Dolphins' Defense-Contender or Pretender? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins' Defense-Contender or Pretender?

We finished basically in the middle of the pack. Thats after starting at or near the bottom in almost every single important category the first half of the season. So, the second half of the season, when we changed our approach, we were consistently in the upper tier of the league. So the 2nd half of the season we were basically top 5-10 almost every single week. That’s quite a contrast.
My take…we continue to stay with our strengths and what works. Add a couple more pieces. Get better on offense which will also aid in the defenses success. We do that and we should definitely be a consistent top 10 defense.
 
I think it’s a pretender but it’s close. I feel we need at least 1 LB preferably middle (Roberts is a backup), a pass rusher better than any that we have (Ogbah should be the “other guy”) and if they’re banking on Phillips he better deliver. I feel we also need a slot CB, I like Needham but he soured on me in the 2nd Buffalo game. It seemed like we did a nice job in that game until Allen identified Beasley on Needham and it killed us. Between Beasley and MacKenzie we are going to have to be strong there. I also don’t like Brandon Jones in coverage. He has a role but I’d be looking for a better coverage safety to pair with Holland. None of this grows on trees but upgrading Roberts should be relatively easy.
 
The defense had the propensity of producing fun to watch games the past two years, but they also got undressed in a lot of games.

We all know the Lamar Jackson game this year, but were there any other games where a high end QB had any issues moving the ball against us?
 
Honestly, I think that the entire concept of pretender and contender is a flawed concept. I guess the OP expects a contender to be successful regardless of the performance by the offense. I do not know of any defense in the league which meets this level of talent. The OP could be asking if this defense is capable of turning in a good performance versus a playoff team if the offense is complementary. I believe Dolphins defense is constructed with a requirement for complementary play. The defense is light and fast which means some rest Is required. My opinion is that this defense is a contender if there is an offense with a running game. It does not need to be a high powered offense, but it must be capable of establishing a TOP advantage.
 
Doesn't matter in any way now.

That scheme left with Flo.

Better hope someone coming in has a scheme to Maximize the unique talents on that side of the ball or we be fed.
 
Lionstone said:
Honestly, I think that the entire concept of pretender and contender is a flawed concept. I guess the OP expects a contender to be successful regardless of the performance by the offense. I do not know of any defense in the league which meets this level of talent. The OP could be asking if this defense is capable of turning in a good performance versus a playoff team if the offense is complementary. I believe Dolphins defense is constructed with a requirement for complementary play. The defense is light and fast which means some rest Is required. My opinion is that this defense is a contender if there is an offense with a running game. It does not need to be a high powered offense, but it must be capable of establishing a TOP advantage.
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Just trying to get away from the usual subjects for a thread and have some fun.

I think we consistently got exposed by better teams and this are not “deep playoff run” caliber. Thus a pretender.
 
Sirspud said:
You aren't wrong with your information, but one really has to take into account the quality of opponent we were facing when also when we were putting up great numbers. First half of the season we played Allen twice, Carr, Wentz (who can be hot/cold but had a good game against us), Matt Ryan, Tom Brady. These are developed passers who can read the NFL field and who are able to exploit the space left by the blitz. Once we started the zero cover defense again we didn't face one really developed passer there besides Tannehill, and I'm honestly not sure where to put him since he's a pretty good QB these days but his biggest weakness is pressure and he had only one weapon that belonged running pass routes in the league at the time we played him.

You're going to get different results playing Zack Wilson and Ian Book than you are Josh Allen, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, etc. Especially when the only thing you're defense has proved truly adept at doing is playing the type of pressure scheme that dominates lesser QB's and is easily exposed versus good ones.
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Great points. But the fact the defense suffered from the zone scheme halfway through the season is perplexing. I'm pretty sure Miami would've faired better defensively if they'd stayed with their strength, man coverage in the secondary. Not necessarily the zero cover against those QB's who've mentioned. But I agree with you about the seasoned QB's hurting Miami.
 
dolfan91 said:
Great points. But the fact the defense suffered from the zone scheme halfway through the season is perplexing. I'm pretty sure Miami would've faired better defensively if they'd stayed with their strength, man coverage in the secondary. Not necessarily the zero cover against those QB's who've mentioned. But I agree with you about the seasoned QB's hurting Miami.
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I'm going to criticize coaching for losing games to bad opponents in the early stretch, but since I've well outlined the limitations of our cover 0 defense I don't blame the staff gor at least trying to find a play style that had more chance to work against an opponent of worth.
 
Compared to what? The defenses that made the playoffs? If so, Give me a bring with this Cr$%
 
I would say we are on the verge of contender but we need another LB. Lot of needs on offense, so getting the LB would be tricky.

The data about good teams vs bad teams is interesting and perhaps partially true. But the team played better teams in the first half and so it skews the data.

In the second half of the year, Holland emerged, Van Ginkel came out of his slumber, Baker was elite, Davis returned, and Phillips was used more effectively, not to mention the scheming was better by an order of magnitude.
 
Even some of the most elite D's wilt over when there is no support from the offense.

It's been decades since Miami has had a team that played well on both sides of the ball. Even when we had 8 guys go to the pro bowl - 7 on D and ricky on O, we were never really a MAJOR threat because our O was still pretty putrid.

Get an offense that can put up some points, that can allow the team to actually play with a lead some times, and you'll see even better results from the D.
 
NBP81 said:
The defense, as is, would benefit a ****load from a good offense... If you're using it to win games by it self, it simply requires way to much risk to yield a robust output. Put that D in a situation where its playing with a lead quite often while coaching it accordingly, the results might surprise you.
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Nice post, spot on.
 
To simplify the argument, let's focus on the Bills 2nd game
- we got pressure for 1 half with cover 0, but they solved us 2nd half
- nik needham cannot cover cole beasley, he picked us apart

To counter this without spending crazy resources, I think our best hopes:
- JP big step in pass rush to reduce our need to blitz
- sad to say but we might have to upgrade needham just to counter the Bills and push needham to corner 4

In addition I think we need an everydown MLB, upper-tier player that can do it all. Bills don't have a dom run game but teams that do have gashed us.
At that point, when healthy we are elite
 
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