Dolphins Worked Out Kyler Murray.

fin415

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Incorrect, there was nothing particularly special about Philly, they were picking #13 like we are. They came out of Chip Kelly era who was known as a great demolitioner.

They DID just commit to FULL REBUILD. They THREW AWAY both players and picks to get to #2, and get a NEW QB. And they also got a NEW DC. That is a Full Rebuild, they were redoing the QB and the defense, just like we are doing.
They JUST DID IT.

And that's what we need, someone who get things done at the GM spot.
So, to be clear, your definition of "Full Rebuild" is they "THREW AWAY both players".....

I'm going to suggest in a team sport, where on any given game day you have to come up with 45 players and where there are a bunch more under contract waiting for their turn to play, that "throwing away" 2 players doesn't come anywhere close to the definition of "Full Rebuild". And changing a D coordinator seems like any random Wednesday -- it happens all the time. In fact, "throwing away" both players looks like any given FA period and day-to-day business as usual.

And you still haven't addressed my and a bunch of other posters comments on how your strategy for rebuilding works when you spend between 1 to 3 years of high draft picks and that vitally important asset -- franchise QB -- is getting hammered every game because he doesn't have an OL to protect him? We've all seen this movie multiple times... most recently we murdered any possibility of our last QB working out (not saying he was going to end up being the next Tom Brady, but whatever top line potential he had was lost to PTSD).
 

LargoFin

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When Philly won the Super Bowl, 6 of their 9 players on the trenches were drafted by them in Round 1 or 2..

IN 2015 EAGLES (They were switching from 34 to Schwartz 43 after this year just like us)

OFFENSIVE LINE

G Josh Andrews (Undrafted, 2014, journeyman)
G Allen Barbre (4th rd 2007, currently unemployed)
C Barrett Jones (5th round 2013, unemployed)
C Jason Kelce (6th round, 2011)
T Lane Johnson (1st rd, 2013)
T Jason Peters (Undrafted 2004, FA acq.2009)
T Tanner Hawkinson (5th round, 2013, unemployed)
T Dennis Kelly (5th rd 2012, unemployed)
T Mike Tobin (undrafted 2013, journeyman)


DEFENSIVE TACKLES

NT Beau Allen (7th rd, 2014)
DE Brandon Bair (undrafted 2011, unemployed)
DE Fletcher Cox (1st rd 2012)
DE Vinny Curry (2nd rd 2012)
DE Taylor Hart (5th rd 201)
DE Cedric Thompson (5th rd 2015)


LINEBACKERS

ILB Kiko Alonso (2nd rd 2013)
ILB Najeh Goode (5th rd 2012, fa acq)
ILB DeMeco Ryans (2d rd 2006, fa acq)
OLB Connor Barwin (2d rd 2009, fa acq)
OLB Bryan BRaman (undrafted 2011, fa acq)
OLB Brandon Graham (1st rd 2010)
OLB Mychal Kendricks (2nd rd 2012)
OLB Steven Means (5th rd 2013, fa acq)
OLB Marcus Smith (1st rd 2014)


Not to mention, nothing exceptional about it

QB: Bradford, Sanchez, Thad Lewis
RB: Barner, Ryan Matthews, Murray, Sproles
WR: Agholor, Ajirotutu, Riley Cooper, Huff, Krause, Jordan Matthews

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Philadelphia_Eagles_season




TO REBUILD:

You go get the QB first, and get the best DC! And you get it done now! Not 5 years from now! It is not a process, it's a now business.
Miami last season had 6 first rounders in the trenches: James Tunsil, Quinn, Harris, Hood, Williams! Eagles had 4 in 2015 season, before going into the rebuild.

If that is not good enough, FIRE THE GM who got it done and get someone who gets it and gets sht done!!
 

Kdawg954

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IN 2015 EAGLES (They were switching from 34 to Schwartz 43 after this year just like us)

OFFENSIVE LINE

G Josh Andrews (Undrafted, 2014, journeyman)
G Allen Barbre (4th rd 2007, currently unemployed)
C Barrett Jones (5th round 2013, unemployed)
C Jason Kelce (6th round, 2011)
T Lane Johnson (1st rd, 2013)
T Jason Peters (Undrafted 2004, FA acq.2009)
T Tanner Hawkinson (5th round, 2013, unemployed)
T Dennis Kelly (5th rd 2012, unemployed)
T Mike Tobin (undrafted 2013, journeyman)


DEFENSIVE TACKLES

NT Beau Allen (7th rd, 2014)
DE Brandon Bair (undrafted 2011, unemployed)
DE Fletcher Cox (1st rd 2012)
DE Vinny Curry (2nd rd 2012)
DE Taylor Hart (5th rd 201)
DE Cedric Thompson (5th rd 2015)


LINEBACKERS

ILB Kiko Alonso (2nd rd 2013)
ILB Najeh Goode (5th rd 2012, fa acq)
ILB DeMeco Ryans (2d rd 2006, fa acq)
OLB Connor Barwin (2d rd 2009, fa acq)
OLB Bryan BRaman (undrafted 2011, fa acq)
OLB Brandon Graham (1st rd 2010)
OLB Mychal Kendricks (2nd rd 2012)
OLB Steven Means (5th rd 2013, fa acq)
OLB Marcus Smith (1st rd 2014)


Not to mention, nothing exceptional about it

QB: Bradford, Sanchez, Thad Lewis
RB: Barner, Ryan Matthews, Murray, Sproles
WR: Agholor, Ajirotutu, Riley Cooper, Huff, Krause, Jordan Matthews

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Philadelphia_Eagles_season




TO REBUILD:

You go get the QB first, and get the best DC! And you get it done now! Not 5 years from now! It is not a process, it's a now business.
Miami last season had 6 first rounders in the trenches: James Tunsil, Quinn, Harris, Hood, Williams! Eagles had 4 in 2015 season, before going into the rebuild.

If that is not good enough, FIRE THE GM who got it done and get someone who gets it and gets sht done!!
Who said 5 years from now get your QB. You are getting over excited and defensive and saying things nobody here has said.

2017 drafted Philadelphia Eagles (drafted by Philly)

Carson Wentz - 1st (2016)
Lane Johnson - 1st (2013)
Zach Ertz - 2nd (2013)
Nelson Aglahor - 1st (2015)
Jason Kelce - 6th (2011)
Vinny Curry - 2nd (2012)
Fletcher Cox - 1st (2012)
Brandon Graham - 1st (2010)
Mychal Kendricks - 2nd (2012)
Haulapoulivatti Vaitai - 5th (2016)
Derek Barnett - 1st (2017)

These are your starters from that team

11 of 22 guys drafted by the Eagles . . .8 of which were there befor Wentz and of those 8 . . 7 of them were drafted in round 1 or 2.

The heart front 7 and OL was built from 2010 to 2013 . . . And they got their QB 3 drafts later.

Don’t spit this stuff about they had the QB and then built around him. It just isn’t true.
 

LargoFin

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There is no difference man!

We had in 2018: Tunsil, James, Parker, Gesicki, Harris, McMillan, Phillips. 7 of them were drafted in 1st and 2nd round!!! Just like you say for the Eagles. In addition, there is Howard, there is Minkah.

No, they got their quarterback THE FIRST OFFSEASON OF THE REBUILD!!!!! And they traded Kiko and Maxwell, and 2 firsts, and 1 second, and 1 third.
They got their DC THE FIRST OFFSEASON OF THE REBUILD!
NOW, it has to be done for the rebuild. There is no maybe we can do like this, maybe we can do like that, there is millions of ways to clean the fish.

They did not give two fks about what they need on roster other than the QB.
And they did not give two fks about which QB it was, Goff or Wentz, they just needed a QB!


That is called doing your job, getting sht done, now. Not sellling the future and fanning your arse in the meantime, doing nothing for the rebuild.
Rebuild is about the Qb, and the DC, it is not about the roster. The roster gets churned every year.
 
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Eesti

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Considering the lack of attention paid to the OL this year, I would have a hard time believing that Miami is drafting a QB this year. He would get killed. Unless they are rolling with Tannehill which is also puzzling. Top two QB's have one season of experience so....

That being said, they must have something up their sleeve by paying the bonus to Quinn. Maybe a draft day trade up with Quinn involved? Why else would they pay it unless they had at least a tentative agreement?
 

NBP81

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Considering the lack of attention paid to the OL this year, I would have a hard time believing that Miami is drafting a QB this year. He would get killed. Unless they are rolling with Tannehill which is also puzzling. Top two QB's have one season of experience so....

That being said, they must have something up their sleeve by paying the bonus to Quinn. Maybe a draft day trade up with Quinn involved? Why else would they pay it unless they had at least a tentative agreement?
Maybe they just want to keep him... That's what makes the most sense right now...
 

fin415

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There is no difference man!

No, they got their quarterback THE FIRST OFFSEASON OF THE REBUILD!!!!! And they traded Kiko and Maxwell, and 2 firsts, and 1 second, and 1 third.
They got their DC THE FIRST OFFSEASON OF THE REBUILD!
NOW, it has to be done for the rebuild. There is no maybe we can do like this, maybe we can do like that, there is millions of ways to clean the fish.
Let's try this another way.

Question #1: We draft Murray and likely give up our 2019 1, 2 draft picks and some combination of more picks from 2019 and/or some from 2020. We know that between players that didn't work out (a.k.a. suck) and the amount of roster churn that comes with a new HC, we've got a bunch of new players to find in order to even get to 45 people wearing our uniform on game day. Even better, at least 3, possibly 4 of those missing players are on the OL!

How do we do that before the odds of an injury hits our high value and almost unique asset called a Franchise QB????

Question #2: If Murray doesn't turn out to be a NFL franchise QB or one of those 300lbs+ DL's catches up with him during that period we're looking for 4 OLs, how long does it take to fix this problem?

We're out of the draft for 2+ years and we've likely had to spend in FA to work around the lack of draft picks, so how long before we're able to reach for the next team savior?

Question #2: No draft pick is a sure thing. KM has some additional risks given his size and his escape hatch of baseball if he ever decides the ground is really hard when you have a 300lbs+ man on top of you.

How are you proposing Miami manage that risk or are you really just saying you don't care: Win now and nothing else matters?
 

FSU Truth

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There is no difference man!

We had in 2018: Tunsil, James, Parker, Gesicki, Harris, McMillan, Phillips. 7 of them were drafted in 1st and 2nd round!!! Just like you say for the Eagles. In addition, there is Howard, there is Minkah.

No, they got their quarterback THE FIRST OFFSEASON OF THE REBUILD!!!!! And they traded Kiko and Maxwell, and 2 firsts, and 1 second, and 1 third.
They got their DC THE FIRST OFFSEASON OF THE REBUILD!
NOW, it has to be done for the rebuild. There is no maybe we can do like this, maybe we can do like that, there is millions of ways to clean the fish.

They did not give two fks about what they need on roster other than the QB.
And they did not give two fks about which QB it was, Goff or Wentz, they just needed a QB!


That is called doing your job, getting sht done, now. Not sellling the future and fanning your arse in the meantime, doing nothing for the rebuild.
Rebuild is about the Qb, and the DC, it is not about the roster. The roster gets churned every year.
 

superphin

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Who said 5 years from now get your QB. You are getting over excited and defensive and saying things nobody here has said.

2017 drafted Philadelphia Eagles (drafted by Philly)

Carson Wentz - 1st (2016)
Lane Johnson - 1st (2013)
Zach Ertz - 2nd (2013)
Nelson Aglahor - 1st (2015)
Jason Kelce - 6th (2011)
Vinny Curry - 2nd (2012)
Fletcher Cox - 1st (2012)
Brandon Graham - 1st (2010)
Mychal Kendricks - 2nd (2012)
Haulapoulivatti Vaitai - 5th (2016)
Derek Barnett - 1st (2017)

These are your starters from that team

11 of 22 guys drafted by the Eagles . . .8 of which were there befor Wentz and of those 8 . . 7 of them were drafted in round 1 or 2.

The heart front 7 and OL was built from 2010 to 2013 . . . And they got their QB 3 drafts later.

Don’t spit this stuff about they had the QB and then built around him. It just isn’t true.
To be fair from 2010-2012 Andy Reid had Mike Vick who in 2010 had just finished the best season of his career and garnered MVP talks. Vick lead the Eagles to a top 10 offense in 2010 and 2011 and than bottomed out in 2012 which lead to Reid getting fired along with Vick.

2013-2015 they had Chip Kelly paired with Nick Foles who in 2013 had one of the best seasons ever by a QB throwing 27 TD's and just 2 INTs and garnered MVP talks. 2013 and 2014 the Eagles go 10-6 and have consecutive top 5 scoring offenses under Chip Kelly. 2015 they trade for Bradford and give up a 2nd/4th along with Nick Foles and proceed to crap out and Kelly gets fired.

Pederson gets hired and unlike his predecessors he chooses his QB via the draft. Andy Reid decided to roll with Vick and Kelly decided to go with the previous regimes 2nd round pick in Foles and than trade a 2nd and 4th for the injury prone Bradford. I'm sure Reid or Kelly could have drafted their guy had they wanted to but decided not to.
 

jazz015

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Have to remember that Gruden loves quarterbacks and likely realizes he can only get so far with Carr. I think the Raiders are actually a team to watch for Haskins at #4.
I mean he loved qbs so much he was rolling with brad Johnson, Chris simms, Brian Griese, tim rattay, Jeff Garcia. So i dont take his word for it just because he cherry picked the top talent on ESPN and watched a couple reels of film. *** that qb guru nonsense
 

LargoFin

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Let's try this another way.

Question #1: We draft Murray and likely give up our 2019 1, 2 draft picks and some combination of more picks from 2019 and/or some from 2020. We know that between players that didn't work out (a.k.a. suck) and the amount of roster churn that comes with a new HC, we've got a bunch of new players to find in order to even get to 45 people wearing our uniform on game day. Even better, at least 3, possibly 4 of those missing players are on the OL!

There is only one job to do and it must get done now. it is called REBUILD.

A full rebuild is when you must do both, switch to a new QB for the new SB window because your current QB's window expired; and you must replace the DC because he wasn't getting it done, ranked low repeatedly throughout the previous window.

You MUST do both, replace the QB, and replace the DC. That is a Full Rebuild. It must get done and get done in a such a way that give you a fair shot at the SB window -- a QB must be elite, and the DC must have track record of great defenses. And you do whatever it takes to get that done, because that is THE JOB to do. There is no other thing to do but rebuild, get the QB and get the DC.

Rest of roster is trivial, drat picks, free agency, it gets done every year, it is not a primary consideration for rebuild or tanking or building. It just something that is part of every day, every month, every year process, and it should always be done well.

When they do not act on a rebuild, and they get rid of 2nd rd DT, 1st round left tackle, starting LG, the only LG. Poking holes. Yeah, there is roster churn, he did it to himself. The question is what the fk are they doing?
The answer is nothing, they are fkn around with fanspeak. They are idiots.

Of course it's a ten year process when you are fkn around!! That's why Chris Grier needs to be fired now. He isn't doing sht!
It's a fkn 100 year process! Until he is fired and we get someone who gets it and gets things done.



Question #2: If Murray doesn't turn out to be a NFL franchise QB or one of those 300lbs+ DL's catches up with him during that period we're looking for 4 OLs, how long does it take to fix this problem?

It takes one year to fix the problem. It is called a rebuild year. If it is only a new QB, it is a partial rebuild. If we are replacing both the QB and the DC, it is a full rebuild. For example, the Chiefs are in a partial rebuild, they fired the DC and got Spagnuolo, and he is 43 coordinator and they were 34.

But back to Murray, you do not have to worry about him, or Haskins or Lock. They are ELITE, and that is all that matters. You get the elite QB. Any one, and it does not have to be a particular one. You get him in, and if he does not get the job done, you move on timely with urgency. They have their window, it's their contract, four years, or three.


How are you proposing Miami manage that risk or are you really just saying you don't care: Win now and nothing else matters?
You let him play. If he gets hurt, you play the back up. If he is lost for career, you get a new QB. It's called REBUILD. You get an elite QB in the draft.
 

fin415

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There is only one job to do and it must get done now. it is called REBUILD.

A full rebuild is when you must do both, switch to a new QB for the new SB window because your current QB's window expired; and you must replace the DC because he wasn't getting it done, ranked low repeatedly throughout the previous window.

You MUST do both, replace the QB, and replace the DC.
I see why I'm disagreeing with you. I -- and I'll bet a major percentage of FH -- don't consider changing the QB and DC in combination the defining conditions of a rebuild. I'm also in violent disagreement with your assumption that any player should be assumed to be elite until after they have played the NFL for a year or two. I'll go even further with Haskins and Lock are more likely than not NOT going to be elite as both have major flaws in their game.

It seems you are throwing out a bunch of assumptions and then gluing them all together without regard for the real world implications of those assumptions. The biggest one is that every year there are elite QB's available to draft and that your favorite pick is a 100% lock to be elite.

As far as I'm concerned, there are 2, maybe 3 elite QB's playing the game today: Brady, Rodgers, and possibly Brees. There are an additional small number of very good QBs, who are all capable of elite play for a couple of games, maybe a season, but they never seem to string together consecutive years of elite play. They also rarely cost you more than a game with bad play. You can build a winning season or 3 with them, but they need some, to a lot, of quality players around them to get to the SB -- which brings you back to having a complete team, which requires drafting well and often.
 

dolpns13

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I'm not sure about this one. He's so small, smaller than Pat White. I have a feeling he's going to get killed in the NFL.
 
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No guarantees about anything in 2020... What if Tua returns to Alabama? What if the Dolphins win too may games? Too many variables... If Kyler falls an the Dolphins love him, they should take him and get a leg up on the rebuilding process.
Totally agree......whilst we may not be in a high powered draft spot this year, the potential for us to grab a hot prospect as Murray seem to be falling in our almost reachable hands.

Compare this situation to last year's crop of hot QBs which on the surface were meant to be a much more elite bunch and more of them. It was also a perfect storm where teams with a high draft pick needed or desired a QB. So far this year a lot of teams either have a highly paid QB addressed via a previous draft or free agency.

Who knows if we get this situation again occurring with other teams next year, say even if we tank and end up drafting at 5 or 6 but then knowing our luck teams above us picking all need QBs.

If the Cards pass on Murray we should bite & at the very least add some excitement & anticipation to the franchise & its fanbase which has sorely been lacking for as long as I can remember.
 
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