Closer Look at Grier's Drafts | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Closer Look at Grier's Drafts

I think you're being way to generous with those grades. The only thing that matters is how good those players play for us and so far he's drafted zero All Pro players, 2 or 3 good players(or role players) and a bunch of bad ones. Yes, Tua (who just fell on his lap) will have to be amazing to cover up for all the blunders grier has done.
I could be a little generous, maybe seeing things through aqua-colored glasses. Still, I think if you put those 5 drafts together, the grade is probably a tick above NFL average. Maybe a C+. I get the idea about how the players play for us, but that comes down to some things that may be beyond the GM's control. A change in coaching staff and philosophy as an example.
 
I'm confused. Miami drafted good players who were traded which means it was a bad draft pick? I don't understand.

If you are referring to Tunsil and Fitzpatrick that is 2 players out of 23 total drafted between 2016-2018. What about the other 21 players selected? Furthermore while they were solid players for us Fitzpatrick wasn't an All Pro until he went to Pitt. Like I said the Bucs GM doesn't get credit for drafting HOF QB Steve Young, Bill Walsh gets credit for trading for him and developing him same for the falcons GM not getting credit for drafting HOF QB Brett Favre.

We have 3 draft classes from 2016, 2017, and 2018. Out of those 3 how many players are currently starters? How many players are making positive contributions on this team. How many are JAGS and how many are actually good players? Sure Tunsil and Fitzpatrick weren't necessarily bad picks but what about the other 21 picks?

2016

1. Laremy Tunsil LT--Gone but fine they offered a kings ransom so not too upset
2. Xavien Howard CB--starter-good player
3. Kenyan Drake RB--gone
3. Leonte Carroo Wr--gone
6. Jakeem Grant Wr--contributes--JAG
6. Jordan Lucas Cb--gone
7. Brandon Doughty Qb--gone
7. Thomas Duarte TE--gone

2017

1. Charles Harris DE--gone
2. Raekwon McMillan LB--gone
3. Cordrea Tankersley CB--gone
5. Isaac Asiata OG--gone
5. Davon Godchaux DT--starter--JAG
6. Vincent Taylor NT--gone
7. Isaiah Ford Wr.--jag

2018

1. Minkah Fitzpatrick S--gone but traded for a 1st
2. Mike Gesicki TE--Starter--good player
3. Jerome Baker LB--Starter--JAG
4. Durham Smythe TE--jag
4. Kalen Ballage RB--gone
6. Cornell Armstrong CB--gone
7. Quintin Polling LB--gone
7. Jason Sanders K--Starer

Out of 3 draft classes and 21 players not names Fitz or Tunsil we ended up with 3 good starters in Howard, Gesicki, and Sanders. That makes it bad drafting.
 
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The difference with this year is that their weren't any safe picks. We picked a ton of low floor high ceiling guys. If it works out then we officially have a good team, if not many of the whiners on here finally get a new GM with no ties to the organization. This draft felt different with all the talent in the front office that was brought in last year and the early results are quite positive in my opinion.
 
The 2016 and 2018 drafts look pretty good. The 2017 and 2019 drafts look pretty mixed. Remember, in 2019 we gave up a high round pick for Josh Rosen, who did not work out, and in 2020 we had extra picks because we let go of talented players Laremy Tunsil and Minkah Fitzpatrick, two guys with All-Star potential.
 
I’ll tell you this - JAG/Starter, etc shouldn’t be how you grade your draft choices. A lot of those guys you draft are going to start for you because you had a need there in the first place, and you’re going to make sure he starts for you so you can get reps and experience to see what he has.

Grade your draft on what you got from what you chose versus what you chose to pass up. Otherwise, decisions have no consequences.

Those are the players that are going to be beating your brains out over the next decade - because you let ‘em get away and go somewhere else.

Decisions have to have consequences in NFL front offices. If no consequences then anybody can go in there and do it.
 
With this draft and free agency, he finally got some players that make a halfway decent offensive line. That seemed to be the goal for the past decade. For that alone I give him props. Also Tannenbaum polluted some of those other drafts.
 
I just wish we had the ravens fo. Imagine what they would have done w all our picks ? They would have had half the team built out
 
If you are referring to Tunsil and Fitzpatrick that is 2 players out of 23 total drafted between 2016-2018. What about the other 21 players selected? Furthermore while they were solid players for us Fitzpatrick wasn't an All Pro until he went to Pitt. Like I said the Bucs GM doesn't get credit for drafting HOF QB Steve Young, Bill Walsh gets credit for trading for him and developing him same for the falcons GM not getting credit for drafting HOF QB Brett Favre.

We have 3 draft classes from 2016, 2017, and 2018. Out of those 3 how many players are currently starters? How many players are making positive contributions on this team. How many are JAGS and how many are actually good players? Sure Tunsil and Fitzpatrick weren't necessarily bad picks but what about the other 21 picks?

2016

1. Laremy Tunsil LT--Gone but fine they offered a kings ransom so not too upset
2. Xavien Howard CB--starter-good player
3. Kenyan Drake RB--gone
3. Leonte Carroo Wr--gone
6. Jakeem Grant Wr--contributes--JAG
6. Jordan Lucas Cb--gone
7. Brandon Doughty Qb--gone
7. Thomas Duarte TE--gone

2017

1. Charles Harris DE--gone
2. Raekwon McMillan LB--gone
3. Cordrea Tankersley CB--gone
5. Isaac Asiata OG--gone
5. Davon Godchaux DT--starter--JAG
6. Vincent Taylor NT--gone
7. Isaiah Ford Wr.--jag

2018

1. Minkah Fitzpatrick S--gone but traded for a 1st
2. Mike Gesicki TE--Starter--good player
3. Jerome Baker LB--Starter--JAG
4. Durham Smythe TE--jag
4. Kalen Ballage RB--gone
6. Cornell Armstrong CB--gone
7. Quintin Polling LB--gone
7. Jason Sanders K--Starer

Out of 3 draft classes and 21 players not names Fitz or Tunsil we ended up with 3 good starters in Howard, Gesicki, and Sanders. That makes it bad drafting.

BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE! Dead on Super.

The 2016 Draft is an D - from me. X had a good year and a half, but he hasn’t shown he can make it back yet. Grant is an average guy that makes you hold your breath with every punt return. But not in a good way. Tunsil was traded away, so there had to be something that the staff or Grier didn’t like about him.

The 2017 Draft is an F. I could have thrown darts at a board and done better than Grier on this one. His grades are starting to look like my college transcript.

The 2018 Draft is a C -. A little below average. Minkah was a head case. He’s gone. I don’t credit Grier for drafting a good player for another team by the way. Gesicki is a stud in my book. He has the potential to be great. Baker is average, but he has speed. Average pick. Jason Sanders is a 7th round gem.

As I’ve stated in the past. Grier sucks. Plain and simple. It’s time Ross blows up this fiasco of a front office before all the draft capital is wasted on guys like Charles Harris. We need to fire Grier and get rid of every scout we have. Anyone that’s been here longer than 90 days should be fired.
 
All three first round picks from 2016 to 2018 are no longer with the team. These players should be the cornerstones of your franchise right now. That’s no better than an F for Grier.
Yes, but he had the guts to tear it down, stockpile picks, and (hopefully) move the team in the right direction. Grier also created a great salary-cap situation for Miami, although early returns on 2020 free agents is not positive. I agree with others that the Tua pick, and how he plays, will be a big determining factor for Grier moving forward.
 
One has to wonder what Grier would have done with the draft capital if Tua hadn’t been injured. I think the injury made Grier’s job a bit easier. I’m pretty sure Tua would have gone top three if he hadnt been injured. That injury has saved Grier from having to make strong decisions so he wasn’t really tested
 
Imo the 2019 draft is already a bust unless guys like Dieter and van Ginkel start balling which is doubtful since they aren’t even starters. As for Wilkins I’m not a fan of drafting a DT that high unless he is a big sack guy. Good DT could be had for cheap in FA (relatively speaking)
 
It doesn't matter how Drake or Fitzpatrick or other players perform on teams outside of the Dolphins. A good draft pick is a player who performs well for the team that drafted them or at least contributes to the team that drafted them. The Tampa Bay Bucs GM doesn't get credit for drafting HOF QB Steve Young, Bill Walsh gets credit for trading for him and developing him.

A lot of those players are no longer on the Dolphins and that is the sign of bad drafting.


Just to be clear, I'm NOT defending Grier.

Someone needs to be burned at the stake for how many coaches we've chewed through over the last 20 years, and the constant roster churn that comes with it. Clearly Grier has been a voice in that process, but just because he's been in the building doesn't mean he had any pull. Only the insiders know those stories. We should hold him accountable from '16 or '17 on. And I'm well aware that many here would argue that the inability to draft a star QB is the root cause. If that's your starting position, then the book on Grier just started.

Sometimes, players doesn't fit what the team or coach needs from them, or fails to live up to their draft position -- that's on the GM for picking that player. It doesn't matter if the coach was pounding the table for that player, it's the GM's job to avoid the bust. It's not possible to get this one right 100% of the time, but it simply doesn't matter, it's on the GM. But when the player decides to tell the coach how to play them, that's on the player more than anyone else, especially with round 1 or 2 picks. Lord knows, every team digs as deep as they can on the character and mental fortitude on first round draft choices, and Fitz sure made it sound like he wanted to be a team player, but when the chips were put on the table, he decided his stats mattered more than anything else.

As for players playing well for other teams, it's hard to judge here given the coaching carousel and matching change of schemes we've been going through. I'd judge that a sign the GM did at least part of the job right by identifying a good player. Sometimes a change of scenery changes the player. Looking at some of the players we've let go, sometimes the dollars and cents for that player just doesn't make sense for the team at that moment in time. Drake was a good, not great player, who wanted more money than the team thought he was worth. I applaud those kinds of hard nosed decisions. We haven't been good at them in the past and it looks like we have a way to go to be good at them now, but I shed zero tears for Drake.

The Tampa Bay Bucks GM should get credit for drafting Steve Young. It was a great call. He and the coach should get judged harshly for loosing faith in their evaluation of him and loosing out on the amazing player he later turned into.

Our drafted players playing well on other teams can be a sign of bad drafting, but in our case, it's more likely a result of a constant coaching churn and the scheme changes that come with that, coupled with a major rebuild. That being said, Grier is on my bubble. I don't think he cares very much as I'm not going to be signing his checks anytime in his future.
 
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