Dolphins six-pack: Dieter gets a look at center

[Mach2]

Agree, I was answering the question. I think we all care who ends up starting some what? Do you want to see rosen start over Tua or Fitzpatrick? Or who cares

If, for some unimaginable reason, he is the best QB on the roster, why not?

What difference does the name on the jersey make? I want tge best players on the field, irrespective of draft position, salary, etc.

Wouldn't it be kind of foolish to do anything else?

 

[Digital]

If Karras isnt a significant upgrade over Dieter this may be a long year for us. From my understanding Karras is an underrated prospect that could flourish with playing time. I have never heard anything remotely similar said about Dieter. That said I just want atleast one of them to be good.

The exact same thing can be said for Robert Hunt over Danny Isadora and Austin Jackson over Julie'n Davenport. I see no reason to believe that we will have a good OL in 2020. Jesse Davis at OT, Ereck Flowers at OG, and Ted Karras at OC/OG are the three best OL we have ... and that's assuming they all stay healthy and played in their proper slots. We drafted projects, not plug-and-play guys.

IMHO, it looks like we're grooming this team for 2021, with OL that will take a year to develop and a QB who might not get as much playing time as the fanbase wants. But 2021 will be the year we need to start winning and all these tanked draft picks need to start paying off.

 

[BennySwella]

The exact same thing can be said for Robert Hunt over Danny Isadora and Austin Jackson over Julie'n Davenport. I see no reason to believe that we will have a good OL in 2020. Jesse Davis at OT, Ereck Flowers at OG, and Ted Karras at OC/OG are the three best OL we have ... and that's assuming they all stay healthy and played in their proper slots. We drafted projects, not plug-and-play guys.

IMHO, it looks like we're grooming this team for 2021, with OL that will take a year to develop and a QB who might not get as much playing time as the fanbase wants. But 2021 will be the year we need to start winning and all these tanked draft picks need to start paying off.

If that is the case then we will need to draft/sign just as many olineman next year as we did this year. We need to sign proven olineman instead of projects or we may never correct our protection issues.

 

[BSQ]

There is no way to know how these o-line rookies will develop. You can't just rip the whole draft class by saying we didn't draft plug and play guys. We just don't know who will step up and how quickly but no pre-season isn't going to help with cohesion which is so important. Snaps together as a unit is critical to development. It's a very young line with almost all new parts so patience will be required.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Miami needs to do what they can to secure Creed Humphrey next draft.

 

[Phinatic8u]

If that is the case then we will need to draft/sign just as many olineman next year as we did this year. We need to sign proven olineman instead of projects or we may never correct our protection issues.

OL is by far the hardest position group to draft. Seems more and more likely that they'll bust instead of flourish.

 

[BennySwella]

OL is by far the hardest position group to draft. Seems more and more likely that they'll bust instead of flourish.

It seems you are right since we cant seem to find any good ones the last few decades. Which to me makes it that more important that we sign proven free agents than to try to beat the odds by trying to draft them.

 

[Digital]

If that is the case then we will need to draft/sign just as many olineman next year as we did this year. We need to sign proven olineman instead of projects or we may never correct our protection issues.

Well the Dolphins have an abysmal track record really. Almost none of our draft picks are good enough except the 1st rounders, and they always get injured and have bloated contracts. We have brought in many solid to good veterans, and they almost always get injured and are unable to compete. For whatever reason ... we appear to be snake-bit at acquiring OL.

IMHO, our strategy is wrong. We always draft guys with high ceilings and low floors ... and it never works out. We either get the low floor aspect, or when they blossom we cannot afford them. So we draft these raw athletes, polish them into gems, and then when they get fairly decent they leave for money we cannot afford to pay. When we hired Coach Flo I was seriously hoping we had adopted the extremely clever Patriots system for OL.

The Patriots look for guys with high floors and low ceilings. Sure, they sometimes go after someone with a higher ceiling, but usually not. They flood their roster with lots of good technique grinders who can be solid/average OL, but never good. Those guys don't have many other options, so they sign and re-sign for pennies, making the Patriot OL very affordable. Because they're good technicians, they don't make many mistakes and have consistent play. The backups are almost as good as the starters, so there's minimal dropoff in play when someone gets hurt. But because they keep re-signing, the OL develops chemistry. They find guys who can both run block and pass protect, and since they're not looking for the guy with phenomenal agility and arm length, they can find plenty of technicians who can do both and do it inexpensively.

Well, the only OL they drafted was Deiter ... and he is durable, but he hasn't proven his worth so far. Then in the 2020 draft, they went back to being the Dolphins again, developing gems for other teams. I have almost no hope for our OL through the draft if we keep this up. Even if we get a gem, we'll never re-sign him before his contract is up, nor will we ever match his FA top offer. So best case scenario, someone is instantly good ad we get 4 years out of him. More likley, he'll be subpar for 3 y ears and then blow up in the final year of his rookie contract, and we'll lose him in FA.

While I'd love to say our FA acquisitions have been better, but those guys seem to be good, but almost all of them miss lots of games through injuries. Brandon Albert was probably the best FA signing we made, and he missed time too.

At the end of the day, our philosophy on scouting OL needs to change, because we keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

The exact same thing can be said for Robert Hunt over Danny Isadora and Austin Jackson over Julie'n Davenport. I see no reason to believe that we will have a good OL in 2020. Jesse Davis at OT, Ereck Flowers at OG, and Ted Karras at OC/OG are the three best OL we have ... and that's assuming they all stay healthy and played in their proper slots. We drafted projects, not plug-and-play guys.

IMHO, it looks like we're grooming this team for 2021, with OL that will take a year to develop and a QB who might not get as much playing time as the fanbase wants. But 2021 will be the year we need to start winning and all these tanked draft picks need to start paying off.

Miami may have to dive back in and draft an offensive lineman early. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Jackson and Hunt need to nail down positions.

 

[Mach2]

At the end of the day, our philosophy on scouting OL needs to change, because we keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

Part of that may be evaluation, and part may be philosophy.

In any case we brought in new ppl on the eval side, and I'm sure Flo's philosophy is prominent now, so I would have to say the past is not, necessarily, indicative of the present.

Fingers crossed.....

 

[Digital]

Miami may have to dive back in and draft an offensive lineman early. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Jackson and Hunt need to nail down positions.

I agree 100%.

When you are building a young team and stockpiled lots of draft picks, I see no real reason not to draft multiple OL each year. We made a mistake not drafting 2 OL in 2019, IMHO. While I'm on record many times being frustrated by our ridiculously bad philosophy for drafting OL that almost guarantees that we never keep OL chemistry, that is no reason to stop drafting them. We need to draft multiple OL in 2021. When you draft projects, there's no way they all work out. When you draft low ceiling guys, there is no way they all work out. When you need 5 starters and at least 2 subs every year, there's just no excuse for not drafting at least 1 OL each year.

I have high hopes for Austin Jackson. IMHO, he is an elite prospect 2021 draft choice that came out a year too early and his draft status fell, which is why we drafted him late in round 1 of 2020. Had he stayed in school and not played this year at all, he would have probably been a top 10 pick in 2021. But, physically he is not ready yet. Nor is he ready experience-wise. And his technique is very spotty and raw in places. He needs the reps to become the player his athleticism makes possible, because right now he isn't that player. I can see Jackson not starting in 2020.

Hunt is physically ready. If he gets the technique down he can play right away. But, being a small school guy, the jump in speed will be shockingly tough. He will have to learn the technique on the fly because the kid is raw. Then he'll have to master it, then he'll have to instantly process what he sees decide how to act and make that action instantly 10+ times per play. For him it will be a question of when/if he can learn that much, change how he plays the game that much, and be instantaneous processing that information and making those decisions each play. He has the explosion, power, and size to do what is asked ... but he simply has not done it before and does not know what to do.

It's like coming into your first day of high school and realizing they're putting you into advanced applied mathematics. In the 3 summer months you need to learn Pre-Algebra, Algebra, Trig, Pre-Calculus, Calculus, and Statistics. At the end of those 3 months you will be expected to have mastered all of those and be put on a speed test to see how many questions you can answer out of 100 in 20 minutes and measured against a class of Mathematics PhD's. Can you learn it all? Yes. But that's a LOT of new stuff to learn in a short period of time. Can you mater all that? Maybe, but it will definitely take time. Can you prove you're better than all those other PhD's the NFL is pitting against you? Hard to accomplish, but not impossible.

I would not consider him a bust if the answer is no in 2020. Most people on this board seem to think it's a given that he will master all that. Very few small school guys can make that jump in 1 year. It really is asking a lot of the player. Many never can make that jump, because the competition is razor sharp and projecting someone learning that much is just that ... a projection.

IMHO, we need to give these OL draft picks time to adjust, time to grow, and time to become the players they can be. None of them is plug and play, no matter what Daniel Jeremiah says.

 

[Digital]

Part of that may be evaluation, and part may be philosophy.

In any case we brought in new ppl on the eval side, and I'm sure Flo's philosophy is prominent now, so I would have to say the past is not, necessarily, indicative of the present.

Fingers crossed.....

Fingers crossed indeed.

In year 1 (2019) we saw a stark change in philosophy drafting Deiter, he prioritized power and we thought was more of a low ceiling and high floor guy. This pick resembled the Patriots picks. But, he only drafted 1 guy, which was not enough and I said so many times. I was hoping for 3 OL draftees.

In year 2 (2020) we saw what appears to be a direct reversion to the old strategy of drafting prototype athletes with high ceiling low floor and raw techniques. That was classic Dolphins draft strategy. It has led to disaster for decades. The one change, and something with which I agree, is we're finally putting some value on power. But, it appears we're still looking to draft a bunch of longshot All-Pro's along the OL. Even if that were successful, we could never sign all of those guys long-term so we will not build chemistry along the OL.

I fear all we've really done is abandon the philosophy change after 1 draft pick (Deiter) and slipped back to the comfortable failure of the old Dolphins Drafting Philosophy.

 

[Mach2]

Fingers crossed indeed.

In year 1 (2019) we saw a stark change in philosophy drafting Deiter, he prioritized power and we thought was more of a low ceiling and high floor guy. This pick resembled the Patriots picks. But, he only drafted 1 guy, which was not enough and I said so many times. I was hoping for 3 OL draftees.

In year 2 (2020) we saw what appears to be a direct reversion to the old strategy of drafting prototype athletes with high ceiling low floor and raw techniques. That was classic Dolphins draft strategy. It has led to disaster for decades. The one change, and something with which I agree, is we're finally putting some value on power. But, it appears we're still looking to draft a bunch of longshot All-Pro's along the OL. Even if that were successful, we could never sign all of those guys long-term so we will not build chemistry along the OL.

I fear all we've really done is abandon the philosophy change after 1 draft pick (Deiter) and slipped back to the comfortable failure of the old Dolphins Drafting Philosophy.

Well, to be fair, when we drafted Dieter, we still had Tunsil to anchor the line. Who knew Houston would go full retard?

You can make a valid arguement that we could have gone O-line instead if Wilkins, and kept our original 2nd rd pick as well.

I'm not disappointed in the guys we drafted this year, but only time will tell.

 

[uk_dolfan]

Trying bad OL players at various positions has been a common Dolphins move for quite a while now

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I agree 100%.

When you are building a young team and stockpiled lots of draft picks, I see no real reason not to draft multiple OL each year. We made a mistake not drafting 2 OL in 2019, IMHO. While I'm on record many times being frustrated by our ridiculously bad philosophy for drafting OL that almost guarantees that we never keep OL chemistry, that is no reason to stop drafting them. We need to draft multiple OL in 2021. When you draft projects, there's no way they all work out. When you draft low ceiling guys, there is no way they all work out. When you need 5 starters and at least 2 subs every year, there's just no excuse for not drafting at least 1 OL each year.

I have high hopes for Austin Jackson. IMHO, he is an elite prospect 2021 draft choice that came out a year too early and his draft status fell, which is why we drafted him late in round 1 of 2020. Had he stayed in school and not played this year at all, he would have probably been a top 10 pick in 2021. But, physically he is not ready yet. Nor is he ready experience-wise. And his technique is very spotty and raw in places. He needs the reps to become the player his athleticism makes possible, because right now he isn't that player. I can see Jackson not starting in 2020.

Hunt is physically ready. If he gets the technique down he can play right away. But, being a small school guy, the jump in speed will be shockingly tough. He will have to learn the technique on the fly because the kid is raw. Then he'll have to master it, then he'll have to instantly process what he sees decide how to act and make that action instantly 10+ times per play. For him it will be a question of when/if he can learn that much, change how he plays the game that much, and be instantaneous processing that information and making those decisions each play. He has the explosion, power, and size to do what is asked ... but he simply has not done it before and does not know what to do.

It's like coming into your first day of high school and realizing they're putting you into advanced applied mathematics. In the 3 summer months you need to learn Pre-Algebra, Algebra, Trig, Pre-Calculus, Calculus, and Statistics. At the end of those 3 months you will be expected to have mastered all of those and be put on a speed test to see how many questions you can answer out of 100 in 20 minutes and measured against a class of Mathematics PhD's. Can you learn it all? Yes. But that's a LOT of new stuff to learn in a short period of time. Can you mater all that? Maybe, but it will definitely take time. Can you prove you're better than all those other PhD's the NFL is pitting against you? Hard to accomplish, but not impossible.

I would not consider him a bust if the answer is no in 2020. Most people on this board seem to think it's a given that he will master all that. Very few small school guys can make that jump in 1 year. It really is asking a lot of the player. Many never can make that jump, because the competition is razor sharp and projecting someone learning that much is just that ... a projection.

IMHO, we need to give these OL draft picks time to adjust, time to grow, and time to become the players they can be. None of them is plug and play, no matter what Daniel Jeremiah says.

Agree. In fact, that's why I'm okay if Tua sits longer than expected. Like everyone else, I want to see him play but the offensive line will go through growing pains. I do expect that Jackson will beat out Davenport, but I do think we'll see some early struggles. I'm not sure Hunt ends up at RT or RG, but that position needs to be strong with Tua a lefty. Perhaps Jackson eventually ends up at RT as you have suggested.

I'd still concentrate on building both lines in the upcoming draft. That's where teams win and Miami isn't there on either unit yet. Progress for sure, but I'm hoping for close to dominant in the trenches. The good news is it looks like a strong upcoming draft for offensive linemen.