Co-Offensive Coordinators a Strong Sign of RPO Being Prominent?

[anthonyvfrancis1989]

The more and more I think about it: Godsey being the former TE’s coach and then assuming the role of working with Tua, and Studesville being this highly praised (by Flo) ground game genius, all kind of suggests a running game coordinator and a passing game coordinator. This idea seems to have some people in an uproar about exactly who will be calling the plays come the regular season. However, given our usage of the RPO system last year and Tua’s college experience in similar systems, wouldn’t it make a lot of sense if the play calling was designed in a cooperative effort? Each play call would include both a run and pass, where each co-coordinator would be assigned the responsibility of their portion of the play call. Obviously play design and schemes would require both co-coordinators building off of each other to utilize packages that actually worked in terms of assignments and personnel.

Personally, I think the final nod goes to Godsey, as I assume building the passing schemes off of the running game makes more sense and is more complex. But, it certainly doesn’t seem so pessimistic for such a collaborative effort to exist.

 

[Tua808]

2 things must happen to having a better year, increase at skill talent and how long the chemistry can gel.

 

[Mach2]

The more and more I think about it: Godsey being the former TE’s coach and then assuming the role of working with Tua, and Studesville being this highly praised (by Flo) ground game genius, all kind of suggests a running game coordinator and a passing game coordinator. This idea seems to have some people in an uproar about exactly who will be calling the plays come the regular season. However, given our usage of the RPO system last year and Tua’s college experience in similar systems, wouldn’t it make a lot of sense if the play calling was designed in a cooperative effort? Each play call would include both a run and pass, where each co-coordinator would be assigned the responsibility of their portion of the play call. Obviously play design and schemes would require both co-coordinators building off of each other to utilize packages that actually worked in terms of assignments and personnel.

Personally, I think the final nod goes to Godsey, as I assume building the passing schemes off of the running game makes more sense and is more complex. But, it certainly doesn’t seem so pessimistic for such a collaborative effort to exist.

I'm not sure that was one of the driving factors, but it can never hurt to have more experience attacking a problem, as long as they are working in concert.

While I like RPO concepts to a point in general, I don't think it can be the main focus of an NFL offense. It's really just a way to employ a post snap audible.

By virtue of the fact that the linemen are run blocking regardless, if the ball doesn't come out immediately, illegal man downfield penalties are inherent. That really limits pattern development, and route depth.

I think it's good tool to have in the toolbox, but it isn't a Swiss Army Knife.

 

[andyahs]

I expect Godsey, Studds and Frye to design the playbook with Studds calling the plays from the booth and Godsey on the field with Tua since they have a good relationship.

I am not concerned with who does what but intrigued on how it will work in the end and the more I think about the more I like it.

 

[Dolphins81]

I think it is going to flow about as well as having multiple managers working the same shift.

 

[Danny]

The main thing is consistency. You can have 5 OC's but you need one calling the plays and he's really the main guy. This is not college and you better not get cute cause that won't work for very long. You need to have your offense in place and then have one guy calling plays. It's ok for the other guy to make suggestions based on what he sees but only one calling the plays for the whole game.

 

[Mach2]

The main thing is consistency. You can have 5 OC's but you need one calling the plays and he's really the main guy. This is not college and you better not get cute cause that won't work for very long. You need to have your offense in place and then have one guy calling plays. It's ok for the other guy to make suggestions based on what he sees but only one calling the plays for the whole game.

I would like to think they wouldn't try to have two guys simultaneously calling plays. That's not a workable solution, IMO.

I really doubt they envision any thing like that.

On the other hand, I could see a potential benifit for in game adjustments.

For example, the run game half of the duo would be able to focus entirely on blocking scheme mismatches/tendancies to the linebacker level, while pass guy puts his emphasis on linebacker/secondary play.

I do think it would be a mistake for the guy calling plays to have multiple ppl constantly in his ear though.

 

[anthonyvfrancis1989]

I would like to think they wouldn't try to have two guys simultaneously calling plays. That's not a workable solution, IMO.

I really doubt they envision any thing like that.

On the other hand, I could see a potential benifit for in game adjustments.

For example, the run game half of the duo would be able to focus entirely on blocking scheme mismatches/tendancies to the linebacker level, while pass guy puts his emphasis on linebacker/secondary play.

I do think it would be a mistake for the guy calling plays to have multiple ppl constantly in his ear though.

This, along with actual play design, is more inline with what I was thinking. If it is a collaborative effort in building the play schemes, both coordinators would be in agreement with their portion of the play - in the case of an RPO-based offence. As, I’m sure, they’d determine the rushing assignments and passing assignments to address the same fronts, coverages, and systems they’d be encountering (i.e. certain run plays, motions, and blocking assignments would match up with certain routes and downfield schemes).

I am totally in agreement that one individual will be calling the shots come game day - most likely the individual with the higher involvement in the passing portion of the scheme and, as mentioned, this does really free up the ability to focus on specific elements of the game for adjustments.

 

[Digital]

I definitely think they want to implement the RPO. Given Tua's injury history, I'm not a fan of this, but it looks to be in our future so ... it is what it is. Assuming Tua can display durability--which is a big assumption--then this offense would fit him. While he's no Lamar, Kyler, or Cam, he's got average NFL quickness and a little shiftiness, despite his top end speed not being great. The play structure should create opportunities for the QB and Tua can get yards this way and become a running threat. When plays break down, he definitely can get some check-down yardage via runs rather than check-down passes. I see this offense being productive in general, and Tua's stats looking decent. But, I don't see us building a great offense with this around Tua, so we'll need to continue being a defense-first team. Fortunately, Tua is exceptionally good at holding on to the ball both as a passer and runner.

Great QB's scramble to allow their WR's time to get open. We consistently see this from guys like Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Patrick Mahomes. Personally, I believe this offense would be best served with Tua using his mobility to buy time like these guys. Sure, they run, and yes they run RPO's, especially Mahomes. But, IMHO, these guys primarily are pocket passers who scramble to give their receivers time to get open deep, and they have the cannon arms to throw it deep and make huge chunk gains with those cannon arms. Tua doesn't have that type of arm, so when he scrambles, we may not see as many deep passes, but I still think it is more beneficial for him to buy time to attempt those deeper throws than it is to take the 7 yard gain, particularly on a 3rd and 10. How this offense is implemented matters. If the RPO is one of a variety of attack philosophies, then I'm on board. But if we're expecting Tua to power this offense forward through a constant ever-present threat of a run, well that's just begging to get him injured, and I'm not on-board with this concept. My opinion is irrelevant, because the Dolphins are going to do what they want to do. I fully expect the RPO to be implemented. But if it is our primary approach, just don't be surprised if we become the team that every year is saying we could have been a contender if our QB hadn't gotten injured. And much like the treadmill of mediocrity never allowing us to become great ... I will continue to be a fan, and go back to the purgatory of Dolphin fandom.

 

[Digital]

I expect Godsey, Studds and Frye to design the playbook with Studds calling the plays from the booth and Godsey on the field with Tua since they have a good relationship.

I am not concerned with who does what but intrigued on how it will work in the end and the more I think about the more I like it.

This is a very real possibility. But, I would expect Studds to be on the sideline, probably with Godsey in the booth, or some form of swapping of time in the booth vs. sidelines. Don't be surprised if Frye is given a lot of input in play selection as well, and very astute of you to point out his importance.

 

[Digital]

I would like to think they wouldn't try to have two guys simultaneously calling plays. That's not a workable solution, IMO.

I really doubt they envision any thing like that.

On the other hand, I could see a potential benifit for in game adjustments.

For example, the run game half of the duo would be able to focus entirely on blocking scheme mismatches/tendancies to the linebacker level, while pass guy puts his emphasis on linebacker/secondary play.

I do think it would be a mistake for the guy calling plays to have multiple ppl constantly in his ear though.

Brother, don't be surprised if they are both given the chance to call plays. For a run of games it may be Studds and for another run of games it may be Godesy. And yes, I agree completely with you @Mach2 , this would be a disaster and absolutely promote an OC competition that would play out as drama in the locker room. But if Coach Flo pulls it off without the drama, I'll be incredibly impressed.

Ultimately, I think you mentioned the real thing in another thread (and my apologies if it was another poster who deserves the credit), but someone said that if this two-coordinators thing was such a great idea ... how come every coach and team that ever did it went back to a single OC afterwards?

 

[anthonyvfrancis1989]

I definitely think they want to implement the RPO. Given Tua's injury history, I'm not a fan of this, but it looks to be in our future so ... it is what it is. Assuming Tua can display durability--which is a big assumption--then this offense would fit him. While he's no Lamar, Kyler, or Cam, he's got average NFL quickness and a little shiftiness, despite his top end speed not being great. The play structure should create opportunities for the QB and Tua can get yards this way and become a running threat. When plays break down, he definitely can get some check-down yardage via runs rather than check-down passes. I see this offense being productive in general, and Tua's stats looking decent. But, I don't see us building a great offense with this around Tua, so we'll need to continue being a defense-first team. Fortunately, Tua is exceptionally good at holding on to the ball both as a passer and runner.

Great QB's scramble to allow their WR's time to get open. We consistently see this from guys like Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, and Patrick Mahomes. Personally, I believe this offense would be best served with Tua using his mobility to buy time like these guys. Sure, they run, and yes they run RPO's, especially Mahomes. But, IMHO, these guys primarily are pocket passers who scramble to give their receivers time to get open deep, and they have the cannon arms to throw it deep and make huge chunk gains with those cannon arms. Tua doesn't have that type of arm, so when he scrambles, we may not see as many deep passes, but I still think it is more beneficial for him to buy time to attempt those deeper throws than it is to take the 7 yard gain, particularly on a 3rd and 10. How this offense is implemented matters. If the RPO is one of a variety of attack philosophies, then I'm on board. But if we're expecting Tua to power this offense forward through a constant ever-present threat of a run, well that's just begging to get him injured, and I'm not on-board with this concept. My opinion is irrelevant, because the Dolphins are going to do what they want to do. I fully expect the RPO to be implemented. But if it is our primary approach, just don't be surprised if we become the team that every year is saying we could have been a contender if our QB hadn't gotten injured. And much like the treadmill of mediocrity never allowing us to become great ... I will continue to be a fan, and go back to the purgatory of Dolphin fandom.

I don’t foresee Tua being the bulk of the run portion of the option in this RPO system. In fact, I don’t see him being much of it at all. I see this system, combined with lots of motion and effective blocking schemes, allowing us to develop more of an effective running game.

From what I can see, Tua has great vision, deadly accuracy, and a very fast release. If we can establish a running game and effectively keep the defences guessing then that is really going to open up the short to intermediate passing game. If executed well we could utilize this to really play to Tua’s strengths and possibly even dominate other teams (if we can get the right personnel in there and start to see some separation).

 

[Mach2]

Brother, don't be surprised if they are both given the chance to call plays. For a run of games it may be Studds and for another run of games it may be Godesy. And yes, I agree completely with you @Mach2 , this would be a disaster and absolutely promote an OC competition that would play out as drama in the locker room. But if Coach Flo pulls it off without the drama, I'll be incredibly impressed.

Ultimately, I think you mentioned the real thing in another thread (and my apologies if it was another poster who deserves the credit), but someone said that if this two-coordinators thing was such a great idea ... how come every coach and team that ever did it went back to a single OC afterwards?

Wasn't me. I think more is being made of "titles" than what is actually there. I have every confidence that Flo has well defined roles on game day for each of them.

As to your other post, concerning RPO offensive concepts, I don't think it is what you believe it to be.

@NBP81 has an OP with a link that contains a video of Sark, who used it with the Falcons as well as Alabama, doing a coaching seminar that is very good, and lays out exactly what RPO is within the context of a larger overall philosophy.

Well worth the time if you want to get a better handle on RPO.

Nice breakdown of an offense Tua thrived in.

There's the clinic video by Sarkasian followed by a written breakdown of some of the popular plays in the system Tua played under in 2019. https://www.burntorangenation.com/2021/1/11/22224185/steve-sarkisian-offense-base-play-run-pass-options

finheaven.com

 

[Digital]

I don’t foresee Tua being the bulk of the run portion of the option in this RPO system. In fact, I don’t see him being much of it at all. I see this system, combined with lots of motion and effective blocking schemes, allowing us to develop more of an effective running game.

From what I can see, Tua has great vision, deadly accuracy, and a very fast release. If we can establish a running game and effectively keep the defences guessing then that is really going to open up the short to intermediate passing game. If executed well we could utilize this to really play to Tua’s strengths and possibly even dominate other teams (if we can get the right personnel in there and start to see some separation).

While I am not quite as enthusiastic about my assessment of Tua as you, I do agree that those are his strengths. And, from my perspective, I hope the RPO is implemented as you have described it. But, for the RPO to be effective, the LB's need to fear the run from the QB, or else it is just a rollout pass play or a sweep run play. The advantage of the RPO is that it forces defenders to commit to what they are going to stop. If they choose to stop the RB, then the options are to throw or for the QB to run. In today's pass-first NFL, there are a lot of DB's already in place to prevent the pass, so the one good option is the QB run. If the QB doesn't run ... then the RPO fails in its main mission of removing one defender from the coverage scheme.

If Tua does run a lot ... I expect him to get injured. He is shifty, but not as shifty as Kyler Murray. He isn't as big or fast as Cam or Lamar. He will get hit hard, more than occasionally. I'm hoping his RPO's are more like how Aaron Rodgers is used, rarely, and at the goal line or on the occasional 3rd and short. I also hope to see Tua treat it the way Russel Wilson does, comfortably ducking out of bounds a few yards before the hit, or sliding well before the hit. IMHO, durability is a major weakness of Tua, and opening him up to hits is a bad idea. He's not big, and he hasn't shown himself to be an ironman like the 6'5 guys Ben Roethlisberger or Phillip Rivers. Inviting collision hits on him is simply a bad idea, IMHO. But, I do hope you are right.

 

[Mach2]

While I am not quite as enthusiastic about my assessment of Tua as you, I do agree that those are his strengths. And, from my perspective, I hope the RPO is implemented as you have described it. But, for the RPO to be effective, the LB's need to fear the run from the QB, or else it is just a rollout pass play or a sweep run play. The advantage of the RPO is that it forces defenders to commit to what they are going to stop. If they choose to stop the RB, then the options are to throw or for the QB to run. In today's pass-first NFL, there are a lot of DB's already in place to prevent the pass, so the one good option is the QB run. If the QB doesn't run ... then the RPO fails in its main mission of removing one defender from the coverage scheme.

If Tua does run a lot ... I expect him to get injured. He is shifty, but not as shifty as Kyler Murray. He isn't as big or fast as Cam or Lamar. He will get hit hard, more than occasionally. I'm hoping his RPO's are more like how Aaron Rodgers is used, rarely, and at the goal line or on the occasional 3rd and short. I also hope to see Tua treat it the way Russel Wilson does, comfortably ducking out of bounds a few yards before the hit, or sliding well before the hit. IMHO, durability is a major weakness of Tua, and opening him up to hits is a bad idea. He's not big, and he hasn't shown himself to be an ironman like the 6'5 guys Ben Roethlisberger or Phillip Rivers. Inviting collision hits on him is simply a bad idea, IMHO. But, I do hope you are right.

You are making a mistake thinking RPO involves a lot of QB runs. That's only a last resort, as in any other situations. It isn't really a part of the philosophy.

Its not a QB option concept, though the nomenclature may indicate otherwise.