - I agree with the premise of this post as well...thanks very much.

However, as the originator of the thread...the conversation has strayed IMO.

I never tore down another player. I'm simply trying to figure out why Cleo can't be our version of a franchise QB draftee...

"Seriously..."...who in this upcoming draft excites you at QB that we'll have a LEGITIMATE shot at?

REALLY - give us some names...

Not just you...ANYONE!

Brian Brohm might be available if we draft 10th. I would do that in a heartbeat and dump one of our three. And honestly I couldnt care less which one it was that we dumped

 

[DolfanDonny]

Brian Brohm might be available if we draft 10th. I would do that in a heartbeat and dump one of our three. And honestly I couldnt care less which one it was that we dumped

Would you feel he is better than Cleo at this point in Cleo's career?

 

[adamprez2003]

Would you feel he is better than Cleo at this point in Cleo's career?

Brian Brohm has beautiful touch on his passes and I think he would be ready to take the reigns in his second year possibly even the first. He can make every throw. The biggest concern with him is his durability. Lemon has a stronger arm but Brohm has better touch while still having a good arm so yes even though Lemon might be better next year, I'm pretty confident Brohm would be better in two years

 

[truwarier90]

maybe nick doesn't want another brotha playing QB after daunte got hurt, because vick and lemon would have been given a chance to play more often under any other head coach, even belechick.

 

[adamprez2003]

maybe nick doesn't want another brotha playing QB after daunte got hurt, because vick and lemon would have been given a chance to play more often under any other head coach, even belechick.

You've gotta be kidding. Jamarcus Russell ring a bell:shakeno: