Defense Will Shock You This Year...

BobDole

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Certainly I'm not discounting "capable players." But I, and I suspect others, grew increasingly frustrated with Burke's non-blitzes, lack of stunts, or dropping Wake into coverage. I remember very few times LBs blitzed. Again, Miami needs legitimate pass rushers, but not all of the pass rush failures last year were due to incapable players.

Burke blitzed. He just did it with Mike Hull in the most obvious and easiest way to block possible.

Decent players, crappy scheme or crappy (edge) players, decent scheme. The current situation has room for growth (once we see the scheme ...) -- so it's preferable over what we had -- but I'm still not overly optimistic on an immediate turnaround. In fact, I'd bet against it. Hard.
 

NYC#1finsfan

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We also signed a RB as a UDFA that might be fun to watch.

Patrick Laird. Look him up; his bio is awesome. Walked on at Cal, earned a scholarship and then became a captain and two year starter... caught 51 passes.

I bet he'll be a special teams demon and might be hard to cut.
HA!! I knew I wasn't totally crazy. A little, yes but not totally gonzo.....
 

Nappy Roots

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Let me be clear, I'm an absolute fan of this defense. And I do think it will eventually be our secret sauce. But, I can't see it being this year. The defense requires a lot of work for the front 4 especially. It' is DB heavy and uses its S's a little differently than most defenses. The LB's need to be more versatile, and the DL have to be very good in a wide variety of roles, which is probably one of the reasons we were so happy to draft Wilkins, because in addition to being great athletically and work-ethic-wise and a good citizen … he also has the flexibility to play all across the DL from NT to DT to DE, and he's exceptionally smart, so he's bright enough and hard working enough to learn all those roles.

But, we simply don't have the pass rushers to make this defense great this year. And, we have an excellent nucleus of DB's … but we need more DB's. More CB's and as we move on from Reshad Jones and TJ McDonald (both SS's) we'll need a couple more young S's in the new mold. This is going to take time. Don't be disappointed if our DL doesn't look good in 2019, because the learning curve is bad enough, but going through that without a pass rush or enough DE's or DB's to run the system is even worse. Oh yeah, we don't really have a true NT either.

I'm with ya bro … this defense is a great thing. It just may take a little longer to see it, so don't let it get you down.
What pass rushers did NE have last year that made that defense so good?
 

phins_4_ever

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I am not sure if we will shock anybody on D but I think we will be pleasantly surprised. Same on offense. You can clearly see that they are installing a system on O and D and follow that script. Most of it is based on the Patriots way but improved. I.e. our future 3 RB rotation and FB on offense will be loosely based on NE. But as some talking head has said we will improve on the NE system because we will have bigger and better RBs.

I can't say it often enough but we have to step of that "individual assessment" of players with Grier and Flores. If you look at the roster of the Patriots over the years they had a gazillion players nobody in the NFL wanted. Yet, almost everyone one of them was a fitting piece into their system.
The Patriots (besides cheating) were masters of scheming, taking away the strength of other teams while hitting on the weaknesses. It was always more about coaching rather than pure talent. At times they have drafted players and simply reassigned them because these players were a better fit on a different position. Best and most famous example is Edelman. Drafted as a QB (for the wildcat) and reassigned to be a receiver. They have picked up players nobody wanted, ravaging through other teams garbage piles and we were always sitting here and were wondering: where did they get all these players from?

When we start the season most of us will be underwhelmed by the talent (or lack thereof). The next season will be all about Flores and Co. Most coaches coming from the Patriots tree have failed to copy their success they had with the Patriots. But that is because they went away from what made them good coaches with the Patriots.

Flores will get and, so far, has gotten the players he wanted. Next season we will see if he can convert his Patriots success into a successful head coaching job. Looking at the draft and the way they handled the offseason I am quite confident that we will see an over-archiving and well coached Dolphins team. On paper we will look like a 4-win maybe 5-win team. Not because we want to tank but because most cannot see the talent on the team. Anything above a 5-win season will be a win for the coaching staff. If we get close to a .500 season (7-9, 8-8) we should feel like winners because we know we have the right coaching and FO. I always maintained that it was not our mediocre record which kept us at mediocrity all these years. It was substandard coaching and an awful FO which was incapable if taking the next step.

I know playoffs or playoff contention will not be on the table but I am definitely more excited for this season than I have been in a long time.
 

BobDole

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What pass rushers did NE have last year that made that defense so good?

Why do people keep favorably comparing us to them before seeing at least some semblance of results?

These things tend to work out 0% of the time in Miami's favor.
 

The Goat

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If the defense surprises, I am of the opinion it will be scheme-related. I liked the Wilkins pick, and I think that there are some interesting names out there as Free Agents right now. Danny Shelton could come in to this team and be a very nice rotational piece. However, there isn't a lot of edge-rushing talent on this team. Can Charles Harris rebound in a different scheme? Possibly; I think he's much better suited to OLB in a 3-4 than he was used in a 4-3.

All of this said? I do not think the Fins defense will be good early. I think it might be tragically bad, in fact. But as the year goes on, I think it will solidify. Flores seemed to have an uncanny knack for play-calling on defense; he seems to dial up blitzes at the perfect times (that zero blitz he called in the Super Bowl was just perfection) - so we'll see how the defense progresses.
 

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What pass rushers did NE have last year that made that defense so good?
This. Everyone seems to think the D will be horrible, and most seem to point to lack of pass rush, specifically due to a "weak" DE unit. Yet as others have pointed out, NE has generally never had big names at that position. Their pressure is generated through scheme, LB and S blitzes, and good coverage. DEs in this scheme are more concerned with staying in their lanes and setting the edge.

I'm not saying our D will be top 10, but a substantial improvement shouldn't be too much of a shock.

1) no wide 9 crap
2) anyone other than Burke running the D
3) no Kiki trying to cover A.J. ****ING GREEN 20 yards downfield 1 on 1
4) Raekwon looked largely improved towards the end of the year
5) Wilkins keeping our LBs cleaner
6) no more McCain on the boundary
7) our coach just happened to make the best offense in the league look absolutely pedestrian. In the Super Bowl.
 

Nappy Roots

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Why do people keep favorably comparing us to them before seeing at least some semblance of results?

These things tend to work out 0% of the time in Miami's favor.
Well maybe you missed it, because we hired a lifer New England coach. The defensive coordinator in fact. We have a plethora of other new england coaches, why does it seem weird that people speak about New England when discussing how to build a roster?
 

BobDole

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Well maybe you missed it, because we hired a lifer New England coach. The defensive coordinator in fact. We have a plethora of other new england coaches, why does it seem weird that people speak about New England when discussing how to build a roster?

Because people do it every year but without the crucial ingredients of B & B that make it all work. Teams have been trying to replicate what they do for 20 (is that right?) years and the results have been damning. Stop trying to be the Patriots and develop your own system of success ... that hopefully doesn't require cheating.

You are right in the sense that they are ahead of the curve schematically (get those DBs on the field) but their D hasn't been anything to write home about or try to copy for a long time.
 

killafinz

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Because people do it every year but without the crucial ingredients of B & B that make it all work. Teams have been trying to replicate what they do for 20 (is that right?) years and the results have been damning. Stop trying to be the Patriots and develop your own system of success ... that hopefully doesn't require cheating.

You are right in the sense that they are ahead of the curve schematically (get those DBs on the field) but their D hasn't been anything to write home about or try to copy for a long time.
While I do agree with this, I think the most underrated coach of all time is the incredible Dante Scarnecchia. I really think they don't become the franchise they are now without him. Year after year Brady sits back there with all day long, never gets hit let alone rushed. I really believe the only reason Brady is still playing is because of this guys incredible ability to keep Brady clean with patchwork no name lines. If Brady had to take the abuse most qbs take during the year he would have retired years ago, he just doesn't have the body to take hits. We and no other team have this guy, hopefully O'shea learned a thing or two from him, it will be key to our offensive success. I have zero doubt we will have a top 10 defense in a couple of years but will the offense be able to match.
 

BobDole

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While I do agree with this, I think the most underrated coach of all time is the incredible Dante Scarnecchia. I really think they don't become the franchise they are now without him. Year after year Brady sits back there with all day long, never gets hit let alone rushed. I really believe the only reason Brady is still playing is because of this guys incredible ability to keep Brady clean with patchwork no name lines. If Brady had to take the abuse most qbs take during the year he would have retired years ago, he just doesn't have the body to take hits. We and no other team have this guy, hopefully O'shea learned a thing or two from him, it will be key to our offensive success. I have zero doubt we will have a top 10 defense in a couple of years but will the offense be able to match.

Definitely. I remember Brady being pummeled before they had to bring Scarnecchia out of retirement. I don't know enough about Flaherty to say he's capable of turning rags to riches on that level just yet. Would be nice ...
 

killafinz

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Definitely. I remember Brady being pummeled before they had to bring Scarnecchia out of retirement. I don't know enough about Flaherty to say he's capable of turning rags to riches on that level just yet. Would be nice ...
Def would be nice. I think the huge reason Belicheck disciples tend to fail away from home is because of this guy. Not to take away anything from BB his defensive gameplans and schemes are probably the best of all time, but he would be nothing without Brady being able to sit back and have all day. They have effectively neutered every elite pass rush in the last decade and Brady has excelled at learning the 5 yd pass is more important then the 20 yd pass.
 

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What pass rushers did NE have last year that made that defense so good?
The scheme can only do so much. We don't really have anyone who can do those things effectively yet, and until they learn the system, they will be stretched to do even that much.
 
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