Draft Value: Trading 5 for 3

[fansinceGWilson]

There will, absolutely, be no reports of a setback. Even if there was one, you certainly wouldn't hear about if from his doctors. That would be grounds for a lawsuit.

I'm not purporting that they are hiding anything, but they aren't going to say anything detrimental.

We disagree, depending on "setback." If he requires another surgery or re-injures the hip, it will be reported by his docs. If there are 'concerns' by one or more teams during their investigations, we all know they'll be leaked. If it's a flu or an additional month to heal, yeah, who cares?

 

[Rowdy1972]

There will, absolutely, be no reports of a setback. Even if there was one, you certainly wouldn't hear about if from his doctors. That would be grounds for a lawsuit.

I'm not purporting that they are hiding anything, but they aren't going to say anything detrimental.

You dont want Tua. We get it. You dont have to go out of your way to put a negative spin on everything that is Tua related. That's all you do in these threads. Everything has been positive so far. Sure something could come out negative. I think everyone understands that.

 

[Mach2]

We disagree, depending on "setback." If he requires another surgery or re-injures the hip, it will be reported by his docs. If there are 'concerns' by one or more teams during their investigations, we all know they'll be leaked. If it's a flu or an additional month to heal, yeah, who cares?

It is rare for me to disagree w/you, but we do in this instance.

Even if he required another procedure, unless it was an emergency, he would be a fool to do it before the draft, as it would, literally, cost him millions.

 

[Mach2]

You dont want Tua. We get it. You dont have to go out of your way to put a negative spin on everything that is Tua related. That's all you do in these threads. Everything has been positive so far. Sure something could come out negative. I think everyone understands that.

That seems defensive.


While it is true, Tua is not my preference, in the post you quoted, I specifically said that I wasn't accusing them of hiding anything.

My position here is that I don't think you would hear anything negative from his doctors. There is such a thing as doctor/patient confidentiality, and saying something negative would open them up to lawsuits.

This has nothing to do with Tua specifically. It applies to anyone who is injured, and under a physician's care.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

It is rare for me to disagree w/you, but we do in this instance.

Even if he required another procedure, unless it was an emergency, he would be a fool to do it before the draft, as it would, literally, cost him millions.

My concern is "I'm not purporting that they are hiding anything" and "but they aren't going to say anything detrimental."

I doubt they'll hide anything teams can find out by reading medical reports.

 

[Rowdy1972]

That seems defensive.


While it is true, Tua is not my preference, in the post you quoted, I specifically said that I wasn't accusing them of hiding anything.

My position here is that I don't think you would hear anything negative from his doctors. There is such a thing as doctor/patient confidentiality, and saying something negative would open them up to lawsuits.

This has nothing to do with Tua specifically. It applies to anyone who is injured, and under a physician's care.

You are gonna have medical staffs looking at Tua from every team. I think negative news would come out. But spin it how you want. Medical leaks happen every year. Swift got it last year.

"So and So is dropping due to a medical concern." HAPPENS EVERY YEAR.

 

[marino13zach54]

The problem becomes when you draw that line and they ask for an addition 3rd round pick are you really willing to walk away from Tua or what ever player you want because of that 3rd pick. And once you move your line and say ok I'll take my origianl offer and add the 3rd round pick but nothing more are you really willing to walk away if they then say now we want the 4th round pick too? Do you really want took back and say the only thing that kept you from making a deal was 3rd or 4th round pick? I think it's hard to just draw that hard line in the sand and say I won't cross this amount.

Then what's to keep them from continuing to push the line? "How about a 4th next year too? And come on, throw in a 5 while you're at it. How about a date with your wife as well? Don't worry- totally platonic."

By the time you look back, you're telling your significant other to put on her best dress because you desperately need that QB. I'm obviously over-exaggerating but you get the point.

You can remain flexible but you use the line as a point of reference. Okay, you can have the 4, I want your 5 or something to that effect.

This is why you have plans A, B, C. There is a set amount you've taken into account- a line- to know when you have to move on from one plan to the next.

 

[marino13zach54]

You are gonna have medical staffs looking at Tua from every team. I think negative news would come out. But spin it how you want. Medical leaks happen every year. Swift got it last year.

"So and So is dropping due to a medical concern." HAPPENS EVERY YEAR.

Exactly. He'll be under a microscope with extreme prejudice.

These front offices communicate with one another. Word, positive or otherwise, gets around.

 

[Etrius24]

Do NOT trade up...

 

[marino13zach54]

I don't understand this statement, how are folks being too positive exactly. Many on here said the kid would need to be wheeled out onto the stage on draft day, yet here he is 2 months before that date walking unaided with little to no limp. All the medicals reports that have been made available have been positive, he's even going to throw at a pro day, that's something I didn't even think was remotely possible. There has been zero negative reports on his recovery everything points to it going extremely well. So I have no clue where you are coming from, other than pushing your own agenda whatever that is.

If you are passing on a talent that he so obviously has, even if he falls to round 2, in a draft where we have 5 picks in those top 2 rounds, then I'm sure glad you're not Chris Grier, because that is, sorry to be blunt, completely out to lunch.

Many a QB with less to worry about have fallen.

The pushing of agendas come from the Tua zealots. Come on. That is fact. You have posters with Tua avatars and signatures in discussions as if they even belong in them given their extreme bias. How do you have a balanced conversation with a poster like that?

Falling to the 2nd round is preposterous.

 

[Dolphinator530]

Do NOT trade up...

Why?

 

[Mach2]

You are gonna have medical staffs looking at Tua from every team. I think negative news would come out. But spin it how you want. Medical leaks happen every year. Swift got it last year.

I know it is probably just my cynical nature, but things are often intentionally "leaked" for a purpose.

Getting into the weeds here, but whats to prevent a team like Carolina, for example, leaking bad info to get teams to pass?

That's why I don't take much stock in anonymous sources.

Also, I think most teams are going to go with what their own medical staff says, as opposed to outside info.

 

[Rowdy1972]

I know it is probably just my cynical nature, but things are often intentionally "leaked" for a purpose.

Getting into the weeds here, but whats to prevent a team like Carolina, for example, leaking bad info to get teams to pass?

That's why I don't take much stock in anonymous sources.

Also, I think most teams are going to go with what their own medical staff says, as opposed to outside info.

I have to go all the way back to last year to find an example. Montez Sweat. It was leaked he was gonna drop and he did drop because of the heart condition. He was projected as a top ten pick. Fell to 26.

 

[Etrius24]

Why?

Love Tua... But I am not open for giving up three first round picks to move up 2 spots for a QB that has injury concerns.

If someone jumps over us and tua is gone at 5.... We have to let it go.

 

[marino13zach54]

Here's what's even better: One of the weirdest hills that people have chosen to die on on this forum is what "Full Recovery" means. The argument has been posed that when surgeons said he would make a full recovery, that didn't mean he would be able to play football again at a high level.

Because, you know...the surgeons obviously didn't know who Tua was, and if they had known, they would have said, "Oh, ****! He's a FOOTBALL PLAYER? Oh! Well, um, let me make sure I qualify what I said. He'll be able to walk around just fine. But football? Gosh no!"

Here's an excerpt from the Herald yesterday:

"And on that note, Tagovailoa was asked if his doctors have told him they’re confident he’ll be as good after his recovery as he was before the injury.

“Yeah, my doctors have said that,” Tagovailoa said. “And I’m confident, yes sir.”"

Can we shelve that argument now? Doctors can certainly be wrong, and there's obviously a risk to taking Tua, but let's not pretend things aren't looking very positive so far.

Completely agree. All reports are coming back positive. But if you aren't worried about the next hit, you're living in a Tua bubble and we know many are. You can bank that GMs with their jobs on the line will not be operating within said bubble.

And what are the doctors really supposed to say? Are they supposed to ruin the kid by saying he'll never be the same player again? They can't even make the statement even if they wanted to because how could a doctor accurately predict the future?

I posted before that my doctor cousin said that in many cases the hip can come back even stronger than it was before the surgery due to the way they secure the ball back into the socket or something like that.

But if that next hit doesn't scare the living heck out of you, superman hip and all, you're drunk on the ade or you're not human.