Commentary: Marlins Future Up in Air | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Commentary: Marlins Future Up in Air

Everything you ever wanted to know or didn't about the Marlins situation.
 
Nice work, Perry!

A couple questions/comments...
1. I didn't realize that Mota was part of the Beckett deal. That seemed to really fly under the radar.
2. Petit will not pitch for the Marlins in 2006 unless there's something very unexpected. He's 20 years old and got shelled in 3 AAA starts last year. He might be a late-season callup, but that's all. Look for an impact in 2007.
3. Hagerstown is a Class A team, not AA. The Mets' AA team is in Binghamton, NY. Do your research...or at least consult with your friendly neighborhood Mets fan. ;)

You raise some excellent points about the viability of a Vegas franchise, and I think the more it's discussed, the more that will come out. Also worth mentioning is the fact that Vegas relies heavily on a transient population; not a lot of "roots" in the community.
 
Good article. You made a lot of interesting points and give some information that I, myself, wasn't aware of. I have to agree with Phunwin I don't think Petit will be on the opening day roster nor do I see Anibal Sanchez there. I think Sanchez is a year or 2 away from hitting the big leagues. I also think that Sanchez had a surgery on his shoulder (Tommy John I think) and their was quiet concern within the Red Sox organization about him and his health especially towards the end of last year when he was shut down with a tired arm. He dominated A ball but struggled a bit in Double A mainly due to his injury. Don't get me wrong when healthy Anibal is a very good pitcher. I've seen him twice pitching and he has a live arm. I like Petit even more than I like Anibal.

As for Hanley, who I also seen played 4 or 5 times, he's got a very good glove and legs however his bat isn't ready for the big leagues. Although the best place to learn how to hit in the big leagues is in the big leagues. The only knock on Hanley was that he was lazy and had a bad work ethic and also loved to read his name in the newspapers. I really do hope both Hanley and Anibal work out for the Marlins.

I know the Red Sox Front Office was very high on Delgado towards the end of the season as he got a lot of outs by ground ball as well as strike out. Harvey Garcia was recently added to the 40 man roster which also shows the Sox were impressed with his stuff in A ball because they were worried he'd be taken in the Rule 5 Draft.

If the Marlins move to Vegas, I'm sure they would need a retractable roof there too due to the heat, like in Arizona. I personally think that Loria is trying to do a powerplay and force Miami to build them a new stadium however I also think he's willing to move the team if needed too.

In my opinion the best place for the Marlins would be Miami with a new field then Vegas. Portland would be the third bet followed by Carolina. I think that having a team in Mexico or Puerto Rico would be a terrible idea mainly because of the lack of wealth in those two areas. If the Marlins can't make money in Miami how can they expect to draw in Mexico or Puerto Rico especially if they charge 35 bucks for a ticket?
 
Ray Finkle said:
In my opinion the best place for the Marlins would be Miami with a new field then Vegas.
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How can anyone still say this? The franchise has won 2 world series in 7 years and they still can't draw fans. You seriously think a new stadium will change anything??????? THEY WON THE WORLD F'N SERIES TWICE!!!!! People just don't care down there. They won't go to the games. Period. End of story.
 
MikeO said:
How can anyone still say this? The franchise has won 2 world series in 7 years and they still can't draw fans. You seriously think a new stadium will change anything??????? THEY WON THE WORLD F'N SERIES TWICE!!!!! People just don't care down there. They won't go to the games. Period. End of story.
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I would tend to agree with you, except I've been to games where randomly 40,000 people showed up on a particular night. I wish it was the norm, but it happens every once in a while. I think the TV ratings indicate that people are interested but use a lot of the 5 complaints I listed, and a stadium with a roof would take care of a lot of that.

Phil, one too many As from me for Psomas. That's what happens when you write a huge article and there's no editor...I'm sure you know how difficult it is to edit your own work. Petit tore up AA BINGHAMTON (happy? :lol: ), and Florida hasn't been shy in promoting players from AA lately. Willis, Cabrera, Hermida, Ben Howard, Chris Resop, Randy Messenger, Jason Vargas, Scott Olsen, and Josh Johnson have all come straight from AA with varying success, mostly good, and there's no real reason not to get him acclimated sooner. If we're going to lose, I'd rather lose with Petit or any of the others on the mound as opposed to Ismael Valdez.

Ray, the bad work ethic and laziness for Hanley came directly from seeing his name in the papers. Now, first of all, Florida's writers aren't as hyper, and when he's in the majors, hype ends and numbers count. Simple as that. And I think his bat will catch up to the rest of his game. Once again, I'd rather lose with him there as opposed to Royce Clayton.
 
I guess no one liked/got to the juicy A.J. Burnett news. I outscooped all of South Florida's media on the Cards coming to town, but I can't reveal the source. :wink:
 
MikeO said:
How can anyone still say this? The franchise has won 2 world series in 7 years and they still can't draw fans. You seriously think a new stadium will change anything??????? THEY WON THE WORLD F'N SERIES TWICE!!!!! People just don't care down there. They won't go to the games. Period. End of story.
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I say this because of a few reasons:

1.) The franchise is still young it's less than 15 years old, many of the big fan base are young as they get older they can go to games on their own. Take Perry for example, he grew up with the Marlins and as he gets older I'm sure he'll continue to go to games on his own. Most of the Marlins core fans are probably his age or younger. Again as the core fans get older they'll attend more games. As the core fans have kids they will become Marlin fans. Building a following for a team is hard to do. Especially considering that FL has been the place for Spring Training for years, the younger people are fans of which ever team practices near them. Hence why people from Tampa are huge Yankee fans. Or why people in Arizona are huge Cub fans.

2.) Building a new stadium = more people going to games. It has helped franchises like Seattle and the Brewers recently. I'm sure that teams with newer stadiums have higher attendance. It did wonders for the Cleveland Indians back in the early 90s who had kids playing (Manny, Thome) as well as veterns (Roberto and Sandy Alomar, Albert Belle, Omar). When the Marlins get a new stadium they'll be just like the Indians with a core of good young players (Hanley, Anibal, Petit, etc.) as well as a core of veterns that have been on the team (Willis, Miggy, etc.).

3.) More people in Miami area than Las Vegas

4.) Most of the people in Vegas are tourists there for gambling and entertainment. It's easy to say that people like me and you would go to a baseball game but would an average person take 3 to 3 and a half hours of the day/night to go to a baseball game? Especially with a wife and family?

5.) If they do build a stadium in Vegas it won't be walking distance away from a hotel or the strip. Do people want to bother with driving there?

I honestly think that the best thing for the Marlins would be to stay and build a new stadium. I know people aren't going to games but you'd be very surprised what a new stadium would do, also because it will be the Marlins they will be able to get more revenue without having to pay Wayne H. for using his place.
 
RWhitney014 said:
Ray, the bad work ethic and laziness for Hanley came directly from seeing his name in the papers. Now, first of all, Florida's writers aren't as hyper, and when he's in the majors, hype ends and numbers count. Simple as that. And I think his bat will catch up to the rest of his game. Once again, I'd rather lose with him there as opposed to Royce Clayton.
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I agree that I'd rather have Hanley there and go through his ups and downs instead of Clayton or Alex Gonzalez. I LOVE Hanley, I think he's going to be a good player, he brings a lot of energy to the game and he has charisma to put asssses in seats. He's probably the best thing for the Marlins besides the D-Train. He's just a kid that likes to play ball.

I just hope that he gets his head on right because with a little more work he can become great. He just has some issues with his work ethic but again he's still young. He'll be 22 in the end of December so he'll learn in time.
 
Well, both areas have a very mixed population. Transient is the word I've seen used a lot by various parts, but when you have New Yorkers and Midwesterners comprising a lot of the population here, it takes a while to build that base up.

But yeah, I do think South Florida is still a good option if the park is in the right place. South Miami was not the right place. It would have alienated most people north of Fort Lauderdale from going to games, especially during the week. The Orange Bowl is an hour's drive from me on a Saturday...with 5/6 o'clock rush hour traffic on a Wednesday, no one would go that far to see a game.
 
Ray Finkle said:
I say this because of a few reasons:

1.) The franchise is still young it's less than 15 years old, many of the big fan base are young as they get older they can go to games on their own. Take Perry for example, he grew up with the Marlins and as he gets older I'm sure he'll continue to go to games on his own. Most of the Marlins core fans are probably his age or younger. Again as the core fans get older they'll attend more games. As the core fans have kids they will become Marlin fans. Building a following for a team is hard to do. Especially considering that FL has been the place for Spring Training for years, the younger people are fans of which ever team practices near them. Hence why people from Tampa are huge Yankee fans. Or why people in Arizona are huge Cub fans.

2.) Building a new stadium = more people going to games. It has helped franchises like Seattle and the Brewers recently. I'm sure that teams with newer stadiums have higher attendance. It did wonders for the Cleveland Indians back in the early 90s who had kids playing (Manny, Thome) as well as veterns (Roberto and Sandy Alomar, Albert Belle, Omar). When the Marlins get a new stadium they'll be just like the Indians with a core of good young players (Hanley, Anibal, Petit, etc.) as well as a core of veterns that have been on the team (Willis, Miggy, etc.).

3.) More people in Miami area than Las Vegas

4.) Most of the people in Vegas are tourists there for gambling and entertainment. It's easy to say that people like me and you would go to a baseball game but would an average person take 3 to 3 and a half hours of the day/night to go to a baseball game? Especially with a wife and family?

5.) If they do build a stadium in Vegas it won't be walking distance away from a hotel or the strip. Do people want to bother with driving there?

I honestly think that the best thing for the Marlins would be to stay and build a new stadium. I know people aren't going to games but you'd be very surprised what a new stadium would do, also because it will be the Marlins they will be able to get more revenue without having to pay Wayne H. for using his place.
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They have built 2 new stadiums for the Heat in recent years and people don't even go to those games. The Hurricanes can't draw fans. The Panthers can't. The Heat can't. The DOLPHINSN can't. The Marlins can't, and having 81 home games makes it impossible to turn a profit.

It's over. The Marlins are GONE! They have just sold off every player they have esentially except one or two and they have waved the white flag.

A new stadium in Miami will NOT.......let me say it agian........will NOT draw fans. The problem isn't the stadium. It's the area.

I won't even get into the Vegas part of this because you couldn't be more wrong on that also.
 
MikeO said:
They have built 2 new stadiums for the Heat in recent years and people don't even go to those games. The Hurricanes can't draw fans. The Panthers can't. The Heat can't. The DOLPHINSN can't. The Marlins can't, and having 81 home games makes it impossible to turn a profit.

It's over. The Marlins are GONE! They have just sold off every player they have esentially except one or two and they have waved the white flag.

A new stadium in Miami will NOT.......let me say it agian........will NOT draw fans. The problem isn't the stadium. It's the area.

I won't even get into the Vegas part of this because you couldn't be more wrong on that also.
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The Heat have virtually sold out every game since Shaq came. Whether people show up or not is a different story, but it doesn't matter.

Ha, reminds me of a Heat game in Cleveland in 2002, before Lebron. Longtime announcer Eric Reid is talking the whole night about how empty the arena is, and towards the end of the game, they announce the attendance as 12,000 or something, "which means that here in Cleveland, they count by twos."

It cracked me up. :lol:

And I couldn't be more wrong on Vegas? I'm interested to hear why.
 
You have 2 major sports leagues (NBA and MLB) fighting tooth and nail to get a franchise in Vegas first. Because each feel the city can only house 1 major sports team. Which is why the NBA ALL STAR game in 2007 is going to be held there. Even though there is no NBA franchise in Vegas.

They know its a tourism city. They know there is no arena in place to house a full time team. Bottom line is their research has told BOTH that if a team is there in that city (for either sport) it would be profitable and draw fans.

They feel that there are enough locals who would support a team on a full time basis, that all they need is a small portion of that "tourism" group to go to games to make the team profitable. And oh yeah.........GAMBLING!!!!! This would be the one place where LEGALLY you could go to a major sporting event (non horse racing), PLACE BETS, then go walk to your seat and watch what you just bet on.
 
MikeO said:
You have 2 major sports leagues (NBA and MLB) fighting tooth and nail to get a franchise in Vegas first. Because each feel the city can only house 1 major sports team. Which is why the NBA ALL STAR game in 2007 is going to be held there. Even though there is no NBA franchise in Vegas.

They know its a tourism city. They know there is no arena in place to house a full time team. Bottom line is their research has told BOTH that if a team is there in that city (for either sport) it would be profitable and draw fans.

They feel that there are enough locals who would support a team on a full time basis, that all they need is a small portion of that "tourism" group to go to games to make the team profitable. And oh yeah.........GAMBLING!!!!! This would be the one place where LEGALLY you could go to a major sporting event (non horse racing), PLACE BETS, then go walk to your seat and watch what you just bet on.
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I think basketball is a great idea for Vegas. There's precedent that a professional basketball team in a casino can work...the WNBA's Connecticut Sun play in the Mohegan Sun Casino and they draw pretty well for WNBA standards. It would work in Vegas because there's a set amount of time, it could fit on the strip, and the attitude of basketball kinda fits with the aura of the city. They'd have to bar gambling on the team's games, though, to prevent players and coaches from getting involved. MLB especially would be gunshy about that after the Pete Rose scandal. Most importantly, though, you can build an arena in one of the casinos - someone will find a way to get that to work - and it's easy to survive on 15,000 people a night, especially if that's capacity. Baseball needs double that at the least to survive. Basketball is an activity, something people go to to be seen as much as to see a game. Baseball is leisurely, relaxing, quiet, and a far cry from what people are looking for when they come to Vegas, especially if it's off the strip.

So basketball, yes. Baseball, no. Different creatures.
 
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