Culpepper...will he return to form?

[Dolfan984]

Detroit Lions 2002-2005

2002: 31st
2003: 21st
2004: 22nd
2005: 20th

Joey's had it pretty bad, not quite as bad as Daunte, but the Lions offensive ranking are even worse than their defenses believe it or not. Lions are a freaking mess, the Vikes just were defensively.

 

[Dolfan984]

I love this. I keep having this thrown at me. I will respond to you the same way I have to others...I challenge you to find a post of mine where I am claiming that Joey did not have responsibility in Miami losing the four games he started that Miami lost. So my answer is "no" I am not using a double standard.

As for 2004. One year does not make a hof. DC had an excellent year in 2004. However, to use 2004 as a barometer for the type of QB he is is a mistake IMO. I have posted before that 2004 every QB had their stats inflated due to refs calling "no touch" that year. For example, Manning went from 29 TD passes in 2003 to 49 in 2004 to 28 in 2005...9 QBs threw for 27 or more TD passes in 2004 whereas 2 did in 2003 and 2 in 2005.

Simply put, 2004 is a terrible year to use as an example of how good a QB is bc it is very misleading. Joey Harrington's stats are a perfect example...he went from 17 TD 22 INT in 2003 to 19 TD and 12 INT in 2004 to 12 TD and 12 INT in 2005. But everyone keeps using 2004 like that is his average year. It is very misleading and a mistake to think that is representative of the QB Daunte is. Just like it is misleading to use Manning's 2004 stats to indicate how good he is.

It was a HOF year I meant, not that year made him have a hof career. I agree that 2004 is a bad year to judge Qbs, but any way you look at it, he was the 2nd best QB in the league. In 2003 he was very solid as well (over 2:1 td int ratio leading the #1 ranked offense in the league)

What I'm saying to you, and I admit that the way I put it was a bit off (what you quoted), is that the QB isn't the be all factor in wins and losses, especially when you have a defense that was as poor as the vikings.

I really like to use 2003 to indicate how good he is over 2004 for the reasons you stated. They're very valid.

 

[RenoFinFan]

Reno,

Are you aware that more than a Quarterback makes a team. There are 10 other men on the field on the offense, and last time I checked, Daunte did not play linebacker, safety, or defensive line. That would be like saying the loss vs. Boise State and the loss @ Fresno, @ ASU, and @ Hawaii for Nevada were all Rowe's fault, plain and simple some of the blame may have rested on his shoulders, but in particular those first few games the defense didn't show up in any aspect. So goes the defense, so goes the team in most instances.

I am very aware how many players are on the field of play and there is a defense as well. I am of the school of thought that QB is a position of leadership and great QBs lead their teams to wins on a consistent basis. It doesn't mean that great QBs don't have a bad year during their career, but all the great ones were consistent winners. Daunte had not led his team to a winning record the past 6 years and is 28-43 in his last 71 starts. This is while playing in the weakest division in football IMO. The Vikings were 15-10 in the division and 13-33 outside of it. He was surrounded by some talented players in Minnesota as well IMO.

As far as Rowe is concerned. He has led the Wolfpack to a 10-3 record last year and a 8-4 record this year. If Daunte led his team to a 18-7 record then I would be Daunte's #1 fan. Daunte has led his team to "one" win over a team with a winning record in the last "three" years and that was Jacksonville in 2004 who were 9-7 (they did beat division rival GB in the playoffs that year. Of course the only reason GB had a winning record was bc they were 5-1 in that weak division). I just prefer to have a leader at QB who does what it takes to win games.

 

[Dolfan984]

I just prefer to have a leader at QB who does what it takes to win games.

With the offensive numbers he's capable of putting up, I just want to see him with a good defense. Look at the difference in offensive and defensive rankings with the Dolphins and Vikings. Leadership is all well and good, but I think a Quarterback can only really inspire an offense.

I am a quarterback by the way

 

[RenoFinFan]

With the offensive numbers he's capable of putting up, I just want to see him with a good defense. Look at the difference in offensive and defensive rankings with the Dolphins and Vikings. Leadership is all well and good, but I think a Quarterback can only really inspire an offense.

I am a quarterback by the way

Right on...are you playing college right now?

 

[Desides]

We do need to, and there is a damn good chance we will be able to snag one of them. As it is, I think our draft position is 13, and i wouldnt expect it to stray TO far from that, up or down. In that spot Quinn will be gone, but Brohm could easily be there. Refresh me, what spots did Leinart and Cutler go in? We will see whats available. I dont think we need to make a huge reach, but we do need to take something in round 1-2. Im not gonna pass up Brohm for a "maybe Culpepper will be back" or "joey harrington is our starter"

Give Pepper a shot if he recovers physically, draft a QB in round 1-2, then in TC find out if Joey or Culpepper is playing at a higher level, cut the lesser and start the better until our rookie is ready, then pull an anti-SD and actually get some value for Pepper/Harrington back :tongue:

Without getting into too much detail, mainly because I'm sick and tired of hearing the "Culpepper is done" stuff... your plan is unrealistic, simply because of the implications for our salary cap and trade value. You also presume that the Raiders and Lions, two teams who desperately need QBs, will pass on Quinn and Brohm... not to mention you presume that Culpepper is washed up, based on a 2005 season in which the entire offense changed, and a 2006 season in which he was not in game shape.

You're too eager to pull the trigger on another QB, meaning you advocate continuing the revolving door at that position since Dan Marino left. Enough. We have Culpepper. He's signed through 2012. We have an obligation, financially and professionally, to give him every chance we can.

Let's worry about drafting a QB only if Culpepper doesn't succeed and Lemon reveals that he can't play good football against first-string opponents.

 

[Dolfan984]

Right on...are you playing college right now?

Played a year of JC back in 2003. Right now I just play in a really great semi pro league. The team that won our league won the whole MLFA West championship, and we made the playoffs in this league (lost by 3 ). I'm going to a college that doesn't have a football team, but reality is the degree is going to take me a lot farther than playin football for personal enjoyment will. Still I was the only guy on the team to throw a pass, run the ball, and catch the ball on the team. I run a 4.58 last time I was clocked which isn't amazing but I'm still not slow you'd say. The only thing holding me back is even though I'm 6'4", I'm only about 180 lbs....and that's with eating and working out a lot. It's good times though, our practices start for next season on January 6th :D Man time flys so fast but it's so fun playing football. It keeps my need for football down, right when the Dolphins and NFL season start windin down my football starts up and ends early July. Sorry for the long post

 

[Gareth1213]

We have an obligation, financially and professionally, to give him every chance we can.

Let's worry about drafting a QB only if Culpepper doesn't succeed and Lemon reveals that he can't play good football against first-string opponents.

I agree there's an obligation to give both QB's a fair chance. I think every QB needs 2-3 seasons to be properly evaluated, enough time to learn the offense, get comfortable with the oline and receivers.

So I don't see either Daunte or Joey going anywhere this off-season. So far neither can be properly evaluated beyond saying Daunte was poor, but was injured and wasn't fully up to speed on the offense, and Joey has been mixed but wasn't fully up to speed on the offense either. The only thing I can say for certain is that the play of both in a dolphins uniform is not good enough so far.

TC and pre-season should decide who starts, but they then start the year and finish (unless they really stink bad) so they can build chemistry in what may well be a very changed team.

Every 2 - 3 years we should draft a QB in the lower rounds 5/6 and see how they do, at worst they can fill spot 3 on the roster, if after a couple of years they haven't developed into starter material cut them, and draft again.

 

[WPBtoRNOFinFan]

I am very aware how many players are on the field of play and there is a defense as well. I am of the school of thought that QB is a position of leadership and great QBs lead their teams to wins on a consistent basis. It doesn't mean that great QBs don't have a bad year during their career, but all the great ones were consistent winners. Daunte had not led his team to a winning record the past 6 years and is 28-43 in his last 71 starts. This is while playing in the weakest division in football IMO. The Vikings were 15-10 in the division and 13-33 outside of it. He was surrounded by some talented players in Minnesota as well IMO.

As far as Rowe is concerned. He has led the Wolfpack to a 10-3 record last year and a 8-4 record this year. If Daunte led his team to a 18-7 record then I would be Daunte's #1 fan. Daunte has led his team to "one" win over a team with a winning record in the last "three" years and that was Jacksonville in 2004 who were 9-7 (they did beat division rival GB in the playoffs that year. Of course the only reason GB had a winning record was bc they were 5-1 in that weak division). I just prefer to have a leader at QB who does what it takes to win games.

Do you remember the Northwestern game? If it wasn't for Joe Garcia's last minute INT return for a TD, that game could have been even more up for grabs. Our offense was unproductive in a lot of the games (aside from the last three blowouts of Idaho, Utah State, and LA. Tech). Take away our defensive dominance vs. Colorado State, Northwestern, and even San Jose State and you have a bit tighter of a record. Translate that to the NFL and look at what has transpired for the Fins over the four weeks prior to this week. Huge defensive turnovers as well as turnovers for scores at critical times while the offense was too busy choking. See any parallels? I sure as hell do.