Commentary: Defending hope (merged) | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Commentary: Defending hope (merged)

finzfan4life said:
Good commentary but one thing, 1982 Dolphins were coached by Don Shula and the 2004 Dolphins are coached by Dave Pornstache. Big difference.
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:shakeno: I can't argue with these people anymore...
 
"Defending Hope" with our Defense

I just read the article on the site entitled "Defending Hope". It was a great read, and everyone should check it out. It brings up a good points, comparing our team we are heading into the season with.......with the recent Tampa Bay and Baltimore Superbowl teams.

Our offense is going to be very adverage at best this season, there just is not 2 ways around it. If we finish better than 16th I will be happy with that, and I doubt we will. The Ravens/Bucs teams are known for having 2 of the worst offenses of Super-Bowl winning teams.....with 2 of the best defenses, of course. We are going to have to follow the same exact course to the title they did. Its sad, because I am just as horribly sick of seeing us play so conservative I could just die, but the fact is...even more this year than with ricky, we HAVE to play as conservative as possible, even more conservative in years passed. When David went down, our conservation level went up 10-fold.....it's simply all we possibly can do. Its not a matter of wanting to or not. We have to to compete. Jay or A.J.....it doesnt matter. We have to play strong rb-by-commitee and just cut-down on turnovers.....and hope for a tyrannical Defensive domination. That is our only hope of a super-bowl birth, and maybe even a playoff birth.

So my question to everyone is very simple......being everything the way it is....Is our defense, CAN our defense be good enough to carry the team to the playoffs and beyond? It will have to stay strong for the entire season, dominate and destroy, just like the Ravens and Bucs did. Can we be that good? Can we be that dominating? If we finally want to play in january, we are going to have to.
 
I would not count on our D to be as dominating as my personal non-Phins fav - the 1986 LT-led Giants. The new pass INT rule enforcement may cause us to give away even more first downs on 3rd and long than we do and our FSs are unproven. Our run is as good as there is, so why run on us ?
 
RunTravisRun I don't think that Signature is legal, just a suggestion I would change it before the mods make you.
 
finzfan4life said:
Good commentary but one thing, 1982 Dolphins were coached by Don Shula and the 2004 Dolphins are coached by Dave Pornstache. Big difference.
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:roflmao:

Okay, not that I got that out of my system. It is fairly well written, but it is based on some faulty assumptions in my opinion. I have to agree with the sentiment above that, facial hair aside, Wanny is not Shula, nor is he on the level with some of the coaches that he will have to beat in order to succeed this season, and in the playoffs. Look at the coaches that have been in the playoffs in the past five or six years consistently, guys like Belichick (obligatory homerism), Herm Edwards (decent coach, poor front office), Fox, Del Rio, Parcells, Jeff Fisher, Billick, Capers, Holmgren, Shanahan...(and believe it or not, even Mike Martz) etc. Wanny isn't in that company.

Secondly, I think it relies too much on the defense. Sure Baltimore (under Billick) won a SB without an explosive offense, but it was none the less a power offense. And that defense that year was better than Miami's right now. I don't think you need and explosive offense, but you do need a very workmanlike one. It needs to be efficient. Tampa Bay's offense might have been the worst of all the recent teams to win, but it didn't ever beat itself, and it was based on a strong running game. Miami comes up a little short on the offense in terms of efficiency, and a little short on the defense in terms of being dominating -- consistently so.
 
PatriotGOD said:
Tampa Bay's offense might have been the worst of all the recent teams to win, but it didn't ever beat itself, and it was based on a strong running game.
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Check your facts, bro. The Bucs finished 27th in rushing yards, 28th in yards per carry and dead last in rushing touchdowns that year.

http://pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam2002.htm
 
PatriotGOD said:
:roflmao:

Okay, not that I got that out of my system. It is fairly well written, but it is based on some faulty assumptions in my opinion. I have to agree with the sentiment above that, facial hair aside, Wanny is not Shula, nor is he on the level with some of the coaches that he will have to beat in order to succeed this season, and in the playoffs. Look at the coaches that have been in the playoffs in the past five or six years consistently, guys like Belichick (obligatory homerism), Herm Edwards (decent coach, poor front office), Fox, Del Rio, Parcells, Jeff Fisher, Billick, Capers, Holmgren, Shanahan...(and believe it or not, even Mike Martz) etc. Wanny isn't in that company.

Secondly, I think it relies too much on the defense. Sure Baltimore (under Billick) won a SB without an explosive offense, but it was none the less a power offense. And that defense that year was better than Miami's right now. I don't think you need and explosive offense, but you do need a very workmanlike one. It needs to be efficient. Tampa Bay's offense might have been the worst of all the recent teams to win, but it didn't ever beat itself, and it was based on a strong running game. Miami comes up a little short on the offense in terms of efficiency, and a little short on the defense in terms of being dominating -- consistently so.
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First of all, how many playoff appearances have Del Rio, Edwards, Holmgren and Capers had recently? I think Wanny's record favors pretty comparably.

Second, you mention that for a team's defense to carry a team to the Super Bowl, the offense needs to be "workmanlike" and "efficient."

Which is pretty much what I said.
The offense will have its role to play, of course. Unfortunately, this will most often be avoiding giving games away, while the defense tries to take them away.
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And thanks to Phunwin for bringing up the Tampa Bay stats. Take your pick: passing or running. That offense was practically nonexistent.
 
DrAstroZoom said:
First of all, how many playoff appearances have Del Rio, Edwards, Holmgren and Capers had recently? I think Wanny's record favors pretty comparably.
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Just to back up my fellow columnist and partner-in-crime...
Is there a more overrated coach in recent history than Mike Holmgren? I mean, isn't it pretty obvious by now that Brett Favre carried his pudgy, walrus @$$?
Shanahan's getting there, too. Every year that goes by without John Elway, ol' one eye looks dumber.
Martz is a buffoon. Amazing but true: if Wannstedt was coaching the Rams in SB 36, they beat the Patriots. In fact, if any coach who can place the words "running" and "game" in the same sentence is coaching the Rams that year, they beat the Patriots. Bill Belichick played nickel and dime defenses most of the game and dared the Rams to beat them with Faulk, because he knew Martz couldn't bring himself to do it. Wannstedt is no genius, and it's debatable whether he should be coaching at all, but he's got the common sense he was born with.

Second, you mention that for a team's defense to carry a team to the Super Bowl, the offense needs to be "workmanlike" and "efficient."

Which is pretty much what I said.

And thanks to Phunwin for bringing up the Tampa Bay stats. Take your pick: passing or running. That offense was practically nonexistent.
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My pleasure.
How did Tampa Bay win? Brad Johnson played mistake-free football for the vast majority of the season and made some plays here and there. Trent Dilfer avoided mistakes completely and leaned on Jamal Lewis. Both offenses did just enough to get the job done consistently. It can be done, and it has been done.
 
DrAstroZoom said:
First of all, how many playoff appearances have Del Rio, Edwards, Holmgren and Capers had recently? I think Wanny's record favors pretty comparably.
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I was saying that Wannstedt isn't in the league of those coaches, NOT just the ones you singled out. I don't think he is. Maybe Del Rio and Capers were poor examples but I would personally take them over Wanny. Give them a year or two, they are moving in the right direction.

If you want to compare them on that basis:

Parcells 11 Wins
Holmgren 9 Since you asked.
Bill Cowher 7
Belichick 7
Fischer 5
Billick 5
Gruden 5
Andy Reid 5
Dungy 4
Dennis Green 4
Coughlin 4
Fox 3
Martz 2
Wannstedt 2 (1 with the Bears)
Herm Edwards 1
Capers 1
Dell Rio 0

That's all I've got time for right now.
 
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