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Did Dave George "tap out" here?

calmrage

calmrage

Calmrage A.K.A. Jay Lawrence
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OK, everyone read Dave George's Ginn scalping article in the PB Post the other day. I HAD to write to try to educate him just like I have tried with many of you Ginn bashers. Here's the conversation..........

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]On 9/24/09 8:27 AM, "Jay Lawrence"
[/FONT]We wont see Ginn's best until we have a qb who can threaten the secondary. If Ginn were a Colt, he'd be deadly.

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Dave George wrote: [/FONT]
Jay, I agree with you about Ginn being better as a Colt. Their quarterback got the winning play the other night from a kid who usually isn't even on[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] [/FONT]the field and had just one catch that night. There are only a few Peyton[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] [/FONT]Manning's in a lifetime, though. Pennington put the ball right where it[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] [/FONT]needed to be to win that game and Ginn didn't catch it. If you want him or[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] [/FONT]any other quarterback to do that two or three times more in a game until a[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] [/FONT]receiver gets it right, that's asking a lot.[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] [/FONT] Thanks for taking the time to write. Obviously, you are not alone in[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] [/FONT]doubting Pennington's arm strength. It's a tag he has worn his entire career[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] [/FONT]but still his career as a starter goes on. There's more to this than just[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] throwing it a mile. JaMarcus Russell can do that. - Dave[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]
[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]On 9/24/09 11:50 AM, "Jay Lawrence"
[/FONT]Obviously there is more to it than arm strength. I love Penny! Great leader, game manager, student of the game and he's great at spreading the ball around and using all his weapons. He would be GREAT with big receivers in a west coast offense.

The problem you and many fans have is that you want Ginn to be like a T.O. or Anquan Bolden, who would flourish with Penny. Ginn is more like a faster Marvin Harrison or Tory Holt. His speed and route running gets him separation from the DB but, if your QB cannot AT LEAST present a threat of going deep, the DB's can play soft coverage on Ginn and negate his speed by keeping Ginn in front of them.[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]

As for Penny's "perfect" pass and Ginn hitting the deck after catches.

#1. Should Ginn have caught that pass? Yeah. he should have but, the pass was weak and underthrown giving the DB a chance to hit Ginn's elbow and force the drop.

#2. Nobody gave Harrison or Holt grief for hitting the deck on routes in front of the coverage, which they did ALL THE TIME because a few plays later they'd get hit in stride on an out and up for 6. You never saw them out jumping DB's for the ball.

[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]I'm not dissing Penny but, we will NEVER see Ginn's true potential as long as Penny is under center.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Dave George wrote: [/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial][/FONT]OK, Jay. Bad fit or underperforming receiver, it’s not working, and this is what the Dolphins are stuck with the rest of the season. Parcells didn’t spend as much effort on this in the draft as he might have, so he must not be as worried about it as I am. Talk to you later. Dave
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​
 
calmrage said:
OK, everyone read Dave George's Ginn scalping article in the PB Post the other day. I HAD to write to try to educate him just like I have tried with many of you Ginn bashers. Here's the conversation..........

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]On 9/24/09 8:27 AM, "Jay Lawrence" [/FONT]
We wont see Ginn's best until we have a qb who can threaten the secondary. If Ginn were a Colt, he'd be deadly.

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Dave George wrote: [/FONT]
Jay, I agree with you about Ginn being better as a Colt. Their quarterback got the winning play the other night from a kid who usually isn't even onthe field and had just one catch that night. There are only a few PeytonManning's in a lifetime, though. Pennington put the ball right where itneeded to be to win that game and Ginn didn't catch it. If you want him orany other quarterback to do that two or three times more in a game until areceiver gets it right, that's asking a lot. Thanks for taking the time to write. Obviously, you are not alone indoubting Pennington's arm strength. It's a tag he has worn his entire careerbut still his career as a starter goes on. There's more to this than just[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] throwing it a mile. JaMarcus Russell can do that. - Dave[/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]On 9/24/09 11:50 AM, "Jay Lawrence" [/FONT]
Obviously there is more to it than arm strength. I love Penny! Great leader, game manager, student of the game and he's great at spreading the ball around and using all his weapons. He would be GREAT with big receivers in a west coast offense.

The problem you and many fans have is that you want Ginn to be like a T.O. or Anquan Bolden, who would flourish with Penny. Ginn is more like a faster Marvin Harrison or Tory Holt. His speed and route running gets him separation from the DB but, if your QB cannot AT LEAST present a threat of going deep, the DB's can play soft coverage on Ginn and negate his speed by keeping Ginn in front of them.

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]As for Penny's "perfect" pass and Ginn hitting the deck after catches. [/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]#1. Should Ginn have caught that pass? Yeah. he should have but, the pass was weak and underthrown giving the DB a chance to hit Ginn's elbow and force the drop. [/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]#2. Nobody gave Harrison or Holt grief for hitting the deck on routes in front of the coverage, which they did ALL THE TIME because a few plays later they'd get hit in stride on an out and up for 6. You never saw them out jumping DB's for the ball. [/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]I'm not dissing Penny but, we will NEVER see Ginn's true potential as long as Penny is under center.[/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Dave George wrote: [/FONT]
OK, Jay. Bad fit or underperforming receiver, it’s not working, and this is what the Dolphins are stuck with the rest of the season. Parcells didn’t spend as much effort on this in the draft as he might have, so he must not be as worried about it as I am. Talk to you later. Dave


​
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you know what will be funny. the moment we have a qb that can throw it down the field everyone on here will be like "wow our line is playing well openning up holes" and "our wr's are alot better than i thought."

Its amazing the things you can do when there is not 8 men in the box all the time.

All i can do is wait for the switch. I like penny but he is what he is. a great backup for temp duty.
 
enduro said:
you know what will be funny. the moment we have a qb that can throw it down the field everyone on here will be like "wow our line is playing well openning up holes" and "our wr's are alot better than i thought."

Its amazing the things you can do when there is not 8 men in the box all the time.

All i can do is wait for the switch. I like penny but he is what he is. a great backup for temp duty.
Click to expand...

What switch are you waiting for? Henne? Henne sucks. Watching him against 2nd and 3rd stringers in the preseason was bad enough. Arm strength is nice but it is overrated. You only go far down the field a handful of times a game and that does not mean the running game and the o-line is going to be that much better. Did you see the Colts game? "Noodle arm" seemed to be doing just fine to me, and our running game was awesome. If Penny is a backup I would hate to see what Henne and White are.
 
deezdgbt said:
What switch are you waiting for? Henne? Henne sucks. .
Click to expand...

And what are you basing this incredibly informed opinion on? One regular season drive (which btw was successful) and a handful of preseason games?? Come on, anything made now is a complete guess. It's entirely too early to tell whether or not Henne will be successful as an NFL QB.
 
Yeah, he tapped out.

And he knows very little about the game of football.

Good job on enlightening him!

LD
 
Why is it that he should have caught it...but....there's no but....even he said he should have caught it...get over it. Geez.
 
You lost a little when you said Ginn has good route running ability - he doesn't. All Ginn has is speed - and that can be negated. His hands are suspect - and always have been. His toughness is non-existent - he won't fight for a ball and plays like he weighs 140 rather than 170.

I will give him this - he is steadily improving. His routes are improving and hs ie getting a little more separation. But - he is still NOWHERE near what a #1 WR or #9 draft pick should be.

And before you say it - I wanted Willis before that draft, during that draft, and after that draft. That would have been a good use of the #9 pick and all of that cap space.
 
Bill C said:
You lost a little when you said Ginn has good route running ability - he doesn't. All Ginn has is speed - and that can be negated. His hands are suspect - and always have been. His toughness is non-existent - he won't fight for a ball and plays like he weighs 140 rather than 170.

I will give him this - he is steadily improving. His routes are improving and hs ie getting a little more separation. But - he is still NOWHERE near what a #1 WR or #9 draft pick should be.

And before you say it - I wanted Willis before that draft, during that draft, and after that draft. That would have been a good use of the #9 pick and all of that cap space.
Click to expand...


You're slipping Bill. Saying Ginn's hands or route running are suspect would appear to come from someone who followed the Phins closer 2 years ago. Watch how open he gets all game with his route running and even if you consider the missed play vs. the Colts a drop, I don't, it'd be his first this year.

With the Colts or in a Mike Martz type offense , Ginn would look like an all pro. With Penny, he never will.
 
calmrage said:
OK, everyone read Dave George's Ginn scalping article in the PB Post the other day. I HAD to write to try to educate him just like I have tried with many of you Ginn bashers. Here's the conversation..........

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]On 9/24/09 8:27 AM, "Jay Lawrence" [/FONT]
We wont see Ginn's best until we have a qb who can threaten the secondary. If Ginn were a Colt, he'd be deadly.

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Dave George wrote: [/FONT]
Jay, I agree with you about Ginn being better as a Colt. Their quarterback got the winning play the other night from a kid who usually isn't even onthe field and had just one catch that night. There are only a few PeytonManning's in a lifetime, though. Pennington put the ball right where itneeded to be to win that game and Ginn didn't catch it. If you want him orany other quarterback to do that two or three times more in a game until areceiver gets it right, that's asking a lot. Thanks for taking the time to write. Obviously, you are not alone indoubting Pennington's arm strength. It's a tag he has worn his entire careerbut still his career as a starter goes on. There's more to this than just[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] throwing it a mile. JaMarcus Russell can do that. - Dave[/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]On 9/24/09 11:50 AM, "Jay Lawrence" [/FONT]
Obviously there is more to it than arm strength. I love Penny! Great leader, game manager, student of the game and he's great at spreading the ball around and using all his weapons. He would be GREAT with big receivers in a west coast offense.

The problem you and many fans have is that you want Ginn to be like a T.O. or Anquan Bolden, who would flourish with Penny. Ginn is more like a faster Marvin Harrison or Tory Holt. His speed and route running gets him separation from the DB but, if your QB cannot AT LEAST present a threat of going deep, the DB's can play soft coverage on Ginn and negate his speed by keeping Ginn in front of them.

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]As for Penny's "perfect" pass and Ginn hitting the deck after catches. [/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]#1. Should Ginn have caught that pass? Yeah. he should have but, the pass was weak and underthrown giving the DB a chance to hit Ginn's elbow and force the drop. [/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]#2. Nobody gave Harrison or Holt grief for hitting the deck on routes in front of the coverage, which they did ALL THE TIME because a few plays later they'd get hit in stride on an out and up for 6. You never saw them out jumping DB's for the ball. [/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]I'm not dissing Penny but, we will NEVER see Ginn's true potential as long as Penny is under center.[/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Dave George wrote: [/FONT]
OK, Jay. Bad fit or underperforming receiver, it’s not working, and this is what the Dolphins are stuck with the rest of the season. Parcells didn’t spend as much effort on this in the draft as he might have, so he must not be as worried about it as I am. Talk to you later. Dave


​
Click to expand...

Sorry no he didn't tap out, he just didn't see any reason to debate Ginn with someone who looks at him with aqua colored glasses. It gets old hearing all the excuses and the shoulda, woulda, coulda, or if he had a QB with a stringer arm yada, yada, yada. It's about proving it on the field and he has not done that as of yet. If he ever does I will gladly sing his praises but until then I'll think he was a wasted pick and nothing better than an average #2 receiver.
 
Bill C said:
You lost a little when you said Ginn has good route running ability - he doesn't. All Ginn has is speed - and that can be negated. His hands are suspect - and always have been. His toughness is non-existent - he won't fight for a ball and plays like he weighs 140 rather than 170.

I will give him this - he is steadily improving. His routes are improving and hs ie getting a little more separation. But - he is still NOWHERE near what a #1 WR or #9 draft pick should be.

And before you say it - I wanted Willis before that draft, during that draft, and after that draft. That would have been a good use of the #9 pick and all of that cap space.
Click to expand...

ted ginn reminds me of mark duper. We still need our clayton and we will be fine. and a qb to get them the ball deep
 
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enduro said:
ted ginn reminds me of mark duper. We still need our clayton and we will be fine. and a qb to get them the ball deep
Click to expand...

But this is the point. Duper was a #2 to Clayton, Ginn will be a #2 to a true #1. He was drafted at #9 in the draft. Is that his fault? NO, but it just keep reminding everyone what Cam and Mueller did to this team. Most fans knew Ginn was not a good pick at #9 and he has done nothing to show any difference.
 
deezdgbt said:
What switch are you waiting for? Henne? Henne sucks. Watching him against 2nd and 3rd stringers in the preseason was bad enough. Arm strength is nice but it is overrated. You only go far down the field a handful of times a game and that does not mean the running game and the o-line is going to be that much better. Did you see the Colts game? "Noodle arm" seemed to be doing just fine to me, and our running game was awesome. If Penny is a backup I would hate to see what Henne and White are.
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this season will go one of two ways starting this week. 1. we will upset the chargers and turn this around with penny and henne will be the starter next year. or #2. we will lose this week and keep losing with a few wins mixed in and we will make the switch sometime during the season.

I saw wr's open down field last game. but penny didn't even bother to look at them. he just dinked it off short. I take my chances with henne if this season looks like it is going to be a wash.
 
OrlandoFin said:
But this is the point. Duper was a #2 to Clayton, Ginn will be a #2 to a true #1. He was drafted at #9 in the draft. Is that his fault? NO, but it just keep reminding everyone what Cam and Mueller did to this team. Most fans knew Ginn was not a good pick at #9 and he has done nothing to show any difference.
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well your right but he still looks like duper. so we need to go find our #1 next year. he is what he is. I still like him and think he will be very productive. Maybe with henne in he can finally be that #1. We will have to wait and see.
 
OrlandoFin said:
But this is the point. Duper was a #2 to Clayton, Ginn will be a #2 to a true #1. He was drafted at #9 in the draft. Is that his fault? NO, but it just keep reminding everyone what Cam and Mueller did to this team. Most fans knew Ginn was not a good pick at #9 and he has done nothing to show any difference.
Click to expand...

I think people put too much emphasis on the draft position of a player. With so many draft bust each year you must ask yourself one question. Is he a good nfl player or not. If he is good then who cares where you got him.
 
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