Did Grier Make the Right Choice Trading from 12 to 6? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Did Grier Make the Right Choice Trading from 12 to 6?

I think even with hindsight it is clear if we wanted one of the top 4 receivers we had to trade up from 12. Every other team would know the Fins would target a receiver, so there would have been intense competition to get that last of the 4 if the Fins hadn't already got Waddle. I didn't like the cost at the time of a 1st round pick to move from 12 to 6 but I guess that is the going rate.
 
I would have held at 3, for all the reasons you mentioned. It was beyond sickening when somehow we got schooled in draft value by Dave Gettleman. The 49ers raved about the value of that full month to figure everything out. Meanwhile we could have taken advantage of a full month of other teams nervously craving a quarterback, or several. Who knew it would turn out to be Trey Lance? But that's the point I made when the trades happened: There were so many quarterbacks it was almost guaranteed to work out in Miami's favor.

Grier's net return was miserable, given the leverage we owned. Who cares if not many understand that? The same thing shows up in future book odds when Dolphin fans here and elsewhere are salivating to take ripoff odds.

Besides, it is immensely satisfying to sit back and allow panic buying to play out in your favor. eBay is not much of a seller's market anymore but 20 years ago during Tiger Woods' heyday it was awesome to sell golf clubs starting at 1 cent opening bid and have it sit at next to nothing for a full week, until the awesome flurry in the final minutes and especially seconds. You end up with far beyond your projection. Often I'd sell used clubs and get more than the price of the same club when new. Numerous buyers eye the auction all week at the bargain basement rate, then since they've invested so much time watching they feel compelled to invest, and then the competitive juices kick in and they end up spending far beyond intention.

That's the way this stuff works. I always prioritize situational influence. But you need the stomach for it. Grier had to be willing to get stuck. My dad never had that makeup. He'd list the same type of golf clubs ands start panicking if the bid didn't jump to the moon in the opening hour of a 7-day auction.
Doesn’t always work like that though.

Rumor has it Atlanta wanted to trade down for the right price. They held out until the very end and went with Pitts because their asking price wasn’t met.

Who’s to say the San Fran wouldn’t have traded with Atlanta on draft day and left us at the alter? Every other team eventually got its QB, so there wasn’t much panic going on to trade up in this draft.

We would drafted Pitts at 3, which would’ve made sense either way, but is Pitts > Waddle + future 1st? Not sure...
 
The Fins fleeced SF and Philly fleeced the Fins. Philly got Smith and a #1 and a player.
But Waddle was who they wanted so its fine.
The Pitts whiners are clueless. They never wanted him. They needed a big play WR.
 
I think it is pretty clear that if we stayed at 12 the Eagles and Giants would have taken Smith and Waddle. It simply wasn’t a risk our staff wanted to take; particularly if the Eagles favored Waddle over Smith. We made the trade months ago, so there was no way to guess how their draft board would have changed as the 1st round approached.
 
The trades are perspective, whether you like them or not.

It's simple for me.

We had the #3 overall.

In the end we drafted Waddle, got an additional 3rd next year and 1st in 2023.

We also swapped 1sts essentially with SF NEXT year.

They chose Lance.

I have a feeling when We are picking top 10 next year these trades will look a lot better
 
He gambled to get Pitts or Chase. He lost. Should have taken Pitts at 3.
Not a gamble if the target was Waddle. You stay at 3 if you really want one of those 2.

They targeted Waddle.

Great move to move back into the top 10.
 
No, should have stayed at 3. Got pitts/Harris. Could have sill got their tackle and safety. A huge gamble on Phillips. I hope he is the next JT. A huge gamble non the less!
 
It's always unfair to judge things like this via hindsight. I mean, if any of these GM's knew when a player was going to come off the board -- they'd all make better decisions, right?

For example, let's assume MIA was hoping to land Javonte Williams at 36. They couldn't know that DEN was going to trade ahead of them.
Conversely, let's assume MIA had no interest in taking Javonte Williams at 36. The Broncos couldn't know that for sure. But they surrendered some assets they might not have needed to.

Considering Grier-Flores goals and, again, not knowing ahead of time what any of the other 31 org's were going to do or not do, I believe they made the appropriate moves to ensure they achieved their goal.

What they didn't have was the convenience of choosing from different scenarios out of hindsight.

As someone that championed hard for Devonta Smith -- I like the idea of MIA taking advantage of the deal NYG got from PHI. However I can't criticize Grier-Flores for not knowing how that would eventually play out. Because there was no way to know.

And I'm happy with Waddle.
Good post.

Absolutely right on Williams. Maybe he wasn't even a Miami target. But he was the last of the three top running backs with a perceived drop off in talent after that. For that reason it made sense for Denver to jump the Dolphins knowing Miami's running back room.

On a similar note, Eichenberg was likely the last plug and play tackle so Miami trading up there made sense.
 
Great question @SF Dolphin Fan , and one I've been wondering ever since Ja'Marr Chase was selected #6 by the Bengals.

In hindsight it is easy to say no. Either we should have stayed up at #3 and secured Chase, or we should have stayed down at #12 with those two extra 1st rounders from Philly, because either you get a top elite talent or you get value from Tier 2. But, I thought that at #6 we were in the right spot to get the back end of Tier 1, and I advocated for the trade down. I liked being at #6 rather than #3 or #12. I was wrong, but that's hindsight talking. I think at the time it was good thinking to move down from #3 to #6 and pick up a 1st. The wisdom at the time was fairly strong that we could get Chase or Pitts at #6. While the QB theories held up ... the faith in Devonta Smith did not. The Pitts hype train took off and he skyrocketed after our trade from a mid to late 1st rounder to the 1st non-QB in the draft, so that option was gone. The love for the #2 best overall prospect in this draft, Penei Sewell evaporated, and even the most OL starved team in the draft, the Bengals, didn't take him. The market for Watson shriveled up so Houston was no longer trading him for a draft pick in the top 5. In sum, the landscape changed dramatically. We ended up playing a musical chairs with 5 seats and we had pick #6.

When Pitts was drafted we should have known our contingency plan had a very realistic possibility of needing to be invoked. Despite masterful draft run-up ... we were going to need to release that parachute. We needed that finger on the rip cord of that contingency plan. When Chase was selected, we needed to pull that rip cord. But, we didn't. In fact, we sent up our pick with over 3:00 minutes left on the clock. Clearly, the Dolphins valued Waddle. While I may have seen him as a drop down to Tier 2 in talent, and while many people may have clearly preferred Smith to Waddle, apparently, the Dolphins valued Waddle right where he was at. They got a guy they were comfortable getting, and if they weren't comfortable, they would have been working the phones for much more of those last 3:00+ minutes we were on the clock. I would have had that contingency plan ready to go, and I would have traded down if possible ... and it likely was possible.

Maybe they knew they couldn't recover the 1st they had lost to trade back up from 12 and didn't want to look desperate because their jobs are ultimately on the line. Maybe they had so thoroughly explored the options that they knew they couldn't get value because nobody coveted the #6 spot at that time. Maybe they had offers and just loved Waddle that much. Regardless, it didn't happen. I'll factor this into my evaluation of Grier, and if Waddle pans out we'll obviously let this slide into the ether without marking Grier down for it. But, obviously, everyone will be watching the careers of Chase and Pitts and if they fulfill their potential, Grier will be graded harshly. And if someone between #7 and #12 turns out to be an elite star, again, Grier will be judged harshly. But at the end of the day, I would have traded back from #3 to #6 and made those two trades ... so I can't be too harsh on Grier no matter what. he could have picked Smith ... but I have my reservations about his weight too, so I get why he didn't. We can't judge people on what might have been. We can only judge them on what our decision would have been and what they actually did. We know that Tunsil is a good player ... but we traded him for what became several players, including Jalen Waddle .. and ultimately that's the only fair comparison we should make.
 
the thing i don't see anyone saying is that you can't just choose a spot to trade into, it takes a partner.

So while id gave loved to give up a bit less and move to somewhere between 7 and 10 I understand at the time it might not have been possible.

Personally I'd gave stuck at #3 and taken Pitts, that said if Waddle was the guy I think its a smart move all things considered.
 
Maybe, but there's no way to know.

Yes there is a way to know. Grier plainly said it. He moved up to 6 to take one of 4 players. He spent 2 first-round picks plus some extra for one of those 4 players, one of which was Waddle. So no, Grier did not move up for just Pitts or Chase.
 
Great question @SF Dolphin Fan , and one I've been wondering ever since Ja'Marr Chase was selected #6 by the Bengals.

In hindsight it is easy to say no. Either we should have stayed up at #3 and secured Chase, or we should have stayed down at #12 with those two extra 1st rounders from Philly, because either you get a top elite talent or you get value from Tier 2. But, I thought that at #6 we were in the right spot to get the back end of Tier 1, and I advocated for the trade down. I liked being at #6 rather than #3 or #12. I was wrong, but that's hindsight talking. I think at the time it was good thinking to move down from #3 to #6 and pick up a 1st. The wisdom at the time was fairly strong that we could get Chase or Pitts at #6. While the QB theories held up ... the faith in Devonta Smith did not. The Pitts hype train took off and he skyrocketed after our trade from a mid to late 1st rounder to the 1st non-QB in the draft, so that option was gone. The love for the #2 best overall prospect in this draft, Penei Sewell evaporated, and even the most OL starved team in the draft, the Bengals, didn't take him. The market for Watson shriveled up so Houston was no longer trading him for a draft pick in the top 5. In sum, the landscape changed dramatically. We ended up playing a musical chairs with 5 seats and we had pick #6.

When Pitts was drafted we should have known our contingency plan had a very realistic possibility of needing to be invoked. Despite masterful draft run-up ... we were going to need to release that parachute. We needed that finger on the rip cord of that contingency plan. When Chase was selected, we needed to pull that rip cord. But, we didn't. In fact, we sent up our pick with over 3:00 minutes left on the clock. Clearly, the Dolphins valued Waddle. While I may have seen him as a drop down to Tier 2 in talent, and while many people may have clearly preferred Smith to Waddle, apparently, the Dolphins valued Waddle right where he was at. They got a guy they were comfortable getting, and if they weren't comfortable, they would have been working the phones for much more of those last 3:00+ minutes we were on the clock. I would have had that contingency plan ready to go, and I would have traded down if possible ... and it likely was possible.

Maybe they knew they couldn't recover the 1st they had lost to trade back up from 12 and didn't want to look desperate because their jobs are ultimately on the line. Maybe they had so thoroughly explored the options that they knew they couldn't get value because nobody coveted the #6 spot at that time. Maybe they had offers and just loved Waddle that much. Regardless, it didn't happen. I'll factor this into my evaluation of Grier, and if Waddle pans out we'll obviously let this slide into the ether without marking Grier down for it. But, obviously, everyone will be watching the careers of Chase and Pitts and if they fulfill their potential, Grier will be graded harshly. And if someone between #7 and #12 turns out to be an elite star, again, Grier will be judged harshly. But at the end of the day, I would have traded back from #3 to #6 and made those two trades ... so I can't be too harsh on Grier no matter what. he could have picked Smith ... but I have my reservations about his weight too, so I get why he didn't. We can't judge people on what might have been. We can only judge them on what our decision would have been and what they actually did. We know that Tunsil is a good player ... but we traded him for what became several players, including Jalen Waddle .. and ultimately that's the only fair comparison we should make.
I'm not 100 percent convinced that Pitts was the target, but I have to think Chase was. Maybe Pitts was, but I just question how Miami would utilize his talent.

As to Watson, I think there's a good chance he would have been traded to SF if not for what transpired with him. The 49ers gave Miami three #1's for a chance at a franchise quarterback. I believe SF would have aggressively pursued a sure thing.

So, in that sense Houston keeps giving!

At the end of the day, Miami ended up with an additional first and third rounder to move down three spots. Although it will be interesting to watch Chase, Pitts and Waddle and how productive they are in the NFL.
 
It is what it is. I wanted to keep all those 1st round picks plus I wanted to get our guy too but things don't always work out that way. After everything that went on, we got a top playmaking WR like I wanted us to do plus we have an extra first round pick and a 3rd tho we already used that one to move up for Eichenberg but without that 3rd we'd have lost out on him.
Good point on Eichenberg. Thought moving up for him was a really smart move. Not sure there was another plug and play tackle.

Also thought Eichenberg had a chance to go late first round.
 
I actually think that if he made no trades, Grier was picking Waddle at 3. So anything at all extra is a win. Don't know if that fact is an indictment of Grier or praise of him. He had Waddle over Chase and Pitts.
Right, just no way to know for certain unless you are on Miami's decision making team.

Could be Waddle was their target.
 
All else being equal, if Philly stays as 6, they take a bama wr. Then the giants at 11 take the other one.

You can't assume miami and dallas strike the same deal as dallas and philly, the conversation could've been completely different
 
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