Did Charles Harris have a successful rookie season?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by number1fin, Jan 11, 2018.

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Did Charles Harris have a successful rookie season?

  1. Yes

    42.9%
  2. No

    57.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

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    It depends on the position. D-lineman till take little longer to develop; strength and development of pass rush moves take time.
     
  2. fin415

    fin415 Not a slot receiver Finheaven VIP

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    In the arm chair GM olympics, you're correct. For the real world, we still have players turning out to be busts taken at #1 and about 50% of the first round (off the top of my head) not living up to the teams expectations (and those are the only ones that matter).
     
  3. Buff

    Buff From a galaxy far far away.... Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Voted no, because you would expect from a first round DE, they would produce a bit more.

    That said, I don't really think he was given as many opportunities as he would have liked, and the fans would have liked.

    But there is a bit there that shows some promise.

    Fast, elusive, nice spin move.

    Now, just draft a left DE to replace Wake or Who ever, and it looks promising.

    Sam Hubbard would be nice in the 3rd if he lasts that long.
     
  4. phinfan40353

    phinfan40353 Scout Team

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    I completely agree with the reality. My point is more about holding the FO accountable and the lowered expectations our fans have developed due to continued failure.

    Our fans now rush to defend why a 1st Rounder is not producing. Why? Because it is us? Sorry, I don't subscribe to that philosophy.

    I'm tired of accepting less from this FO, this organization, this coaching staff and these players. I'm tired of excuses. I'm tired of talk and I'm tired of accepting failure in this organization.

    The fans have become complacent with failure and expectant of superiority by the Patriots. I honestly question the mettle of the players on this team. I seriously doubt we could even handle success even if we accidentally drafted well and signed well to develop a group of players who could accidentally get to the playoffs consistently.

    People complain that coaches like Marvin Lewis can never win a playoff game yet he keeps getting extended. Or that Matt Ryan, until recently, could ever deliver a Super Bowl birth or, possibly, a championship.

    These realities are as much cultural problems as they are talent/luck/coaching, etc.

    What I see in this organization is an epic erosion of talent, knowledge, coaching, leadership, experience and vision to win. From top to bottom. Who do we have that has won? Consistently?

    You can't change expectations and culture if you don't have someone leading who knows HOW to win. We've had our chances and run them out of town. We demand perfection from the likes of Johnson, Saban and Parcells. Yet we become complacent with a litany of failed coaches who have no experience or ability to lead men. Continuing to draw coaches, GMs and players from the same failed mentality.

    I question if the composition of this organization knows how to win. And it has infected the fans to the point, we accept failure as an expectation.

    I posted in every thread that was relevant that we NEEDED Tom Coughlin instead of Gase. That he could build this franchise. The man comes knocking on your door and wants to take on the challenge. No. We turned him away. We needed the "next BB".

    Yea, that's going well. I bet the Jags are regretting getting Coughlin.
     
  5. hoops

    hoops exited stage left Hammered

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    Not when the vision is what the player will be two years down the road
     
  6. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Agreed. Given the number of R1 picks who bust, or are backups most of their careers, or average most of their careers, waiting 1-2 years is a win. NO draft class should be judged til year 3
     
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  7. srp1979

    srp1979 Well-Known Member Donator

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    For a second, I was wondering how he was able to amass 3 minutes worth of highlights........then I realized this reel played the same play several times in slow mo. lol
     
  8. PhinsAAA

    PhinsAAA Well-Known Member

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    How funny it is to me people here pointing out his near miss sacks then complain about losing OV lmao. I truly question anyones knowledge who claims the kid had zero production his rookie season...
     
  9. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    That's interesting. I didn't realize there was so much praise for Jordan Willis. I stopped posting here in maybe early February, determined to avoid the typical Adjuster offseason mode, like the recent thread insisting we'd be the Browns without Tannehill. It happened early this year. Gaps in the NFL are so minuscule. That's what allows the Dolphins to physically dominate the Patriots a month ago. But during the offseason the reality is set aside and suddenly all the Adjusters come out in full force. Supporting players are the worst in the league and our assistant coaches are the worst in the league. We've been wronged...diabolically wronged.

    I can't take it. Anyway, at that early February point Willis was considered somewhat stiff after not such a great performance in the Senior Bowl, where he struggled against even the moderate tackles. Long strider but without a great finishing burst.

    The combine was the startling aspect. If there were over/unders on every test at the combine, I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone at any position in any year who obliterated his over/unders to the extent Jordan Willis did. He tested as a supreme athlete, even if it didn't always translate to what he looked like at Kansas State. So now there's an obvious dilemma. After the combine I expected Willis to be drafted higher than where he ended up.

    I preferred TJ Watt, or that cornerback from Washington, Kevin King.

    Harris wasn't on my radar because I couldn't imagine the Dolphins drafting another analytics-flunking defensive end. Once someone puts up combine numbers like Harris did, then he's going to be a tease. You can't pay any attention to pro day numbers in a friendly environment at the home school. Maybe if he's still available late. But numbers like that should eliminate from first round consideration.

    Charles Harris didn't just miss making sacks or making plays because something went unfairly wrong. He barely missed because that's what his athletic ability aligns with. He lacks that extra gear, the one identified by test scores like vertical jump. I'm afraid we drafted another guy who fits Adjuster mode.
     
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  10. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I would say yes. From the standpoint of production I expected more, but he showed improvement and I think the way teams attack Miami has to be considered as well. With the lack of speed on defense, teams know they can just get the ball out quickly to the perimeter and usually that's all they have to do.

    You watch that second NE game and you can see the Patriots game plan didn't include throwing the ball down the field. That is until they realized they had to. Unfortunately that game was an aberration for Miami's defense.

    Year two for Harris will be crucial to see where he goes from here. Pass rush being so important, I'd still look to bring in another pass rusher in the draft.
     
  11. Dogbone34

    Dogbone34 cowboy surfer

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    Year after year this forum spoon feeds the Dolphins a quality draft strategy and year after year Miami doubles down on a Harris, a Carroo, an Odrick...

    The easy pick was Watt/Foster/Njoku/Peppers or trade out but hey lets out think the room, come on down Charles Harris. That's the last time we heard from him.

    This shouldn't be so hard.
     
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  12. Stills&Landry

    Stills&Landry A True Fan

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    Watt could have played SAM. Foster we passed on cause he's a headcase, that I get. Njoku would have been real nice. Peppers is being terribly mis used in cle, he could have started at weak for us. Even if it was a surprise on draft day Evan Engram has looked good.

    But the guys I truly regret passing on played the same position of need as Harris. We wouldn't be looking for edge setters had we taken Taco and Tak McKinley has proven to be the best edge guy taken last year. I guess the shoulder kept us away.

    What's more confounding was having taken everybody's unwarranted man crush, McMillan when everyone and their mom's knew albeit not an orthodox tackler Cunningham was the better player in POA, coverage, blitzing, plain value, stayed healthy and tore it up in Hou.
     
  13. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan Donator

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    It wasn’t a successful season, as he was no where near being a top 32 or even top 50, 2017 rookie. That doesn’t mean it was a bad pick. He had flashes of why we picked him. DE is one of the most important and hard to find positions, and he still has a lot of upside. Wake and Brach are probably in their last seasons with Miami. We don’t know about Hayes. 2018 and ‘19 where he needs to step up. Jason Taylor and even JJ Watt didn’t dominate their first season, and no im not saying he will be that good, but one year doesn’t determine the success of a draft.
     
  14. Zounds

    Zounds CPA4LYFE Donator

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    Harris’ first season wasn’t good. He showed he’s got some speed and athleticism, but he also showed us he doesn’t know how to use it. I remember Jason Taylor struggling his first season with understanding how to use his speed in the pass rush. JT became a wizard at setting up the OT the first 3 quarters, then blowing by him in the 4th when it mattered. And then there are other DE’s that are super athletic that never put it together. I’m not sure which one Harris will be.
     
  15. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

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    The good part is that Harris has a year of NFL speed football experience. He now knows what is expected of him in year 2
     
  16. phinfan40353

    phinfan40353 Scout Team

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    Then that becomes a "luxury" pick. Something we cannot afford. We can't even hit on immediate picks. Claiming to have a vision into the future of what a player can be infers we have insight and ability to develop said player.

    Something we also do not have a great track record.

    For an established organization with a proven culture I can see your argument. But in our situation, with our staffs and need for immediate validation, I don't think your argument applies here.
     
  17. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Hope Hoops is right,I like the kids aditude but the question is was his first year is a sucess and in the mode of Bill Parcells Harris is a pup that didn't bite and if they don't bite as pups according to Parcells they don't bite as dogs so the answer this season for Harris is No.
     
  18. Bufeo

    Bufeo Active Member

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    When Harris was taken at 22, Cam Robinson, Forrest Lamp, Dalvin Cook, Sid Jones were all available. So we pretty much knew at least one of these would be available if we traded down to the top of the 2nd round.
    So one of these players plus a couple of extra picks for the trade down is certainly greater than Harris at this point. So not a successful pick so far in that respect.

    Who knows though, he works hard, still could turn out to be very good....but tough to justify his pick at 22 so far.
     

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