Culver on Our New "Fun" Defense | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Culver on Our New "Fun" Defense

Definitely. I agree that if anything Pasqualoni ran too aggressive a scheme at times, exposing rookie corners and slow linebackers.

If anything has encouraged me about Nolan's defense it actually has been that at times, he'll sit back and rush three, drop eight. I'm not sure how often Pasqualoni did that. Couldn't have been very often.
 
yeah but how hard was it to look for whoever gibril wilsons assignment was and then attack it...te rb over the top wr whatever...pitch and catch easy money...

as for the rushing 3 and dropping 8 that's great and all provided the 3 you rush can get pressure...if not good qbs will torch you no matter how many you drop...but you might not or at least you shouldn't be giving up 40 yard chunk plays a pop...
 
First off the numbers don't even really support that Gibril Wilson was picked on in that manner, he made mistakes in other ways.

Second I absolutely do not agree that dropping eight results in any good QB picking you apart. In fact, it became the choice method of defending Tom Brady in 2009, and that's a fact.

Miami used to frustrate the HELL out of Peyton Manning back in the Wannstedt years just by rushing the same four over and over again, dropping 7, keeping a cap over top with the safeties, and squeezing the field. It wasn't always because we were getting great pressure with that front four. A lot of it was because those great QBs, part of what makes them great is their ability to recognize blitzes before the snap, recognize number advantages, and bring the ball to the weakness in the defense.
 
Overall I think that Nolan will be less aggressive in Miami than he was in Denver. In Denver he had Champ Bailey and Andre Goodman at CB, with Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill at safety. He could be aggressive. Miami has two second year guys in Vontae Davis and Sean Smith, and another player coming off ACL surgery in Will Allen. He has Yeremiah Bell, but the other safety position is going to carry a big question mark over it for a while. He can't afford to be as aggressive in Miami as he was in Denver.

And that's why Cameron Wake should end up such a big part of what we do, why we have to make sure that front four unit can really get after the passer between Langford, Starks, Merling and Wake. With the pressure coming from them, and the ability of Dansby, Crowder and Misi to help the secondary out in coverage, the Dolphins should be able to stabilize their defense until the secondary becomes a lot more solid than they are currently. Once the secondary stabilizes, then you can get creative and aggressive. Pasqualoni put the cart before the horse.
 
ckparrothead said:
First off the numbers don't even really support that Gibril Wilson was picked on in that manner, he made mistakes in other ways.

Second I absolutely do not agree that dropping eight results in any good QB picking you apart. In fact, it became the choice method of defending Tom Brady in 2009, and that's a fact.

Miami used to frustrate the HELL out of Peyton Manning back in the Wannstedt years just by rushing the same four over and over again, dropping 7, keeping a cap over top with the safeties, and squeezing the field. It wasn't always because we were getting great pressure with that front four. A lot of it was because those great QBs, part of what makes them great is their ability to recognize blitzes before the snap, recognize number advantages, and bring the ball to the weakness in the defense.
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i'm assuming you're talking rushing 3 and dropping 8 on long down distances...to me if you rush 3 and drop 8 on first and 2nd down you give guys easy yardage underneath whether it be by the run or pass...other than giving the qb a changeup every once in a while

3rd and long...sure rush 3 and drop 8...just make sure cameron wake is one of the 3 rushing at least...please

as for gibril wilson i think he was HORRID across the board...
 
and ck i see you mention langford starks merling and wake as being the primary pressure players up front...no issue there...but i also know that you felt that jared odrick was worthy of the #12 pick consideration if not worthy of the pick outright so to me that says if i'm using a top 12 pick on a player in as good a top of the draft as this past draft was i EXPECT that player to if not start contribute mightily from the jump street to my team...if not in outright productivity at least significant snaps...

otherwise why would i even consider that guy with the #12 pick when i could have taken guys elsewhere who could provide that impact and snaps...so why leave out odrick in your pressure players listed???

it's not like the guys a crappy pass rusher...
 
to me when you rush 3 and drop 8 you're essentially making a team nickle and dime you all the way down the field and hoping that at some point those 3 rushers you send will get quick pressure and force a mistake...or that the qb will grow impatient and try and force something that isn't there...

it would really depend on the distance to the chains as to whether or not i would feel it makes sense to go to a drop 8 look...other than the occasional change of pace to give a qb something else to think about....

by the way...i guess "torched" was not a good word choice on my part...i should have said nickled and dimed underneath" when referring to that dropping 8
 
hooshoops said:
and ck i see you mention langford starks merling and wake as being the primary pressure players up front...no issue there...but i also know that you felt that jared odrick was worthy of the #12 pick consideration if not worthy of the pick outright so to me that says if i'm using a top 12 pick on a player in as good a top of the draft as this past draft was i EXPECT that player to if not start contribute mightily from the jump street to my team...if not in outright productivity at least significant snaps...

otherwise why would i even consider that guy with the #12 pick when i could have taken guys elsewhere who could provide that impact and snaps...so why leave out odrick in your pressure players listed???

it's not like the guys a crappy pass rusher...
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Jared Odrick was worthy of consideration at #12 but he's still a long term prospect. Vontae Davis and Sean Smith were good rookies but still rookies. Rookies is rookies, and unlike Langford who played the 3-4 in college, Jared Odrick will have to make the transition from being a gap shooter to a two-gapper. I don't see Odrick claiming the regular starter position as a rookie. That job belongs to Phil Merling, and it's probably the reason they didn't more heavily censure the man when he reported to camp 12 hours after being released from jail for battering his pregnant wife.

Ultimately Jared Odrick is not the guy I would have picked at #12. It probably would have been Brandon Graham. Being worthy of consideration at that spot in my book does not mean I believe he's a day one starter. I just don't share your philosophy in that regard that whoever I pick at #12 has to be a day one starter. I think it has to be the best football player, and that if you're looking to your rookies to find day one starters, you're already in trouble.
 
I don't share your view on what dropping 8 can do to an offense. I think it's a method of attacking the quarterback through indecision. A quarterback normally is going to read the defense and have a set of priorities on where to go with the football based on what is going on. When you drop people that the QB was not expecting, you screw up some of those priorities and create a lack of decisiveness. You might even create panic and an interception.

What you seem to be assuming is that when you do this, you have no real pass rush at all. If that were the case you might as well drop 9 or 10 people into coverage. Having 3 rush is not capitulation that you get no pass rush. Mike Nolan dropped 8 people on about 10% of downs last year with Denver. He probably did that more in San Francisco when he had worse coverage in the secondary. About half the time he was in his base defense, so I doubt it was really a 3rd & Long situation.

You alluded to it before, you rush three and one of the guys is Cameron Wake, and I'll add that another of the rushers is Randy Starks, then the QB should still have a clock in his head.

Of course, there's no point in dropping 8 if your LBs can't cover. That has hopefully been remedied.
 
i'm not saying they have to be day 1 starters...i'm saying they should at least play significant snaps...some positions being the exception like qbs etc...

and i think if odrick is ready to contribute right now its as a pass rusher....not a run defender
 
Mike Nolan was about as likely to drop 8 (or even 9) into coverage last year with Denver, as he was to rush 6, 7 or 8 players. He was about 10% on dropping 8 or 9, he was about 12% on rushing 6 to 8.

I think that's a good thing.
 
ckparrothead said:
I think that does constitute one of the differences. They're drilling that where I don't know that most defenses do. But it's really a minor difference.

Another difference is that Nolan tries to spread out his linebacker blitzing among the two inside linebackers and one of the two inside linebackers a little more evenly. I think Pasqualoni would blitz more with Porter and Taylor, less with Ayodele and Crowder (can you blame him?), where Nolan would take a few of those blitzes off Porter's and Taylor's hands and toss them toward Akin Ayodele, who might have been replaced by Reggie Torbor in a Mike Nolan starting lineup.

This does not necessarily constitute more aggression overall. Miami had 4.36 players rushing the QB on average under Pasqualoni (4.29 in 2008 and 4.41 in 2009). If you take into account Mike Nolan's defense in San Francisco combined with his defense in Denver, he had had 4.33 players rushing the passer on average (4.22 in San Fran 2008, 4.44 in Denver 2009).

Was Nolan a tiny bit more aggressive in 2009 than Pasqualoni? Yes, by a miniscule amount. Nolan blitzed DBs every 5.6 plays in Denver, Pasqualoni in 2009 blitzed DBs every 6.4 plays. Denver had 4.44 players rushing the QB to Miami's 4.41. The differences in both are so miniscule as to barely be mentionable. And when you take 2008 into account, Pasqualoni was technically more aggressive than Nolan on a two-year basis.

We're not necessarily talking about more aggression to the QB, just a different kind of aggression. Mike Nolan will blitz the DBs just a little bit more (not much but a little). But I emphasize, the difference is not significant. The bigger difference is like I said where Pasqualoni would want guys like Taylor and Porter doing the heavy lifting from the outsides on the pass rush, Nolan will take one of his inside linebackers and make him almost as significant a blitzer as the strong side outside linebacker, who at the same time becomes a guy that drops back into coverage a lot more than Jason Taylor did.

I would say there's a little bit more movement in Nolan's defenses. Probably more fakes. More zone coverage from linebackers.
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I agree on almost everything you're saying in this thread. Agree on that we're always thinking about the next Coach-Coordinator to be better than the last one, and that Pasqualoni and Nolan's D's have only minor difference. But obviously, this comes from being optimistic about the next season, and expecting/wishing this season to be better than last one.
Now, you say there are many minor differences between Paul and Mike's D's. Beginning with LB Blitzes, and DB's as well, along with LB zone coverages. I would say that all those minor differences added up, makes both of the defenses pretty different.
For starters, I think/hope Nolan is more unpredictable, and that makes the offense think more about their backfield blocking, OL pass blocking schemes, as well as Run blocking schemes. When seeing Paul's D, you would know most of the times who was blitzing, and i think that becomes something an offense can deal with.
I've always liked Nolan, so this time i'm hoping for him to make this defense work, aside from being better or worse than Pasqualoni, since i really don't care about comparisons, but DO care about seeing the D working like a Swiss watch.
 
hooshoops said:
i'm not saying they have to be day 1 starters...i'm saying they should at least play significant snaps...some positions being the exception like qbs etc...

and i think if odrick is ready to contribute right now its as a pass rusher....not a run defender
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Well I was talking about the starting 3-4 unit. The primary pass rush in the starting 3-4 unit is going to be Wake, Merling, Starks and Langford.

I take it as a given that Odrick's going to work his way into nickel.
 
And for the record Mike Nolan rushed 2 or 3 people about 10% of the time, rushed 4 players about 52% of the time, rushed 5 players 26% of the time and rushed 6 or more about 12% of the time.

Those percentages were undoubtedly tied though to the amount of coverage talent he had amongst his defensive backs, and so it's hard to say if they would translate in Miami.
 
ckparrothead said:
And for the record Mike Nolan rushed 2 or 3 people about 10% of the time, rushed 4 players about 52% of the time, rushed 5 players 26% of the time and rushed 6 or more about 12% of the time.

Those percentages were undoubtedly tied though to the amount of coverage talent he had amongst his defensive backs, and so it's hard to say if they would translate in Miami.
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Man, I really hope our 2 CBs can make a big stride up the learning curve this year.

CK, how confident are you that Davis & Smith can play much closer to "veteran" ability vs. "rookie" ability in 2010?
What do you expect, if you had to make your best guess (pending camp & pre-season action)?
 
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