ESPN's PTI on Zach and his Probowl Selection | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

ESPN's PTI on Zach and his Probowl Selection

Obviously tackles are a telling statistic of a LB's play, but so many other factors have to be put in place. 21 tackles is an anomaly of a stat where yes if you get that many then you are a beast cause thats so out of the ordinary. But certain schemes direct traffic towards certain guys. Could be that they are running the ball a lot rather than passing and thus the player gets more opportunities. Could be that there are more plays in general to have tackles for. Might be that the other team feels that thats a weak area (either the DL in front of that LB or that LB in general) and can exploit it so they direct their offense towards a specific guy. Could be that most of the tackles were assists or whatever.

My point is that tackles are important, but they shouldnt be the defining factor in determining performance. Thats just looking at a stat sheet. Impact on the game, game changing plays, thats what makes a player worthy of a Pro Bowl selection. Thats why DeMeco isn't in. Ray deserves to be in for his efforts. Zach deserves to be in because he does both. But like I said, there are so many spots open and every year there are a glut of worthy players at a given position, oh well.


If some players benefit from certain schemes than good for them. Does LJ or Willie Parker not deserve to go to the Pro Bowl because they are in running offenses with very good O-Line man...no. Harrison and Wayne benefit from Manning, do they not deserve to go either?

Zach is a definite Pro Bowler, anyone who says otherwise is rediculous. The Miami D is among the best. Zach leads the league in tackles. Honestly, that is enough for me.
 
Since Taylor is a better all-around DE than Gastineua, why are you comparing them? The discussion is about the HOF. BTW, Taylor is not done. His durability is also a consideration for the HOF.

yet he missed 3 playoff games, why is his durability a factor in the reg season but he missed 3 of 8 playoff games and it's not? he still has ZERO postseason sacks in 5 games.

Jordan had a more developed post game. He also began shooting ALOT of 18 Footers towards the end of his career. Wade attacks the basket from whistle to whistle. THAT'S HOW he gets calls. Stop hating and pay attention.

But Jordan got all the calls, right? How did wade shooting much less go to the line much more when Jordan had the more developed post game?

Jeff George put up very good numbers without Moss in Indy. Cunningham was a pro bowler before Moss got there. Your arguement has holes in it..to say the least.

george could put up big #s but never won a playoff game before until he got to Minny. randall had taken a year off in 1995,his last gerat #s season was 1990 and in '97 w/o Moss on Minny he had 6 TDs and 4 INts then he throws 34 and 10 in '98.


It is settled. Sports writers vote for the HOF. he is considered, year in and year out in the top 2 or 3 DE's in the NFL, by the same writers that will vote. Sorry, but he is getting in. And on the first ballot no less. Just like Michael Strahan.

They will evaulate his good, not great, #s and he will not get in. The media hype dies down after guys retire. Most people felt Art Monk was a lock for the hall when he retired, how has that worked out?

Gastineau was a one dimensional type of player. He is the reason Andre Tippet and Pat Swilling won't make it. Tippet/Swilling were great pass rushers as well, but they didn't make waves in other areas of their game. Like I said before, longevity is important as well. Taylor is in his prime NOW. Gastineu at this point in his career was on the decline. I think you should rip the writers and everybody else with eyesight, because JT is on the fast track to the Hall.

gastineau was a DOMINANT pass rusher, DEs are judged by sacks and taylor isn't close to the pass rusher gastineau was.

They dwarf his numbers because you can compare. Taylor has 3 more FF's in 10 years than Bruce Smith had in 20 years, he also has 3 more FF's than LAWRENCE TAYLOR for christs sake, and Bruce Smith and Lawrence Taylor are widely considered the best pass rushers of all-time. and remember...Jason Taylor is not done.

How bout comparing Taylor's stats to guys that are already in? It's really funny that Taylor already has better stats than Lawrence Taylor and will bury LT's numbers by the time he is done...yet...you want to keep him out.

Now he is better than LT?:sidelol: How do his #s dwarf LT's? LT has alot more sacks. LT had 142 sacks and JT has 106. LT played 13 seasons(lost games to 2 strikes and injuries in one year so really he has played about 12 years) and JT 10 but JT would have to average 12 sacks a year the next 3 to catch him(really 18 the next 2) and he's only had 5 double digit sack years in his career(10 years) so to ask an aging player to get 3 more seasons of 12 sacks is asking alot and Lt was the most dominant defensive player EVER, JT isn't evn close to the most dominating of his era. By the way LT had SEVEN years in a row of double digit sakcs, Jt's long streak has been 2.


My god....if you just research it a little...it seems that if Jason Taylor doesn't get in ON THE FIRST BALLOT, it will be a travesty.

Take your own advice.
 
Can't we all just get along? No one is going to be correct here until JT's retired and in the HOF (if he gets in).

Whats the point in arguing?
 
yet he missed 3 playoff games, why is his durability a factor in the reg season but he missed 3 of 8 playoff games and it's not? he still has ZERO postseason sacks in 5 games.

Because BROKEN BONES and TORN Tendons don't realize that it is all of a sudden playoff time. Are you suggesting that he broke his arm and tore shoulder ligaments on purpose?


But Jordan got all the calls, right? How did wade shooting much less go to the line much more when Jordan had the more developed post game?

BECAUSE HE ATTACKS THE BASKET THE WHOLE GAME. PAY ATTENTION.

george could put up big #s but never won a playoff game before until he got to Minny. randall had taken a year off in 1995,his last gerat #s season was 1990 and in '97 w/o Moss on Minny he had 6 TDs and 4 INts then he throws 34 and 10 in '98.

Nice dance you did there.

They will evaulate his good, not great, #s and he will not get in. The media hype dies down after guys retire. Most people felt Art Monk was a lock for the hall when he retired, how has that worked out?

Good? Not Great? His numbers are great already. They will be astronomical by the time he retires.

gastineau was a DOMINANT pass rusher, DEs are judged by sacks and taylor isn't close to the pass rusher gastineau was.

Numbers are numbers. Gastineus are not as good as Taylor's in the same time. Just a fact. Sorry to face you with it. Taylor is about to pass him sacks as well...THIS YEAR.

Now he is better than LT?:sidelol: How do his #s dwarf LT's? LT has alot more sacks. LT had 142 sacks and JT has 106. LT played 13 seasons(lost games to 2 strikes and injuries in one year so really he has played about 12 years) and JT 10 but JT would have to average 12 sacks a year the next 3 to catch him(really 18 the next 2) and he's only had 5 double digit sack years in his career(10 years) so to ask an aging player to get 3 more seasons of 12 sacks is asking alot and Lt was the most dominant defensive player EVER, JT isn't evn close to the most dominating of his era. By the way LT had SEVEN years in a row of double digit sakcs, Jt's long streak has been 2.

I didn't say that he is better than LT. I said that his numbers will be better than LT's. But of course...his numbers are "good"....not great. I guess LT was just "good"..not great.

Take your own advice.

You seriously need to take off those green colored glasses, and see a great player for what he is regardless of his uniform.

.
 
If some players benefit from certain schemes than good for them. Does LJ or Willie Parker not deserve to go to the Pro Bowl because they are in running offenses with very good O-Line man...no. Harrison and Wayne benefit from Manning, do they not deserve to go either?

Zach is a definite Pro Bowler, anyone who says otherwise is rediculous. The Miami D is among the best. Zach leads the league in tackles. Honestly, that is enough for me.

Again I'll say it for the hundredth time. I believe Zach deserves to go to the Pro Bowl. Probably more so than any other LB in the AFC. I don't see why this is still going on lol. Schemes obviously help out stats in all positions, but when it comes down to choosing between candidates you might want to give more value to the guy who isn't the focal point of a scheme. Zach doesn't apply because he does everything you want from a LB. Ray should get more consideration because he has a huge impact with less opportunities.
 
Because BROKEN BONES and TORN Tendons don't realize that it is all of a sudden playoff time. Are you suggesting that he broke his arm and tore shoulder ligaments on purpose?


So then you are saying players who aren't durable get hurt on purpose? How can you crow about durability when he's missed almost half his team's playoff games?


BECAUSE HE ATTACKS THE BASKET THE WHOLE GAME. PAY ATTENTION.

Jordan never attacked the basket.:rolleyes:

Nice dance you did there.

If dancing means facts then thank you.

Good? Not Great? His numbers are great already. They will be astronomical by the time he retires.

Only 5 double digit sack seasons is not great. He's a very, very good player- he's not great. he's having a great year but overall he hasn't been great. Great is something i reserve for the LT and Deacon Jones types and he's nowhere near an LT or Deacon type.


Numbers are numbers. Gastineus are not as good as Taylor's in the same time. Just a fact. Sorry to face you with it. Taylor is about to pass him sacks as well...THIS YEAR.

in less games he has more sacks, how are they not better?

You seriously need to take off those green colored glasses, and see a great player for what he is regardless of his uniform.

if he was great I'd say so, every time I don't go gaga over your players you think I am biased b/c I am a Jet fan but how do you explain that I consider Dan marino the best QB of all time? he was a dolphin, right? Taylor has been one of the top pass rushers in the game but to me there's more to making the HOF. You have to be dominant throughout your career and he hasn't been and if your #s are close you have to have standout gams when they matter most and he's never done that.
 
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