Clipse
mediocrity sucks
A 4.38? I'm all for taking him with #12, who's with me?
demaryius thomas breaks foot
- Thread starter Miamifin23
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Clipse
mediocrity sucks
If that 4.38 is legit, we can forget about him even coming considerably close to #43.
FinsFanatic777
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Which proves once again that 40-times are overrated. All you need to do to see if a guy has speed is to watch game tapes. And his game speed is slow.
Pachyderm_Wave
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I agree with this somewhat....I would say that his game speed is very inconsistent to me...
This is why I said I couldn't care less about what his 40 time is....I'm more interested in seeing what he can do as far as getting seperation in and out of his cuts during NFL type routes...
Hell...Matt Jones ran a 4.38 at 6-6, 242 pounds...but anybody that watched him play could tell he didn't play that fast...but I certainly saw glimpses of it when he was the QB at Arkansas...
If this 40 time for Bebe was videotaped and will be sent to NFL teams...then it's virtually the same thing as a pro day without the drills, etc...
I think not being able to answer a lot of questions surrounding him by working out at the combine will hurt his stock a little in some teams eyes...but it doesn't really move in any direction as far as his stock in my opinion...I would still take him about where I had him anyway...
If anything...what this does is automatically raise the stock of guys like Arrelious Benn....who I have as the the #2 WR on my board....and he'll be there on draft day also...
hoops
Tua time!
ahhh....matt jones...that's a good point
r & r pick #12??? over dez bryant...heck no
r & r pick #12??? over dez bryant...heck no
Pat-London
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Anyone know if he has a recorded 3 Cone drill and what time??... this is a big tell in getting of the jam at the LOS and in and out of breaks.
He can clearly run thats for sure. Is he worthy of a low 2nd now with this injury. Id consider it. But it still doesnt hide the fact he came from a wishbone offense where their passing game will not be as developed. We hear it all the time on WR's coming out of Spread systems that they dont know the NFL passing tree. Wishbone offense, even more so. At least with Spread WR's they are comfortable with finding windows and knowing how to play in zones... This guy, not so much.
That being said, there is an awful lot to like about this guy. However, can we afford another 2nd round pick on someone who needs developing. Im hoping that we dont have another low-rep-per-game/developmental pick in the 2nd a la Pat White.
He can clearly run thats for sure. Is he worthy of a low 2nd now with this injury. Id consider it. But it still doesnt hide the fact he came from a wishbone offense where their passing game will not be as developed. We hear it all the time on WR's coming out of Spread systems that they dont know the NFL passing tree. Wishbone offense, even more so. At least with Spread WR's they are comfortable with finding windows and knowing how to play in zones... This guy, not so much.
That being said, there is an awful lot to like about this guy. However, can we afford another 2nd round pick on someone who needs developing. Im hoping that we dont have another low-rep-per-game/developmental pick in the 2nd a la Pat White.
hoops
Tua time!
developmental pick is exactly what he would be...
Chubby
SUPERFAN
Most College receivers need developing. The ones that dont normally go top 15 in the draft, then you get some rare gems that develop quicker.
But for the most part they all need developing. When it comes to Bebe, all the tools are there. He has the size, toughness and what I beleive game speed to make it. This is hopefully a good thing for the fins who can maybe pick him up in the third round.
Chubbs
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Alright when we're talking about the Sam Shields play you have to keep in mind Shields is a guy that might legtimately crack into the 4.2's.
And also, his coverage was dreadful in large part BECAUSE he was so late to recognize the route and turn with BeBe.
If I'm going to criticize Thomas without seeing a 40, it's on the hitch, the dig and the out. There's a good catch on highlight where he actually created a lot of separation on a 15 yard out against Leon Wright of Duke. The problem? It took the guy no less than 5 yards and 6-7 steps to stop his momentum on the play. He didn't round it, and he did come back to the football, both of which are reasons he created the separation, but that's pretty slow to come to a stop for having only run 10 yards before pulling the air brake.
I'm intrigued by these reports of him running 4.4 speed but I will tell you what even if you watch the play that Slimm loves, of him taking a screen pass to the house, you can see that Reshad Jones is clearly a much faster player between the two and the speed figure on Reshad is a 4.56, so unless Reshad busts out in the 4.4 range at the Combine then we should consider Demaryius the 4.6 guy that I've thought for a while.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I would *not* trust a video tape of Thomas running a 40 yard dash. No way. There's a reason teams bring scouts to the workouts with their own stopwatches.
Who "verified" this 4.38 timing? Whose hand was on the stopwatch? How did they run it? Was it electronic? Whose facility? Who sponsored the event? Whose video camera? Who had access to the tape before sending it out?
Sorry, no way. We're talking about literally MILLIONS at stake for a guy like Demaryius Thomas, and if you don't think MILLIONS of dollars is a big enough incentive to fudge anything you can without getting caught...and it's way too easy to play with something like that, too.
Who "verified" this 4.38 timing? Whose hand was on the stopwatch? How did they run it? Was it electronic? Whose facility? Who sponsored the event? Whose video camera? Who had access to the tape before sending it out?
Sorry, no way. We're talking about literally MILLIONS at stake for a guy like Demaryius Thomas, and if you don't think MILLIONS of dollars is a big enough incentive to fudge anything you can without getting caught...and it's way too easy to play with something like that, too.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Exactly. And we're talking about literally millions of dollars. People get killed over a fraction of that. Some perspective here.
hoops
Tua time!
lol...i don't trust that tape either of his 40...too many variables in play that could be in his favor there
regarding bebe what i see is exactly what you're saying ck...he takes way too long to gear down unlike most these dbs and thus these guys are awfully close to ,despite him running some decent routes, being able to jump some of these out routes...i think it's a fair thing for me to say that pro dbs would jump these routes and make plays on the ball...
i just think watching him on tape that he's more hype than substance...i don't dislike him per say but i don't love him either...and i continuously see separation issues...
honestly i think at this stage at least all things being equal i'd rather have taylor price...
regarding bebe what i see is exactly what you're saying ck...he takes way too long to gear down unlike most these dbs and thus these guys are awfully close to ,despite him running some decent routes, being able to jump some of these out routes...i think it's a fair thing for me to say that pro dbs would jump these routes and make plays on the ball...
i just think watching him on tape that he's more hype than substance...i don't dislike him per say but i don't love him either...and i continuously see separation issues...
honestly i think at this stage at least all things being equal i'd rather have taylor price...
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I'd rather have Demaryius than Taylor and I do like Taylor.
The hype from his production and some of his clips, that's mid-1st round quality hype...and I don't think he's worth that. When I go about talking about things I don't like about him, speed calibration, stuff like that...it's always with that in mind.
But, if he's available at #43, I can think of a lot of candidates for that #43 spot that I would not take over Demaryius Thomas.
Bottom line is he's easily the most physical player in the draft and what that means he will be able to do for your team is always find a way to make your roster, and always find a way to make your active duty roster on game day. You could bring him out onto the field to block from the perimeter on Wildcat plays and it would be worth having him there. He's that good. He doesn't just make big plays in the passing game, he made big plays in the running game. That Wreck offense doesn't have the same big play ability if he's not out there blocking downfield. I just watched a game the other day where Anthony Allen busted out like an 87 yard TD run that would have been more like 15 yards if Demaryius didn't happen to be a ridiculous blocker.
Plus a guy that physical, how could he NOT play special teams? You know he'd be great there.
The guy regularly stiff-arms defenders into the dirt. What does that translate to? Cheap yards. And Miami's offense is all about cheap yards. They love to throw those little screens and let a receiver make one guy miss. Demaryius may not be able to consistently outrun people but he can regularly make one guy miss or just pop a fist in his face and send the guy into the grass. Cheap yards on 1st down, creating a 2nd & 3 or 2nd & 2...that's what Miami is about, whether I particularly like it or I don't.
I'd love the guy on my team. My biggest concern with him, Slimm may have already said this I'm not sure...is consistency. He doesn't run consistently. That gear-down on the out route he does two things really well that create the separation and one thing pretty poorly. He gears down poorly, but on the other hand he was patient with the route and he cut it back to the ball nicely. Thing is, even later you can see another instance of him running the deep out and this time there is zero issue with gear down, and he still cuts back to the ball nicely, but then he fails to haul it in.
Is that the kind of player he is? Two things nice and one thing not so nice? If so he'll piss off the coaches.
But then when I see him block and be physical and make cheap yards happen, show such strong hands...I'd still take him on my team. He's a better prospect than Pat Turner was.
The hype from his production and some of his clips, that's mid-1st round quality hype...and I don't think he's worth that. When I go about talking about things I don't like about him, speed calibration, stuff like that...it's always with that in mind.
But, if he's available at #43, I can think of a lot of candidates for that #43 spot that I would not take over Demaryius Thomas.
Bottom line is he's easily the most physical player in the draft and what that means he will be able to do for your team is always find a way to make your roster, and always find a way to make your active duty roster on game day. You could bring him out onto the field to block from the perimeter on Wildcat plays and it would be worth having him there. He's that good. He doesn't just make big plays in the passing game, he made big plays in the running game. That Wreck offense doesn't have the same big play ability if he's not out there blocking downfield. I just watched a game the other day where Anthony Allen busted out like an 87 yard TD run that would have been more like 15 yards if Demaryius didn't happen to be a ridiculous blocker.
Plus a guy that physical, how could he NOT play special teams? You know he'd be great there.
The guy regularly stiff-arms defenders into the dirt. What does that translate to? Cheap yards. And Miami's offense is all about cheap yards. They love to throw those little screens and let a receiver make one guy miss. Demaryius may not be able to consistently outrun people but he can regularly make one guy miss or just pop a fist in his face and send the guy into the grass. Cheap yards on 1st down, creating a 2nd & 3 or 2nd & 2...that's what Miami is about, whether I particularly like it or I don't.
I'd love the guy on my team. My biggest concern with him, Slimm may have already said this I'm not sure...is consistency. He doesn't run consistently. That gear-down on the out route he does two things really well that create the separation and one thing pretty poorly. He gears down poorly, but on the other hand he was patient with the route and he cut it back to the ball nicely. Thing is, even later you can see another instance of him running the deep out and this time there is zero issue with gear down, and he still cuts back to the ball nicely, but then he fails to haul it in.
Is that the kind of player he is? Two things nice and one thing not so nice? If so he'll piss off the coaches.
But then when I see him block and be physical and make cheap yards happen, show such strong hands...I'd still take him on my team. He's a better prospect than Pat Turner was.
Pachyderm_Wave
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I'm already on record with the opinion that I think Taylor Price is going to be a better pro receiver than Thomas....I actually have Price one slot ahead of Bebe on my WR board....and it's never been because I don't LIKE Thomas...I just see legitimate concerns with separation and questions about his routes...
You want to see seperation? Watch Taylor Price....It also wouldn't surprise me at all if he does run a legitimate 4.38-4.40 at the combine...
That's an excellent point about not trusting the video.....good scouts will clock a guy in a 40....and make him turn around and run another 40 in the opposite direction and average the two times just in case he's running on an ever so slight decline in a certain direction that could knock off tenths of second.....especially if he's somewhere that the scout isn't familiar with...
There's no telling what all stunts are pulled in the evaluation process when millions and millions of dollars are at stake..
You want to see seperation? Watch Taylor Price....It also wouldn't surprise me at all if he does run a legitimate 4.38-4.40 at the combine...
That's an excellent point about not trusting the video.....good scouts will clock a guy in a 40....and make him turn around and run another 40 in the opposite direction and average the two times just in case he's running on an ever so slight decline in a certain direction that could knock off tenths of second.....especially if he's somewhere that the scout isn't familiar with...
There's no telling what all stunts are pulled in the evaluation process when millions and millions of dollars are at stake..
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