Enough about ZT being old /DC vs JB

[NJL52]

Shortened Version: Don't just cheer for your team, watch the damn game. There is a hell of alot more to football then who gets the ball.



First off, if you are one of the 30 people complaining about ZT losing his edge because he got ran over by Ron Dayne or can't do anything on a blitz, get out of here and go back to Madden.

Zach Thomas is slow, short, unathletic and not very physical. He always has been and always will be.

Zach Thomas' whole career and his astonishing play on the field was caused by the defensive system being tailored to work for him. The goal of the defense from his rookie year until part of last year was for the defensive linemen and the outside linebackers to take on blockers so that Zach could read and react. They allowed Zach Thomas to roam freely for he could use his only strength to make plays.

Zach Thomas has always relied on his mind and knowledge of the game to make plays. That is the only reason he is good at this game. And he only gets smarter after every game. His speed might go down but that isn't what he relies on. A slow player losing speed isn't a huge effect. ZT never relied on his speed to be a good NFL player, so losing speed doens't hurt as much as most think.

Jim Bates system relied on Tim Bowens and whoever else was in the middle to absorb blockers. The OLB also took on blockers a good amount of the time. The Jim Bates was essentially funnel the ball carrier to ZT. This aloud ZT to read and make plays. This is what he is good at, this is called playing to your best players strength.

Dom Capers system relies on everybody making plays. The 3-4 is designed around having 4 linebackers who are all 6'4 250 and 4.5/4.6 speed. They are all expected to run around and make tackles. Capers system doesn't cater to ZT in anyway so all ZT is is a unathletic, slow and short spot filler out there. This causes ZT to take as many blocks as a any other man out there, exactly what ZT is bad at. So now all an offensive coordinator has to do is make sure 1 man picks up ZT wherever he may stand and ZT is limited to being just a 5'11 230 pound linebacker. Same thing that happens with a blitz. Zach Thomas gets blitzed and is being forced to use his speed and size, or lack there of, to make a play, which is just stupid.

So in the end, basically Capers is a horrible DC and doesn't understand how to use personel or Saban & co are planning on removing ZT.

[mod]Not a bad post, but please refrain from being rude.[/mod]

 

[PhinsPhan]

good thoughts. But one thing that people forget is that Zach was actually an uncommonly good blitzer. I think now they are blitzing him and he is expected to take on blockers where as before he was called on delays and forced to shoot holes.

I get really sick of seeing Capers man Zach against a skilled TE. Or blitz him into a RG. But it is also important to remember that last year this was the same system where Taylor and Thomas had some of their best seasons yet. All I can think that changed was the DC.

 

[NJL52]

good thoughts. But one thing that people forget is that Zach was actually an uncommonly good blitzer. I think now they are blitzing him and he is expected to take on blockers where as before he was called on delays and forced to shoot holes.

I get really sick of seeing Capers man Zach against a skilled TE. Or blitz him into a RG. But it is also important to remember that last year this was the same system where Taylor and Thomas had some of their best seasons yet. All I can think that changed was the DC.

Zach was never a good blitzer. A good blitzer is categorized as a man who can take on blockers and has the speed to get to the QB, neither of which he has. He has only been succesful on blitzes when the right blitz was called at the right time, something that was common in previous years and hasn't happened once this year.

And the defenses are a good bit different. Last year was the Jim Bates defense along with some minimal 3-4 usage. This year is the 3-4 with the minimal Jim Bates usage. I can't recall a game from last year where I was complaining about ZT's usage, something prevalent this year.

 

[DolphanD]

Our defense is fine but on the other side of the ball we have many problems.

 

[mia4ever]

good thoughts. But one thing that people forget is that Zach was actually an uncommonly good blitzer. I think now they are blitzing him and he is expected to take on blockers where as before he was called on delays and forced to shoot holes.
I get really sick of seeing Capers man Zach against a skilled TE. Or blitz him into a RG. But it is also important to remember that last year this was the same system where Taylor and Thomas had some of their best seasons yet. All I can think that changed was the DC.

you are so correct my friend

 

[Phinphanatic13]

Capers did not get two head coaching jobs from being a "horrible defensive coordinator". He is a very good DC.

 

[phinphanforever]

Shortened Version: Don't just cheer for your team, watch the damn game. There is a hell of alot more to football then who gets the ball.



First off, if you are one of the 30 people complaining about ZT losing his edge because he got ran over by Ron Dayne or can't do anything on a blitz, get out of here and go back to Madden.

Zach Thomas is slow, short, unathletic and not very physical. He always has been and always will be.

Zach Thomas' whole career and his astonishing play on the field was caused by the defensive system being tailored to work for him. The goal of the defense from his rookie year until part of last year was for the defensive linemen and the outside linebackers to take on blockers so that Zach could read and react. They allowed Zach Thomas to roam freely for he could use his only strength to make plays.

Zach Thomas has always relied on his mind and knowledge of the game to make plays. That is the only reason he is good at this game. And he only gets smarter after every game. His speed might go down but that isn't what he relies on. A slow player losing speed isn't a huge effect. ZT never relied on his speed to be a good NFL player, so losing speed doens't hurt as much as most think.

Jim Bates system relied on Tim Bowens and whoever else was in the middle to absorb blockers. The OLB also took on blockers a good amount of the time. The Jim Bates was essentially funnel the ball carrier to ZT. This aloud ZT to read and make plays. This is what he is good at, this is called playing to your best players strength.

Dom Capers system relies on everybody making plays. The 3-4 is designed around having 4 linebackers who are all 6'4 250 and 4.5/4.6 speed. They are all expected to run around and make tackles. Capers system doesn't cater to ZT in anyway so all ZT is is a unathletic, slow and short spot filler out there. This causes ZT to take as many blocks as a any other man out there, exactly what ZT is bad at. So now all an offensive coordinator has to do is make sure 1 man picks up ZT wherever he may stand and ZT is limited to being just a 5'11 230 pound linebacker. Same thing that happens with a blitz. Zach Thomas gets blitzed and is being forced to use his speed and size, or lack there of, to make a play, which is just stupid.

So in the end, basically Capers is a horrible DC and doesn't understand how to use personel or Saban & co are planning on removing ZT.

[mod]Not a bad post, but please refrain from being rude.[/mod]

Your principal argument seems to be that the coaches are using the wrong scheme (3-4) to match their personnel. While I agree that they don't have all the personnel yet (dire need of mean safety and a pass rushing Lb) I like the scheme. The calls have not all been great, but the 3-4 just presents so many more options.
ZT doesn't fit great in a 3-4, but he should still be effective. I think his struggles have less to do with the scheme and more with age. He has been a warrior for us in the past, and I still think he can be a big contributer to the team, but he is not the same player hew used tobe. You can't blame missed tackles on schemes.

 

[NJL52]

Your principal argument seems to be that the coaches are using the wrong scheme (3-4) to match their personnel. While I agree that they don't have all the personnel yet (dire need of mean safety and a pass rushing Lb) I like the scheme.

Correct, and it isn't working. I, too, am a huge fan of the 3-4. Just because it is a good system doesn't mean you can use it with anybody.

A 3-4 with our personnel is like giving Reggie Bush 32 dives and traps a game. He might be a good player, but he isn't great.

The calls have not all been great, but the 3-4 just presents so many more options.

Options that don't work, we don't have the tools for it to work.

ZT doesn't fit great in a 3-4, but he should still be effective.

No, he shouldn't. The 3-4 calls for big, fast, dumb linebackers. Zach Thomas is a small, slow, smart linebacker. Saying that Zach should be good in this system is like taking a 5-11 230 pound man who runs a 5.0 off the street and asking him to be the heart of your defense. It isn't logical, reasonable or understandable why they are doing this.

I think his struggles have less to do with the scheme and more with age.

I disagree. Like I said, a person who relies on his athletic ability to be good will grow horrible with age. Because you get slower and weaker and your strengths are gone.

Zach Thomas has played his whole career slow, losing a step doesn't help his cause but it sure doesn't cause him to be a bad player. He went from perhaps the most dominating year of his career last year to so far the worse this year. One year of aging doesn't cause that.

He has been a warrior for us in the past, and I still think he can be a big contributer to the team, but he is not the same player hew used to be. You can't blame missed tackles on schemes.

He missed what, 1 tackle yesterday? I can only think of 1.

When he got ran over Ron Dayne was running with a full head of steam as ZT was coming off a block by a lineman. What the hell do you expect? Not to mention he made the tackle.

You put them head to head I have no doubt it is close or ZT wins.

 

[NJL52]

Capers did not get two head coaching jobs from being a "horrible defensive coordinator". He is a very good DC.

More then half of the game is using the personnel correctly. Using a player correctly makes more of a difference then the scheme as a whole.

Dom Capers has proved he doesn't know a damned thing about personnel. He is using Zach Thomas like he used Jamie Sharper, something even my mother realized during the Texans game.

As far as I'm concerned, that makes you a horrible coordinator.