Curious Case of Jake Fromm

[Dolphins81]

Just imagine what UGA would look like if they had Fields. That team would be a monster.

 

[Dolfansal]

Bringing up future hall of fame guys to prove a point is as silly as saying wait till the 6th round to pick a QB because that's where Brady fell to. The facts are what they are, Fromm doesn't win games on his own there at Georgia, he is reliant on a strong supporting cast. Do you think Fromm would excel like Wilson in rain capital of the US, Seattle with the line they've had over the years ?

In all honesty though, what games did Brady or Wilson win on their own? With both of those guys it is work ethic.

To play at the high D1 level a lot of these guys are crazy talented. Why do so many fail every year in NFL? Because they get lazy. The amount of work that the greats put in in the NFL is off the charts. Many guys put in what they did in college and it all passes them by.

 

[MiamiMuss]

I have seen Games where Fromm looks really food.Then I watched a few with a ugh.
All I can say is Matthew Stafford.

 

[Feverdream]

Is Fromm more of a steak or more like macaroni and cheese?

 

[Dolphins81]

I have seen Games where Fromm looks really food.Then I watched a few with a ugh.
All I can say is Matthew Stafford.

Stafford without the arm. I would take a chance on Anthony Gordon in the 3rd or 4th instead. At least he knows how to let it rip. However, I will say one good thing about Fromm, he hands the ball off really well.

 

[A1.]

One question CK,

why are we getting caught up in comparing burrows arm to fromms? Why is burrow your dump guy when comparing other prospects arms to him? I understand you believe it isn’t of NFL caliber (largely).

I know you seem to like Fromm more than most, but do you really think they are true comparables?

if my gm wasdebating burrow and Fromm I’d feel... uneasy

 

[NoblePhin]

Idk, with just getting in to the draft research process if we are going spread then I don't see how you can rule this guy out. Excels in presnap reads, that's like the number one quality you need in that system. The I look at his arm and looks pretty good and smooth to me, when he sees the open man his reaction is fast and the throw is catchable. One thing I shpuld mention is NO Qb taken is going to start this year. 1 year of watching Fitz and learning the offense and fixing technique is a lot to build on to an already solid looking prospect in Fromm.

 

[BigNastyFish]

Fromm doesn't inspire confidence when the game is on the line

and he's gotta produce! Not a "clutch" player and if you don't

think so -- talk to GA fans. Seems to be a "facilitator" more than

a significant "force" on the field. I 100% agree re the tiny hands

and the kids arm is certainly less than PRO level impressive.

Looks like a career NFL back up in many ways to me -- and will

ONLY excel in a highly complimentary system where he's NOT

the primary focus on the O. Needs a great run game and a D

that can keep the score low because the kid just can't light up

the scoreboard. Yeah he's got oodles of intangibles but...

Honestly wouldn't look at him before R3.

 

[ckparrothead]

One question CK,

why are we getting caught up in comparing burrows arm to fromms? Why is burrow your dump guy when comparing other prospects arms to him? I understand you believe it isn’t of NFL caliber (largely).

I know you seem to like Fromm more than most, but do you really think they are true comparables?

if my gm wasdebating burrow and Fromm I’d feel... uneasy

Joe Burrow's arm makes an excellent foil for guys like Tua Tagovailoa and Jake Fromm for a number of reasons.

First off, Burrow is going go #1 overall. So clearly the consensus is NOT that he possesses below-minimum arm strength for the NFL. His arm is generally acknowledged to be {{insert adjective for below exemplary}}. People rotate between "average" or "not great" or "pretty good" depending on who you talk to. They clip various throws and say, "See here he shows a pretty good arm," or "looks fine to me!" etc.

At the same time, people frequently criticize Jake Fromm's arm talent. They say this is why he won't be a great quarterback, he doesn't have the arm. They will tease that factor a number of ways, turning it into him not having the arm talent to take over games or win big games, etc.

And thus it's highly relevant to establish that Jake Fromm has an unqualified better arm than the guy who will be going #1 overall this year.

The other benefit of comparing the two is it helps to establish and make clear the various levels of arm strength, as it's clear that Jake Fromm (and Tua Tagovailoa) do not throw with the sort of velocity you see out of the likes of Justin Herbert and Jordan Love, but it's also clear that they throw better than Joe Burrow. This is important, because part of what feeds into the fallacy of equating the arm strength of Joe Burrow with that of Tua Tagovailoa and/or Jake Fromm is a paradigm that there's basically two levels of arm strength. They say there are guys like Herbert and Love and then there's everyone else and if you're not Herbert or Love then it doesn't really matter if your arm is Joe Burrow or Jake Fromm or Tua Tagovailoa or Easton Stick or Gardner Minshew, it's all the same.

Well, it's not all the same. In my experience there are guys that can throw in the 54 to 56 mph range at NFL distances, there are guys that can throw around the 50 to 53 mph range at NFL distances, and then there are guys that can really only muster 47 to 49 mph on their BEST throws. Burrow is in the last group. Fromm and Tua are the middle group. Herbert and Love are in the first group.

I try and establish this whenever I can by pointing out that Fromm's arm is discretely better than Burrow's. And he will go #1 overall. So clearly Fromm's arm is a good bit in excess of what it needs to be in order to be a good NFL quarterback.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

He threw one kind of throw really perfectly last night, which is the same throw he always throws really well, back of the shoulder, outside of the numbers. How does he do when he has to throw something else, answer is, it's hit and miss.

He's great pre snap and he's been a large part of why that line has been the best line in College all season, he's got the intangibles you look for in a QB but from a physical standpoint that are way too many questions.

I agree with all of this. The strengths and weaknesses have always been the same. Jake Fromm looks like a guy who should be at a smaller program and slowly whispered as a decent pro prospect. Instead he's been at a major program and always overhyped. I always thought the one certainty was that he would plunge from elite prospect level.

Now that it's happening I don't really care about the details. Jake Fromm is not interesting enough to get invested in. We'll see what the hand size says. If that flunks then nothing will save him including MPH trivia.

When I watch the NFL these days I see so few throws that require arm strength. Yeah, there are some like 3rd and 10 with both edges collapsing. But overall it's do you have the moxie and can you create permutations that a normal quarterback would never find? If you can create those permutations while also owning the accuracy and touch you are so far ahead of the norm it's scary.

Once in a while the bar stool types are correct. They see what is actually happening and are not cluttered by ego and hyper analysis.

 

[ckparrothead]

This effort to paint Jake Fromm as like a one-trick pony is weird to me. His game has way too many layers for that to even pass the smell test.

His awareness of the coverage, of every option on the play call, and what he needs to do in order to create the needed spacing, and the ability select whatever throw is needed to make the play happen, is exemplary. And every one of these prospects whether we're talking about Justin Herbert or Jordan Love or Jacob Eason or whoever, I don't care how strong the arm is, if they're not able to exhibit this at the next level, they're toast. Jake Fromm already has a mastery of it.



The velocity stuff on Jake Fromm has never been the argument in his favor. That's a fundamental misreading of everything I've been saying about him and about velocity. The velocity argument is merely a counter, a damn effective one, to one of the most common misperceived negatives about Fromm.

Sometimes the guys on bar stools don't know what the **** they're talking about, too.

 

[Geordie]

So CK would you really take Fromm ahead of Burrow ? Would you use the 5th pick on him ?

 

[ckparrothead]

So CK would you really take Fromm ahead of Burrow ? Would you use the 5th pick on him ?

Ahead of Burrow? No.

I'm always willing to gamble on a high ceiling, even if it means asking a guy to beat the odds with respect to some factor in a player's game (e.g. height, velocity). Joe Burrow has established a very high ceiling for himself with his performance this year, the way he's been able to consistently put it all together. He'll have to beat the odds with respect to his arm strength, but it's been done before. It's not even as unprecedented as was the case with Russell Wilson's height, and then Kyler Murray's height after him.

If I'm in need of a quarterback then I'm a market buyer on Jake Fromm and Jordan Love. I feel comfortable gambling on them.

 

[Geordie]

Ahead of Burrow? No.

I'm always willing to gamble on a high ceiling, even if it means asking a guy to beat the odds with respect to some factor in a player's game (e.g. height, velocity). Joe Burrow has established a very high ceiling for himself with his performance this year, the way he's been able to consistently put it all together. He'll have to beat the odds with respect to his arm strength, but it's been done before. It's not even as unprecedented as was the case with Russell Wilson's height, and then Kyler Murray's height after him.

If I'm in need of a quarterback then I'm a market buyer on Jake Fromm and Jordan Love. I feel comfortable gambling on them.

I still don't agree with you on Fromm but totally get the need to gamble, I hope whomever they pick, even if it's Fromm that they have the courage of their convictions and put the pieces in places to give that kid a shot.

 

[ckparrothead]

Reality is we have a bunch of picks this year and next year, and RYAN FITZPATRICK is going to be our quarterback next year, most likely.

Let's think about what that means.

Regardless of how we think Fitzpatrick played for us this year, he's 55-83-1 as a starter. He was 2-5 in Tampa, 3-8 the last time he played for Chan Gailey, and 5-8 this year in Miami. He's only had two winning seasons as a starter in his whole career (2-1 in 2017 and 10-6 for Chan Gailey in 2015).

Despite the Dolphins being a lot better this year than they should have been, they're a PRIME candidate to fall flat on their face and disappoint in 2020. We will see what they do in the off season, of course. But based on what I think is likely in the off season, it won't change things.

So you use a 1st round pick on a guy this year. OK cool. He trains on, probably replaces Rosen who is just wasting space and practice reps, and at some point in 2020 you put him on the field and start to see what he can do. But despite best efforts, your team sucks, Fitzpatrick sucks or gets injured or both, the rookie isn't lighting anything up, and now you're staring at Trevor Lawrence or Tua Tagovailoa (or Justin Fields) in the 2021 draft.

Take one! Who cares what people say!

Cardinals came out smelling like a rose for taking a shot on Josh Rosen and then following up by taking Kyler Murray. Their tactic should absolutely be a trend, regardless of how many idiots panned them for it. They even got a 2nd round pick back for Rosen, much to my personal dismay and foreboding.

Is that guy you take this year Jake Fromm if he comes out (which I still don't think he will)? Is it Jordan Love? Is it Justin Herbert? I don't know. You're going to have to figure out which guy works best for your team structure, not just your offensive system but your entire team philosophy and approach. You're also going to have to figure out if it works better that you grab a premium player like Jeff Okudah at one pick and then circle back with the next one. That will take a lot of intel and price discovery, but that's what teams do every year so they shouldn't be afraid of it.

I know this. If Jake Fromm isn't ultimately the guy, let's say you get a swipe at Tua Tagovailoa next year and you pounce on it, Fromm is probably still going to fit into the team structure. He will function in that QB room and he will maintain his trade value. I feel safe in that knowledge.