Commentary: Now It's Officially Over | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Commentary: Now It's Officially Over

byroan

☠️ Banned ☠️
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
18,503
Reaction score
1
I disagree with the remark about Marty Booker. He is not an average receiver. I don't see what was wrong with taking Will Poole either. He was easily the BPA at the time as he was suppose to be a early first day pick.
 

DolphinDevil28

I like boobs.
Club Member
Joined
May 3, 2003
Messages
14,035
Reaction score
393
Age
37
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
byroan is correct. Marty Booker is far from average.

By the way, how did O-gun do last year now that he didn't have J.T. opposite him???

EDIT: I do, however look forward to a new regime and am completely happy that every trace of the Wanny era is gone.
 

King Nate

His Majesty
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
4,183
Reaction score
0
Location
Orlando, Florida
Yeah and the article makes note of that the phins had a bunch of defensive backs that we didn't need too. I don't know about you guys but I'm glad we have them all now considering Poole got hurt and Surtain was traded.
 

touborg

Board Linebacker
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Messages
4,437
Reaction score
1
Age
39
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
They are all gone and the end of the Wannstedt-Spielman era is now complete.

Ah, that 1 year has suddenly turned into an era. I wonder if there are any other 1 year eras.

--Trades a second round pick for AJ Feeley.

It's funny how 99% of the fans wanted "anyone but Fiedler", but when we didn't get the next Dan Marino, everyone was screaming. The Phins were forced to try someone else, and whether or not that works out has yet to be seen. If it wasnt because of massive pressure (by us) that trade would never have gone down. As much as I don't think this trade is the best thing since sliced bread, us the fans have blood on our hands.



--Prior to the 2004 season the Dolphins offensive line was downright terrible. Players like Tim Ruddy, Todd Perry, Todd Wade, and Jamie Nails were run out of town. Who did Rick bring in to replace these people? The answer is essentially nobody. How can the biggest weakness on your team get essentially no attention in your first off-season as GM? We enter the 2004 season with an offensive line worse than the one the year before.

Who did Houck, arguably the best OL coach in the league (Gibs is only working as a consultant due to his mental state), bring in this year? The correct answer is pretty much nobody, because Spielmans people are slated to start. Oh and on a sidenote, you write our team got no attention in Spielmans only year, yet we brought more OL people in last year than we did this year. I'll leave it at that.

-Oh wait, then there was Vernon Carey. And the trading of a 4th round pick to move up 1 spot, yes 1 spot to take Vernon Carey. The same Vernon Carey who couldn't crack the starting lineup on maybe the worst offensive line in the entire league last year. Why give up a 4th round pick to take this guy? Once again, Rick overpaying in a trade for a guy who isn't worth it. Take Vernon at the spot Miami is drafting, no problem. If he is a bust there, you don't complain. Give up a pick to move up to take him and if he is a bust, then you have a serious issue with the decision making of the GM.

I agree for once. Moving up to grab Carey was a mistake. But on the other hand, OL is not a position where people make an instant impact. In fact, apart from QB, imo OL is one of the most developmental positions. If Carey does not start this year, I'll agrre that he was a bust, and moving up for him was a mistake. But then again, every fan was crying for improvement, and we were all happy when we got him, but now we are trying to wash our hands.

--The O-Gun situation was a total and complete joke on every level. It started the day after the 2003 season eded when the Fins knew going into the off-season that O-Gun was going to hold-out and if he didn't get an extension he wasn't showing up for training camp, Week 1, and pretty much he wasn't showing up until he had to by league rules. Miami couldn't pay him, it wasn't even an option. Spielman sat on his hands and did nothing except get into a pissing contest with Drew Rosenhaus. February, March, nothing....April...draft day. Trade offers for O-Gun are coming in, Spielman does nothing. May, June, July....still nothing. Come August when Spielman realizes that O-Gun isn't kidding around and he isn't showing up, he is forced to make a bad trade with the Bears. Yes, Marty Booker is a good player but you don't trade the conference leader in sacks for an average wide receiver. That is just bad value. Not to mention according to numerous reports, Spielman turned down better trade offers for O-Gun the week of the NFL Draft.

You're talking apples and oranges here. On one hand, you say that we didn't have the money to keep O-Gun, and then you proceed to say that "he is forced to make a bad trade". Buddy, if we even had the slightest chance in hell to keep him, we would. I don't know where you have the information that we could "have gotten better trades" (I'd like to see some links confirming that actually). Booker is a fine reciever, and unless you come up with a very interresting link, I think we did as well as we could.

--Lamar Gordon trade was a disaster in every way shape and form. Gordon was an injury prone player in St.Louis, anyone who is anyone in the league knew this. Speilman claiming he watched tape of every play Gordon had in the NFL, goes out and gives up a 3rd round pick for Lamar Gordon. Another panic move in the wake of Ricky leaving made by Rick Spielman that didn’t pan out. Just because Ricky left doesn't mean you once again overpay for a middle of the road player. And as expected, Gordon doesn't last more than 1 game and goes down to a season ending injury. Surprise Surprise!

Oh yea, because you would have jumped up and down if Spielman said that Minor would be our starting tailback. Gordon was the best talent, and Spielman got it, the fact that he got injured (unless you're suggesting Spielman personally pushed him) was out of his hands. Injuries yes, but the talent was the best on the market.

I have no doubt that Rick Spielman will get another GM job in the NFL.

Of course he will. Let me turn this around, who do you think is a better replacement right now? (obviously someone on the market).

The Spielman supporters will say Rick never had a chance with Ricky leaving and David Boston going down.

Absolutely. Miami about broke the olympic record in injuries, had one of the most horrible coaching teams and had a cap situation that could only make even the most hardcore fans scratch their heads, and yet still Spielman is for some reason to blame.

Don't forget that Saban is plenty excited about starting Spielmans players this year.
 

touborg

Board Linebacker
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Messages
4,437
Reaction score
1
Age
39
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
PFT:

The Dolphins have announced that G.M. Rick Spielman has decided to leave the organization. A league source tells us that Spielman was terminated by the team.

"I want to thank [owner] Wayne Huizenga, [coacj] Nick Saban, the Dolphin players, coaches, and staff, along with the South Florida community," said Spielman. "I have a lot of fond memories of my time here and made a lot of friends, and I hope the team goes on to have a great season."

As we've previously written, some folks around the league wonder why a change was necessary. Spielman did good work with the team until the roof fell in via a series of unfortunate events that began when Dan Marino backed out of an agreement to serve as team president.

Kudos to Rick for taking the high road. Saban has been interviewing replacements of late. Spielman has every right to do a little pissing and/or moaning -- and it's big of him to bite his tongue.

Never actually expected to agree with PFT on anything. I guess pigs do fly =).
 

enigmatics

Go get me a juice box!
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
7,258
Reaction score
19
Age
42
Location
Arizona
AJ Feeley for a 2nd rounder still makes me ill to this day. Knowing that Owens and Dillon both went for 2nd rounders proves just how bad of a trade it turned out to be from a value stand point.
 

Gitrdone

Starter
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
34
enigmatics said:
AJ Feeley for a 2nd rounder still makes me ill to this day. Knowing that Owens and Dillon both went for 2nd rounders proves just how bad of a trade it turned out to be from a value stand point.

Dillon was worth the 2nd rounder, Owens is just a headcase. Telling the Eagles the deal he got last year was great and he wouldn't complain. Now what is he doing? Wanting more money after just one year. Sure glad we never got him.

Dillon on the other hand I like.

touborg said:
It's funny how 99% of the fans wanted "anyone but Fiedler", but when we didn't get the next Dan Marion, everyone was screaming. The Phins were forced to try someone else, and whether or not that works out has yet to be seen. If it wasnt because of massive pressure (by us) that trade would never have gone down. As much as I don't think this trade is the best thing since sliced bread, us the fans have blood on our hands.

You should Burn for that Typo :fire: :lol:
 

byroan

☠️ Banned ☠️
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
18,503
Reaction score
1
touborg said:
Ah, that 1 year has suddenly turned into an era. I wonder if there are any other 1 year eras.



It's funny how 99% of the fans wanted "anyone but Fiedler", but when we didn't get the next Dan Marion, everyone was screaming. The Phins were forced to try someone else, and whether or not that works out has yet to be seen. If it wasnt because of massive pressure (by us) that trade would never have gone down. As much as I don't think this trade is the best thing since sliced bread, us the fans have blood on our hands.





Who did Houck, arguably the best OL coach in the league (Gibs is only working as a consultant due to his mental state), bring in this year? The correct answer is pretty much nobody, because Spielmans people are slated to start. Oh and on a sidenote, you write our team got no attention in Spielmans only year, yet we brought more OL people in last year than we did this year. I'll leave it at that.



I agree for once. Moving up to grab Carey was a mistake. But on the other hand, OL is not a position where people make an instant impact. In fact, apart from QB, imo OL is one of the most developmental positions. If Carey does not start this year, I'll agrre that he was a bust, and moving up for him was a mistake. But then again, every fan was crying for improvement, and we were all happy when we got him, but now we are trying to wash our hands.



You're talking apples and oranges here. On one hand, you say that we didn't have the money to keep O-Gun, and then you proceed to say that "he is forced to make a bad trade". Buddy, if we even had the slightest chance in hell to keep him, we would. I don't know where you have the information that we could "have gotten better trades" (I'd like to see some links confirming that actually). Booker is a fine reciever, and unless you come up with a very interresting link, I think we did as well as we could.



Oh yea, because you would have jumped up and down if Spielman said that Minor would be our starting tailback. Gordon was the best talent, and Spielman got it, the fact that he got injured (unless you're suggesting Spielman personally pushed him) was out of his hands. Injuries yes, but the talent was the best on the market.



Of course he will. Let me turn this around, who do you think is a better replacement right now? (obviously someone on the market).



Absolutely. Miami about broke the olympic record in injuries, had one of the most horrible coaching teams and had a cap situation that could only make even the most hardcore fans scratch their heads, and yet still Spielman is for some reason to blame.

Don't forget that Saban is plenty excited about starting Spielmans players this year.

Take a look at these moves.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2005/06/04/dolphins_moves.html

Almost all of them are horrible.
 

MDFINFAN

Reach for the Stars
Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
May 23, 2002
Messages
21,995
Reaction score
922
Location
Maryland
That article was terrible on so many levels, it was one of those, I'm a fan type that didn't like Spielman. Most of the Speilman haters on this board could have written that, no objectivity what so ever, just like the comments of Speilman haters. Speilman was much more to this organization and the effects of his changes last year will set this team up for greatest in the future.
 

Muck

Now completely imaginary
☠️ Banned ☠️
Joined
Feb 3, 2002
Messages
30,212
Reaction score
7
Location
Elsewhere
byroan said:

IIRC, Will Poole didn't beat out Howard. He had a great training camp. But Howard started for Surtain. And he played a lot more than Poole did.

Nothing for the rookie to be ashamed of. CB is one of the most difficult positions for a rookie to excel at.

Still, Speilman's MOVES were generally terrible. His evaluation of talent was pretty good. But he severely lacked that overall vision that the truly good GMs have.
 

byroan

☠️ Banned ☠️
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
18,503
Reaction score
1
Muck said:
IIRC, Will Poole didn't beat out Howard. He had a great training camp. But Howard started for Surtain. And he played a lot more than Poole did.

Nothing for the rookie to be ashamed of. CB is one of the most difficult positions for a rookie to excel at.

Still, Speilman's MOVES were generally terrible. His evaluation of talent was pretty good. But he severely lacked that overall vision that the truly good GMs have.

You're right. I'm pretty sure Poole was the dime back. I don't think signing Howard was a bad move but he shouldn't have received the contract that he did.
 

Brsdd

Starter
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Messages
124
Reaction score
0
Anyone who thinks that taking Poole in the 4th round was a bad move, is a complete moron and does not deserve the time of day to have his garbage article discussed. Seriously, that had to be one of the most ignorant football statements I have ever seen. Poole was 1st round talent, who we stole in the 4th round.
 

vt_dolfan

E tū iho nei, tū iho nei, hī!
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
2,109
Reaction score
4
Age
49
Well..IMO this article was nothing more than an anti spielman...wanny...Feeley...Gordon...Booker...slant. Nothing objective here in any way. Every point has been hashed and rehased over and over again. We can all agree that Spielman made mistakes. Calling Booker average is nutty. And we can all see just how good Ogun was away from Talyor. Next.
 

MikeO

Premium Member
Club Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
15,357
Reaction score
150
vt_dolfan said:
Well..IMO this article was nothing more than an anti spielman...wanny...Feeley...Gordon...Booker...slant. Nothing objective here in any way. Every point has been hashed and rehased over and over again. We can all agree that Spielman made mistakes. Calling Booker average is nutty. And we can all see just how good Ogun was away from Talyor. Next.

1) It doesn't matter how good O-Gun is since leaving Miami. If he's a bomb or if he is a hall of famer, it doesn't mean anything. It's about getting the best trade value for him possible. Spielman didn't. Rick turned down better trades in April and waited till August. Then in August it was a take it or leave it with Chicago and Rick had no leverage and took the only offer on the table. That is a sign of a bad GM. He should have made the move in April and got MORE value than what he got in August.

2) And you say the article is anti- Wanny, Spielman, and Fiedler (among others). Which one of these guys do you want to defend? And which one's do you still want in Miami today? And which one were you happy with their results? Im dying to hear.

3) You among others say the article isn't objective. It's not supposed to be. It's a commentary. It's a writer presenting an opinion. This isn't an AP news report, its a column. Objectivity isn't needed in a column. The "fair and balanced" rule doesn't apply. It's someone laying out his thoughts and or opinion on a subject. As long as the truth isn't being misrepresented (which is isn't) then you can agree or disagree with the stance being taken in the column, but the writer doesn't need to be objective. All the writer must do is just give his opinoin and back it up using facts. You may disagree with the writers conclusion, that is what makes a good columinist usually. As reasonable people can look at a subject with the same set of facts laying out in front of them and come to different conclusions. So saying it isn't objective makes no sense as this column or any column for that matter isn't supposed to be objective by nature. This isn't a news report. There is a difference in reporting and writing a column.
 
Top Bottom