Dolphins Tanking? Is This A 1st? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins Tanking? Is This A 1st?

Even those JT/ZT teams got killed if they made the playoffs. Sure they had a little regular season success but the end result was always the same.
That’s not true, during the mid 90’s through 2001 we made the wildcard 3 times and the second round 4 times.
 
Suppose we sign someone like Mike Glennon to QB and we win two of our first three games, do they bench him? Suppose Flores is a really good coach (like we hope) and he squeezes 5-6 wins out of a lousy squad?

Just as in the past we have pinned our hopes on too many things going right, this time we may be counting on too many things going wrong...
5 wins could garner a top 4/5 pick. That should, somehow, get us the QB we target, even if we need to move up a few spots to #2, or so.

That brings up an interesting question. How many wins do people want to see, realistically?

The QB position will likely dictate the record. Our D could be quite a bit better next year. Our points/yds allowed can't be worse IMO.
 
Even those JT/ZT teams got killed if they made the playoffs. Sure they had a little regular season success but the end result was always the same.
True, grinding Ricky Williams into a nub never kept him fresh for the playoffs. That defense was built to play in short bursts and stop the pass late, so being behind, keeping the defense on the field most of the game … we just couldn't hold up on either side of the ball. Those teams just didn't have enough quality throughout the roster and Wannstedt just never understood that we shouldn't be playing for the regular season, we needed to build and pace our team for the playoffs.
 
Instead of actually trying to lose on purpose which tanking implies, it makes a lot more sense to try and use this year's draft to acquire the asset's necessary to get into position in 2020 to get the guy they want.

It's a lot more likely we would trade up to No.1 then actually land the No.1 pick outright next year.

I've said it a few times already, you have 3 potential All-Pro's on your roster in X, LT and Minkah. You'd have to trade Albert Wilson, Jakeem Grant and Kenyan Drake, release Kenny Stills as well because those guys like to score TD's. What if Mike Gesicki bulks up and becomes a threat in year 2, do you keep him off the field?

If you think "tanking" is going to go smoothly, I hate to burst your bubble. The roster isn't as depleted as is needed to execute a tank.

Again, use your 2019 draft capital to put yourself in the position to do whatever you need to in 2020.

We can easily trade down to 28-34 range and acquire an interior OL and a 2020 first.

If Foles goes to Denver, Murray/Haskins go to Jax/NYG......your competing with the Redskins for the top QB in 2020.

I am not convinced the Giants aren't eyeing 2020 as well to get their QB.
 
So after the tank we are going to draft an entire team in one draft plus a superstar qb ready to start day 1 plus have the few stars we currently have all make thru healthy and there contracts extended all at the same time and none of our coaches swiped or quit.
 
5 wins could garner a top 4/5 pick. That should, somehow, get us the QB we target, even if we need to move up a few spots to #2, or so.

That brings up an interesting question. How many wins do people want to see, realistically?

The QB position will likely dictate the record. Our D could be quite a bit better next year. Our points/yds allowed can't be worse IMO.
I recall the last time we were looking for a QB, it was the 2011 season. We went 0-7 and looked squarely in the lead of the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes. But we had Matt Moore as QB, and while he's not great, he certainly was better than we needed that season, winning 6 of the last 9 to go 6-10 and drop us to the 8th overall pick. We selected Ryan Tannehill, the 3rd QB drafted that year, with Andrew Luck going to the team that sucked best, RGIII was the consolation prize to the almost-tankers, and we had third choice. Later in that draft the Seahawks drafted an undersized kid who was replaced his senior season and had to transfer to another conference, who as also a big time baseball prospect. Yeah, that guy was Russell Wilson.

While Luck didn't work out as well as we expected when he was such a phenomenal QB prospect, it was only because of injuries. The talent has proven very good.

I'm hoping we don't take any chances tanking this time. I'm hoping we win like 1 or 2 games, no more, because I'm confident there will be teams tanking this and the next season because the 2020 and 2021 drafts will have very good QB prospects, and we need one. I'm hoping we get ours in 2020.
 
Just playing devil's advocate-
Has anyone seen any word from the coach on this? None of the new coaching staff is in the building yet and Amando has loudly proclaimed he knows the new direction of the team?
I saw that Ross reassured candidates that he didn't expect winning right away but that doesn't automatically mean tank. I saw the quotes about "everyone I talk to says tank" but who exactly is talking? Grier seems tight-lipped. Could it be coming from scouting department? They wouldn't mind a tank job that nets high picks, for sure.
I'm just wondering if it's more of a cut-the-fat-and-build-from-scratch thing that has been blown up by inflated journalistic egos into "Dolphins will intentionally lose".
 
Tanking is rare in the NFL, 'true' tanking is more prevalent in other sports, it's just lazily and sloppily used in the NFL as either an excuse for sucking or for a team who are perceived not to have tried as hard or spent as much as they could to put the best team out (usually when there's a decent QB option/class coming up and the media want a narrative to lean on). "Why are they going into the season with Josh McCown starting? Oh, they must be tanking for X".

The Colts didn't really tank, and the Browns haven't been tanking for three decades - over the last three years they've been working to a plan to make short-term decisions that eschewed instant success in order to stockpile as many draft picks as possible, the other 27 years they were just badly managed, badly coached and drafted badly. And where has the last three years got them? In a position where they have a good core of young skill players on cheap rookie contracts and a lot of cap space. I assume this is what Stephen Ross is aiming towards.

Is it a risk? Yes, because it still relies on the front office drafting and keeping the right players on the right contracts. Will it give us or the Browns a base to succeed as a solid playoff-bound team for the next decade? Who knows, but what we've been doing for the last 15 years hasn't achieved that either.

And a portion of that is luck. The risk is tanking to get the next Bortles The goal is the process. No elite FAs. No expensive contracts. No bottom decile players on the roster
 
And a portion of that is luck. The risk is tanking to get the next Bortles The goal is the process. No elite FAs. No expensive contracts. No bottom decile players on the roster
I agree there is some "luck" involved when going all in on an individual QB. The rest of the team is more about effective scouting. You need to draft well overall, but perhaps more importantly, you can't have huge rds 1-2 disappointments. Almost every top 15 pick should be a day one starter.
 
Tom Brady is nearing the end. ...

This is more indicative of the franchise's bigger problem than anything else: Accepting Mediocrity.

We have been waiting for Brady to retire. We have been waiting for BB to retire. We have been waiting for Marino's replacement.

Winning is not an entitlement.

Instead of waiting for Brady to retire, why don't we make Brady retire?

Instead of waiting to win, why don't we build a winner and go beat everyone?

Reggie Bush spelled it out, "there is no accountability".

That doesn't mean there is a hall monitor walking around the building asking for hall passes. That means there is no leader in the building with the vision, determination, knowledge, drive and excellence to demand winning football from the rest of the organization.

Different organizations need different components to win. Quite frankly, we are in need of a stern, no BS leader who can weed out everyone except those committed and dedicated to us winning.

We need an authoritarian leader. Because the entire franchise has not attempted to reach for its true potential. They need to be pushed to their limits, demanded to ask more of themselves and willing to not accept less than the pain they will endure reaching for something they've never accomplished before.

Every message gets old. But there is a time and place for each message and leader.

We need a leader who walks into a room and everyone listens because they accept they don't know how to win and it is time to learn.
 
This team was tanked during the Cameroon year. Almost 0-16. It isn't new to us.
Frankly, the mindset this owner/Team has now, I expect to lose every game next season.
This franchise isn't the Dolphins anymore and hasn't been for quite a while.
 
The easiest way to do this without even having to try is to play hot garbage at qb.

They role with Fales or falk odds are damn good your tank aspirations will come to fruition.

There’s no easier path than have a qb stink up the joint.

Whether or not you have the fortune to land the #1 overall pick however is another matter.
 
Instead of actually trying to lose on purpose which tanking implies, it makes a lot more sense to try and use this year's draft to acquire the asset's necessary to get into position in 2020 to get the guy they want.

It's a lot more likely we would trade up to No.1 then actually land the No.1 pick outright next year.

I've said it a few times already, you have 3 potential All-Pro's on your roster in X, LT and Minkah. You'd have to trade Albert Wilson, Jakeem Grant and Kenyan Drake, release Kenny Stills as well because those guys like to score TD's. What if Mike Gesicki bulks up and becomes a threat in year 2, do you keep him off the field?

If you think "tanking" is going to go smoothly, I hate to burst your bubble. The roster isn't as depleted as is needed to execute a tank.

Again, use your 2019 draft capital to put yourself in the position to do whatever you need to in 2020.

We can easily trade down to 28-34 range and acquire an interior OL and a 2020 first.

If Foles goes to Denver, Murray/Haskins go to Jax/NYG......your competing with the Redskins for the top QB in 2020.

I am not convinced the Giants aren't eyeing 2020 as well to get their QB.


No doubt there will be plenty of other teams vying for qbs in the next few years. So we gonna have plenty of competition for it.
 
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