Did we give up too much for Ricky?
- Thread starter Dolphinfiend
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dolfan87
The Human Bullet
The Bucs BLITZED on every freaking play guys. When you send in 5, 6 and 7 players to rush in on the Qb/RB, what do you expect to happen?
Do you expect our five O-lineman to stop 7 guys?
If it had been a real game, Norv would of said..."ok, you wanna throw your entire defense at the Running game...how about a deep ball to one Chris Chambers who is obviously in single coverage since they are tossing eveyone else in on the blitz."
Ricky is not going to just take the ball and make miracles on every play. Our O line is not going to be able to block 7 blitzing defenders, and we haven't even began to show what we can do on offense.
Slow down a little...let things work themselves out, and please don't jump to conclusions off of one lousy pre-season game.
Man the bad thing is we won't be able to watch any of the rest of the pre-season, as they aren't televised outside of the Miami area.
87
Do you expect our five O-lineman to stop 7 guys?
If it had been a real game, Norv would of said..."ok, you wanna throw your entire defense at the Running game...how about a deep ball to one Chris Chambers who is obviously in single coverage since they are tossing eveyone else in on the blitz."
Ricky is not going to just take the ball and make miracles on every play. Our O line is not going to be able to block 7 blitzing defenders, and we haven't even began to show what we can do on offense.
Slow down a little...let things work themselves out, and please don't jump to conclusions off of one lousy pre-season game.
Man the bad thing is we won't be able to watch any of the rest of the pre-season, as they aren't televised outside of the Miami area.
87
He's very correct..the draft picks we gave up for Ricky are conditional draft pick..If he runs for more than 1500 yds. we give up a 1st rounder.. 1200 , a 2nd rounder..Anything less a 3rd rounder...So no matter what he does we will have a 1st , 2nd and give up our 3rd. or a 1st, 3rd and give up our 2nd or a 2nd , 3rd , and give up our 1st.. It won't be as bad as this year.
inFINSible
Don't believe everything you think.
Faulk is precisely the reason the price for Ricky was so high....If Faulk hadn't made the Colts look like idiots for trading him for a second round pick....our price for Ricky wouldn't have been so high.
What do you think Faulk would fetch now in a trade?
Killah Sith
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We did go for Chambers deep once, but it was overthrown.
Faulk would easily bring 2 first round draft picks, probably 3 from the right team.
Faulk would easily bring 2 first round draft picks, probably 3 from the right team.
VanDolPhan
Practice Squad
Guys as far as I heard they were bringing the house for a preseason game. When you line up all of your linebackers 3 yards of the LOS and one of the safety's is creeping up you know they are serious. However you also saw what will easily happen once Miami gets Turners offense down. When they blitz like that Konrad will be making catches left/right and center and Chris Chambers will get open like he did there about 10 times a game.
If Ricky only comes out and has a brutal day against the Lions.......then start worrying. Until then it's the preseason and no one cares.
If Ricky only comes out and has a brutal day against the Lions.......then start worrying. Until then it's the preseason and no one cares.
i havent watched the game for a second time but from what i remeber we did not run a single misdirection play with ricky. all five runs were very vanilla with TB stacking the box. these fellas were coming with their ears pinned back. i suspect had we thrown in a wrinkle or two things would change pretty quikly. i sure did enjoy watching him square his shoulders though every time to deliver a hit
the other thing that bothers me is why is it that the saints are spending so much of their air time bad mouthing Mr. Williams, not to bust out any child psychology but is it remorse for doing something stupid? jealousy? i figure with all of their unanswered questions they would be dealing with them.........It must be denial.
the other thing that bothers me is why is it that the saints are spending so much of their air time bad mouthing Mr. Williams, not to bust out any child psychology but is it remorse for doing something stupid? jealousy? i figure with all of their unanswered questions they would be dealing with them.........It must be denial.
For all you people that are saying we gave up too much for Ricky, and that he is not worth it, because he is not a "gamebreaker" ...
Did you see the graphic last night where they showed he has had more total yards per game than any running back in the league other than Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James??
That is not bad company to be in... he was even ahead of the Fabled Curtis Martin... so it is not unreasonable that we gave up a first for him and potentially more... We have a proven top-5 back ... and if Fiedler and company execute Turner's offense properly, which will open up more lanes for Ricky to run in... the results will be devastating, for opposing defenses that is.
Did you see the graphic last night where they showed he has had more total yards per game than any running back in the league other than Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James??
That is not bad company to be in... he was even ahead of the Fabled Curtis Martin... so it is not unreasonable that we gave up a first for him and potentially more... We have a proven top-5 back ... and if Fiedler and company execute Turner's offense properly, which will open up more lanes for Ricky to run in... the results will be devastating, for opposing defenses that is.
Dolphinfiend
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not so fast my friend! i have in front of my this years copy of Fantasy Footbal Index. On page 195 they list total yds for rbs per game and ricky williams ranked 8th behind Faulk, Holmes, Alexander, Green, Rhodes, A-Train, and Curtis Martin. You figure Edgerrin James will replace Rhodes, Eddie George is healthy again, so that puts Ricky just inside the top 10. seeing that his longest run from scrimmage in his entire career is 46 YARDS, it is safe to say that he is NOT a gamebreaker. If fred taylor could stay healthy, he would push ricky williams to 10th.
Actually Fred will be the top three if he can stay healthy...I rather have a 'Game Breaker" but I don't mind having a power back who can give us the constant 4-6 yards run....First off I doubt he will reach 1500 yards and if he does that means he had an AWSOME season...I'm thinking about 1200 - 1300 yards range..A first and second for proven back or draft a RB who can be a bust.....I would have taken Ricky any day but the deal for Fred Taylor was more appealing to me.You should be happy we FINALLY have a proven back who still has upside..
dirtywhiteboy
the future
i can't believe anyone's replying to this crap...whoops...fantasy what? fiend, i'm pretty much a pessamist, but you take the cake...a pessamist that knows 3% of everything:D
"With a back like deshawn foster on the board, we could have kept our pick and had one next year and probably gotten the more explosive player. "
---what has he proven in the nfl? more explosive player than ricky? what do you have to back up an un-proven player will be better than a proven player?
"The Rams gave up a freaking 2nd round pick for Marshall Faulk, and we gave up potentially 2 first rounders for Ricky Williams?"
---the question was asked earlier by i think infins..."what do you think faulk would cost now?"
"I was a little more optimistic when i heard the phins were after Fred Taylor a few months ago. Yes, he is more injury prone than Williams, but there is no question he is a much better back than ricky, and would have come at a much cheaper price."
---how is there no question he is a much better back? i think you meant to say "in my opinion..."
"just personally i would have liked to have gone after someone more explosive and not given up picks so valuable."
---like all of the other "valuable" picks that we have gotten in the first round every year?
"maybe ricky will dominate the league this year and make this post mute, but last night was not an encouraging sign at all, not at all"
---did you watch the game at all last night? well, i'm no expert, and never have claimed to be, but in the 5 handoffs to ricky, the defensive side of the ball was so crowded...wait a minute, that's right, it was so crowded that fred taylor is the only one that would have broke a 61 yard run.
" i'm just expanding on what i saw from ricky in new orleans, barely able to avg 4 yds per carry behind a mammoth O-Line. how well is he going to perform behind our line?"
---oh yeah? how often did you watch the saints if you say they had such a superior line? how often were they behind in a game and had to throw the rest of the game, which limited ricky's total stats?
"we could have taken foster this year, and snagged a franchise qb next year in what projects to be the deepest qb class since 83"
---you really have a lot of faith in the "unknown", once again how do you know foster will be any better than john avery, or jjj? and if ricky rushes for 1500 yards, they can have that "franchise" qb because very few of those "franchise" qb's have done sh1t in this league.
"i am just going to be pissed if foster turns out to be better than ricky, and we passed on a top flight qb prospect"
---that is one hell of a prediction!
"The dolphin fan in me is saying that ricky is going to rush for 2000yds but when i try to put my objective hat on, i see ricky putting up comparable numbers to what he did last year. If that is the case, it will arguably be worse than lamar 2 years ago."
---1700+ total yards from the line of scrimmage will be worse than who? lamar had just over 1300 total yards from los in 2000.
"On top of that, i'm not impressed with his physical skills, if you give up a first rounder for a back, you should get a back who is the complete package. Not a plowhorse without gamebreaking speed."
---which preseason saints game did you watch? who's running this offense...you or norv?
"I watched sportscenter the other day and one of the saints assistant coaches said that ricky has better ability than anyone in football to turn a 30yd gain into a 12yd gain. that really left a bitter taste in my mouth and pretty much confirmed my own suspicions from watching him play"
---and listening to a saints assistant coach to confirm your beliefs confirms my belief that you don't watch a lot of football.
"I look at the acquisition as if we are getting lamar from two years ago, but at least we most likely keep our draft pick, that is key"
---again, i really believe you don't watch a lot of football, or maybe you watch it at a strip club...
my point was also proven when you quoted the fantasy mag to shoot down grooves post (which was true by the way)...grooves stat was taken over the last few years, not last year...so go try and get your money back for the fantasy book. wish you were playing in my league:D
***disclaimer*** i did not post this with the intent of pissing anybody off, or hurting anyone's feelings, i promise.
"With a back like deshawn foster on the board, we could have kept our pick and had one next year and probably gotten the more explosive player. "
---what has he proven in the nfl? more explosive player than ricky? what do you have to back up an un-proven player will be better than a proven player?
"The Rams gave up a freaking 2nd round pick for Marshall Faulk, and we gave up potentially 2 first rounders for Ricky Williams?"
---the question was asked earlier by i think infins..."what do you think faulk would cost now?"
"I was a little more optimistic when i heard the phins were after Fred Taylor a few months ago. Yes, he is more injury prone than Williams, but there is no question he is a much better back than ricky, and would have come at a much cheaper price."
---how is there no question he is a much better back? i think you meant to say "in my opinion..."
"just personally i would have liked to have gone after someone more explosive and not given up picks so valuable."
---like all of the other "valuable" picks that we have gotten in the first round every year?
"maybe ricky will dominate the league this year and make this post mute, but last night was not an encouraging sign at all, not at all"
---did you watch the game at all last night? well, i'm no expert, and never have claimed to be, but in the 5 handoffs to ricky, the defensive side of the ball was so crowded...wait a minute, that's right, it was so crowded that fred taylor is the only one that would have broke a 61 yard run.
" i'm just expanding on what i saw from ricky in new orleans, barely able to avg 4 yds per carry behind a mammoth O-Line. how well is he going to perform behind our line?"
---oh yeah? how often did you watch the saints if you say they had such a superior line? how often were they behind in a game and had to throw the rest of the game, which limited ricky's total stats?
"we could have taken foster this year, and snagged a franchise qb next year in what projects to be the deepest qb class since 83"
---you really have a lot of faith in the "unknown", once again how do you know foster will be any better than john avery, or jjj? and if ricky rushes for 1500 yards, they can have that "franchise" qb because very few of those "franchise" qb's have done sh1t in this league.
"i am just going to be pissed if foster turns out to be better than ricky, and we passed on a top flight qb prospect"
---that is one hell of a prediction!
"The dolphin fan in me is saying that ricky is going to rush for 2000yds but when i try to put my objective hat on, i see ricky putting up comparable numbers to what he did last year. If that is the case, it will arguably be worse than lamar 2 years ago."
---1700+ total yards from the line of scrimmage will be worse than who? lamar had just over 1300 total yards from los in 2000.
"On top of that, i'm not impressed with his physical skills, if you give up a first rounder for a back, you should get a back who is the complete package. Not a plowhorse without gamebreaking speed."
---which preseason saints game did you watch? who's running this offense...you or norv?
"I watched sportscenter the other day and one of the saints assistant coaches said that ricky has better ability than anyone in football to turn a 30yd gain into a 12yd gain. that really left a bitter taste in my mouth and pretty much confirmed my own suspicions from watching him play"
---and listening to a saints assistant coach to confirm your beliefs confirms my belief that you don't watch a lot of football.
"I look at the acquisition as if we are getting lamar from two years ago, but at least we most likely keep our draft pick, that is key"
---again, i really believe you don't watch a lot of football, or maybe you watch it at a strip club...
my point was also proven when you quoted the fantasy mag to shoot down grooves post (which was true by the way)...grooves stat was taken over the last few years, not last year...so go try and get your money back for the fantasy book. wish you were playing in my league:D
***disclaimer*** i did not post this with the intent of pissing anybody off, or hurting anyone's feelings, i promise.
Dolphinfiend
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Okay, i will concede many of the points you have made by saying that a lot of those things are based on speculation, speculation that so far appears to be well founded (deshawn looks awesome for carolina), but speculation nontheless. The only point i will argue to the death with you is when you said:
"how is there no question he is a much better back? i think you meant to say "in my opinion..."
Freddy Taylor is unquestionably the the better back between the two. The only reason he isn't held in the same regard as marshall faulk is because he has been injury prone so far in his career..ricky has as well, but no where near fred's fragileness. Fred's career yds per carry avg is 4.4, while Ricky's career yds per carry avg is 3.8. Taylor has had seasons of 17 and 14 Touchdowns, both times in less than 16 games. Ricky Williams in his best year had NINE (9) Touchdowns. Fred Taylor also is more explosive than Ricky in that his 19 longest runs are all longer than ricky williams longest run....seriously, the only knock on freddy is his health, but when both are healthy, without question taylor is better. that is not my opinion, that is fact.
"how is there no question he is a much better back? i think you meant to say "in my opinion..."
Freddy Taylor is unquestionably the the better back between the two. The only reason he isn't held in the same regard as marshall faulk is because he has been injury prone so far in his career..ricky has as well, but no where near fred's fragileness. Fred's career yds per carry avg is 4.4, while Ricky's career yds per carry avg is 3.8. Taylor has had seasons of 17 and 14 Touchdowns, both times in less than 16 games. Ricky Williams in his best year had NINE (9) Touchdowns. Fred Taylor also is more explosive than Ricky in that his 19 longest runs are all longer than ricky williams longest run....seriously, the only knock on freddy is his health, but when both are healthy, without question taylor is better. that is not my opinion, that is fact.
dirtywhiteboy
the future
i think stats do not tell the whole truth. ricky was in a bad situation in no. he is in a better place, with a better o coordinator, his social anxiety disorder has finally been diagnosed (which by the way he was ready to quit football until they diagnosed and started treatment for), and i think he will be a pleasant suprise for all of us phin fans...and perhaps will make you forget all about f taylor!:D