Deangelo Hall: "nobody's Better Than X Right Now"

[j-off-her-doll]

Revis ball skills were elite too teams just stopped testing him.

And for good reason.

Not sure if x will get that treatment cause there’s still plays to be made against him. But you are definitely playing with fire going there.

That combo of top shelf consistent technique, ability to always play to or maintain his leverage (and in tbe process stay in tbe wr hip) and late locate of the ball and ball skills is Russian roulette. Not to mention he’s got really good feet. Can match footwork of a lot of WRs. Even slots

I'd say it's between Revis and R. Woodson for CB2 of the last 30 years (D. Sanders is of course CB1). Revis's combination of instincts, intelligence, speed, quickness, agility, strength, physicality, and ball skills were unreal. Since Revis, Sherman and Peterson have been the best, and of the current crop (Sherman and Peterson on the downslope), Ramsey and Lattimore seem like the players most likely to have HoF careers. X. Howard is in the mix with the next group - C. Harris, C. Hayward, T. White, X. Rhodes, B. Jones, M. Humphrey, J. Smith, S. Gillmore, etc.. That's great company, but it's a tier or two below the guys who aren't as good as Revis.

If you're starting from scratch, Tunsil, Howard, and Fitzpatrick is a pretty decent start.

 

[NBP81]

I'd say it's between Revis and R. Woodson for CB2 of the last 30 years (D. Sanders is of course CB1). Revis's combination of instincts, intelligence, speed, quickness, agility, strength, physicality, and ball skills were unreal. Since Revis, Sherman and Peterson have been the best, and of the current crop (Sherman and Peterson on the downslope), Ramsey and Lattimore seem like the players most likely to have HoF careers. X. Howard is in the mix with the next group - C. Harris, C. Hayward, T. White, X. Rhodes, B. Jones, M. Humphrey, J. Smith, S. Gillmore, etc.. That's great company, but it's a tier or two below the guys who aren't as good as Revis.

If you're starting from scratch, Tunsil, Howard, and Fitzpatrick is a pretty decent start.

How much better is Ramsey over Howard, how do they compare in your opinion? if you've got a couple of minutes to burn...

 

[hoops]

Yeah I think Lattimore has better physical tools than x. More gifted

But unless I’m mistaken Lattimore had a somewhat down 2nd year after a rediculous rookie season. Maybe he was hurt or something I can’t remember.

Tools wise its hard to be more gifted than Lattimore. I can see hall of fame there as long as he doesn’t get content.

Deion was allergic to tackling. Pure cover skills though I don’t think anyone was better. He coined the term “business decision”

Overall corner though I’m taking revis in his prime.

When I think rod Woodson I think more safety than corner but that might be I didn’t follow it as closely when he played corner.

I always thought scheme helped limit Sherman’s weaknesses. So for me I can’t put him in that top 3

 

[hoops]

And I agree that starting from scratch with tunsil, x, and minkah is a very solid one.

Those are 3 damn good football players. 10 year type franchise types

That’s why I don’t care how much run or what they even look like getting it in the preseason or camp. They’ve checked enough boxes for me.

Bubble wrap them until week 1

 

[NBP81]

And I agree that starting from scratch with tunsil, x, and minkah is a very solid one.

Those are 3 damn good football players. 10 year type franchise types

That’s why I don’t care how much run or what they even look like getting it in the preseason or camp. They’ve checked enough boxes for me.

Thats 3 rock solid building blocks for sure... Get similar talent at pass rusher and QB next off season and there's definitely 3-4 year wide open window for a SB...

 

[hoops]

Yeah we need some 10 year edge rush talent bad.

I have a hard time believing that there’s much in house that can beat a starting caliber tackle on the edge 1 on 1 with any consistency. A pass rusher that gets me off the field.

That has to be a priority for 2020. Regardless of scheme ask

 

[NBP81]

Yeah we need some 10 year edge rush talent bad.

I have a hard time believing that there’s much in house that can beat a starting caliber tackle on the edge 1 on 1 with any consistency. A pass rusher that gets me off the field.

That has to be a priority for 2020. Regardless of scheme ask

When it comes to foundationnal building blocks, they're missing a QB and a pass rusher... Of course they're also the top 2 most costly positions to fill but the Fins have actually set themselves up pretty well to get those 2 pieces next offseason, they just need to not **** it up...

 

[hoops]

Get them in tbe draft you will have them for 5 years dirt cheap.

That’s why assuming Miami finishes top 3 pick in 2020 all eggs should be a qb or an edge rusher (assuming the player value talent wise is there)

I feel like miamis heads already there. Either rosen and an edge rusher top pick or the obvious trumps all qb top pick in 2020

Which is even more reason why I don’t want to dick around with fitztragic wasting game snaps

We get this rosen evaluation wrong it’s going down as another all timer level Miami blunder

 

[j-off-her-doll]

How much better is Ramsey over Howard, how do they compare in your opinion? if you've got a couple of minutes to burn...

Hoops's point about Lattimore having a down 2nd season (in the post below) is pertinent, especially with his overall conclusion that he's still likely to have a great career. CB's have more variance in performance than other premium positions (QB, OL, Pass Rusher, and even WR). So, when judging these guys, we're looking at career arcs, and we should be extra vigilant against recency bias.

Also, we often judge CB by the result, but if QB's have a run of great throws against them, which happens all the time, people tend to say a player is worse, when factors outside his control are changing the outcome. Then, when QB's stop hitting at such a high rate or run cold against them, we say they're great again. It averages out over time, so it's important to have perspective of that.

Ramsey has the ability to physically overwhelm a WR. He has the best combination of speed, burst, length, strength, and physicality in the NFL. I don't think he gives up much, if anything, to Howard in ball skills, quickness, and instincts (Howard's best traits imo).

Ramsey is also more durable (hope I didn't jinx him). But, more than anything, and because of his elite physical tools and skills, Ramsey can matchup with any WR in the NFL and give them everything they want - M2M. Howard would have a more difficult time in that situation. He doesn't match up as well as an athlete against guys like J. Jones, O. Beckham, or T. Hill.

 

[NBP81]

Which is even more reason why I don’t want to dick around with fitztragic wasting game snaps

We get this rosen evaluation wrong it’s going down as another all timer level Miami blunder

100% with you on this one... Every Ryan meaningful snap is a total waste of everything...

 

[hoops]

I think with Ramsey the biggest thing you have to worry about is how much he loves himself. And in tbe process does that start to effect his work ethic etc when you back a brinks truck up to his garage.

Cause he’s got everything else you could ever ask for. In spades

Thing is he knows it and I think that plays into his on field results at times with lazy play. Like it’s just too easy for me. Which he’s one of the few guys that can get away with it cause he’s just so damn physically gifted.

Anyways just my read. Dude loves himself

 

[NBP81]

Hoops's point about Lattimore having a down 2nd season (in the post below) is pertinent, especially with his overall conclusion that he's still likely to have a great career. CB's have more variance in performance than other premium positions (QB, OL, Pass Rusher, and even WR). So, when judging these guys, we're looking at career arcs, and we should be extra vigilant against recency bias.

Also, we often judge CB by the result, but if QB's have a run of great throws against them, which happens all the time, people tend to say a player is worse, when factors outside his control are changing the outcome. Then, when QB's stop hitting at such a high rate or run cold against them, we say they're great again. It averages out over time, so it's important to have perspective of that.

Ramsey has the ability to physically overwhelm a WR. He has the best combination of speed, burst, length, strength, and physicality in the NFL. I don't think he gives up much, if anything, to Howard in ball skills, quickness, and instincts (Howard's best traits imo).

Ramsey is also more durable (hope I didn't jinx him). But, more than anything, and because of his elite physical tools and skills, Ramsey can matchup with any WR in the NFL and give them everything they want - M2M. Howard would have a more difficult time in that situation. He doesn't match up as well as an athlete against guys like J. Jones, O. Beckham, or T. Hill.

Thats the thing with CBs, you dont get alot of relevant stats and even less sample size, that is unless you look at all of their snaps, which very few people do. On top of that, the number 1 stat most people look at for CBs is INTs, which is filled with variance and luck in alot of cases. OL, is kind of similar in that there are not alot of reliable stats to lean on, though OLs are pretty much always on the TV screen so bad/good plays tend to be easier to spot.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Get them in tbe draft you will have them for 5 years dirt cheap.

That’s why assuming Miami finishes top 3 pick in 2020 all eggs should be a qb or an edge rusher (assuming the player value talent wise is there)

I feel like miamis heads already there. Either rosen and an edge rusher top pick or the obvious trumps all qb top pick in 2020

Which is even more reason why I don’t want to dick around with fitztragic wasting game snaps

We get this rosen evaluation wrong it’s going down as another all timer level Miami blunder

A. Epenesa and C. Young look legit. Hard for me to imagine a scenario where Rosen plays well enough for Miami to bypass a top QB. Either he plays Miami out of that range, or he's given a chance to beat out the 2020 rookie QB. If it's Tua, I don't think they'll give him much of chance.

If Rosen plays well enough to keep Miami out of range for a QB, it probably means the OL played well enough. They could still go OL in the 1st (NE has twice since 2011). But, I'd be at OL or WR with the pick, assuming it's between 11-20. If Miami drafts early (Top 5, probably Top 10), it has to be QB then WR or OL for me - preferably WR, which is stacked, and a 1st RD talent is likely to fall to the early 30s. Don't care how good or bad the D is until the O at least threatens the Top 10.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Thats the thing with CBs, you dont get alot of relevant stats and even less sample size, that is unless you look at all of their snaps, which very few people do. On top of that, the number 1 stat most people look at for CBs is INTs, which is filled with variance and luck in alot of cases. OL, is kind of similar in that there are not alot of reliable stats to lean on, though OLs are pretty much always on the TV screen so bad/good plays are easier to spot.

I'll see if I can find it, but I saw a study that showed that PFF even falls victim to rewarding CB's by giving players credit for facing more inaccurate throws, and it penalizes the inverse. I'd bet that they eventually correct this, as they've made honest and successful efforts to improve, but it shows that you can watch every play and still have your judgment clouded by variables outside the CB's control.

 

[FinaticalOne]

X and Tunsil, two young elite players at their positions, that’s a nice coup for Grier on the resume in one draft.

You can add Minkah to that list too. i have a feeling Christian Wilkins will be a difference maker too.