Etienne

[EJay]

It's also how you end up with Henry, Hunt, Jones II, Drake and Conner, none of whom were drafted in the first round and all top 10 in rushing yards this season.

(And Robinson is 11th and wasn't drafted)

And lots of successful QB’s that weren’t drafted in the 1st round can be cited too (Russell Wilson anyone?).

Every single position on the field has a myriad of examples of pro bowl caliber players that were under-drafted.

It’s fine that you don’t subscribe to drafting a RB in the 1st, but the examples you cited aren’t a strong argument against.

 

[EJay]

Well the teams that sunk high 1st round picks into Saquon Barkley, Leonard Fournette, Zeke Elliott, Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon, etc. aren't doing too hot either. Especially after they had to decide to pay 'em or start over at the position.

Miami passed up a lot of good backs on day 2 lately that I would've taken. But that's really the point. It'll never be too late to do it. Every year there will be quality, productive RB's to be had in that range - and Miami putting it off as long as they have while focusing on other areas is going to turn out to be fine.

The $$$ aspect is certainly valid. But that kinda thing happens with elite WR’s too.

Secondly, those teams that sunk high first round picks were in position to do so because, well, they had a lot of holes and weren’t very good. For some of them, that’s largely why they aren’t doing too hot.

Although DAL has been pretty good offensively during Zeke’s tenure and were doing well this season until Dak was injured. Their problem has been and continues to be on the defensive side of the ball.

The RAMS made a Super Bowl appearance with Gurley — who was a huge reason for their success until his injury.

JAX also had a window of opportunity with Fournette but barely lost to NE in the AFC title game and have fallen apart since.

Barkley and Gordon’s teams just haven’t been good period. Before or after they were drafted. Certainly not their doing.

But all the others played on teams that had chances. And their offenses largely thrived because of what they brought to the table.

Henry — who should have been a 1st round pick — is the center of the Titans offensive universe.

 

[Rev Kev]

I'd normally agree with you, it's not a value position. The Oline has the biggest influence on the run game, as Mike Shanahan proved year after year. There's value in later rounds and UDFAs, like Gaskin, James Robinson and Jamycal Hasty.

But we can't afford another season with no run threat. We can't afford having nobody who can take it to the house. We can't afford to gamble and lose on a Ballage, Breida or Howard, and we definitely shouldn't pay big money to a guy like Leveon Bell. We need to sort the run game now if we're rolling with Tua or we'll be back looking for a QB and RBs again in a couple of years. Maybe it's time to just do the deal and get the position sorted for 4 years. A young guy who hasn't got miles on the clock, hasn't lost his juice and on a cheap contract.

You shouldn't draft a long snapper in the 6th either. But we're reaping the benefit of that now.

Why not draft a long snapper? At the back end of the draft? Is it not an important position?

I mean not a lot of 6th rd picks stick on a roster? After 1 - 2 seasons

 

[macd123]

Why not draft a long snapper? At the back end of the draft? Is it not an important position?

I mean not a lot of 6th rd picks stick on a roster? After 1 - 2 seasons

I mean you're "not meant to" because they are generally UDFAs, even the good ones. There was a lot of talk at the time of it being a waste of a pick. I have no problem with us taking him in the 6th. Hopefully we won't need another for a decade.

 

[rickd13]

Don’t draft running backs in the first round and don’t pay them big second contracts. End of story.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

There are a few backs who will likely grade out as top 32 overall prospects for me in this class - just like a few did last year - simply because there are not going to be 32 better players than all of these RB's. However, I think it's difficult to justify drafting the position high in the 1st round. Drafting a back late in the 1st round when you have a roster like the Chiefs is a little different.

The problem with drafting RB's in the 1st round is that the better the kid ends up being for you, the more you're going to regret spending that 1st round pick on him down the road. You're just not going to be rewarded for hitting on a stud RB in the 1st round when you have to decide to fork over $60-90 million to pay him. That's precisely when your team will begin falling apart.

The wise move is always to find productive backs and starting caliber value in that 35-75 overall range to grab your RB. And to keep doing exactly that as often as needed.

Well said, Slimm. Another problem stands out to me - teams that draft RB's high feel the need to justify the pick by handing it off to RB's on early down, when they should be passing more often. People look at a given RB's volume stats and talk about how great and valuable he is. He may (or may not) be great, but we can look at things like EPA to see how valuable they are. With the exception of dominant running QB's - young Cam, Lamar Jackson, and Kyler Murray - even a mediocre passing game will be more efficient than a "dominant" running game.

If you had a team who was not beholden to justifying the investment, and you had a RB that was both dynamic as a runner and receiver, then I'd say, go ahead and spend a Top 40 pick. KC has actually done pretty well here. They haven't forced the issue to CEH, but on the other hand, he hasn't been worth the pick. Maybe he'll make some key plays in harsher weather, but to this point he's been less effective than D. Williams was last year and far less effective than Hunt (3rd RD) was before his incident.

The value of running in 2020 (in the NFL) is purely situational - short yardage, end of games, etc.. And, the RB is less important than the OC, QB, OL - and maybe even WR's - to the run game.

Speaking Top 40, I'd draft my 4th or 5th WR before a RB. People say you can never have enough CB's, and I don't understand why they don't apply the same logic to WR. Just as a D wants to be ableto match up as well as possible, the Offense should want to have a WR group that's as tough as possible to match up with. All the best offenses have answers for your answers. If you blanket Kelce and Hill, Mahomes has Watkins and Hardman.

Bringing it back to Miami, even if they spend 1a on WR, they'll only have two quality WR's - Parker and 1a. Williams would be a nice 4th or 5th option, but he doesn't separate and drops passes at a high rate. That's not a recipe for success. So, if Miami did go WR/WR, and assuming they picked good players, they'd be addressing a serious need with both picks.

I think you can get a guy like Hubbard with the 2b pick or maybe even in the 3rd, and he's the type of back I'd want to pair with this offense. The RPO puts D in conflict, and a RB with speed and burst can really take advantage of the creases it creates. Ahmed is kind of similar - just not as good - and you can see how his speed alone makes a big difference.

 

[rickd13]

Well said, Slimm. Another problem stands out to me - teams that draft RB's high feel the need to justify the pick by handing it off to RB's on early down, when they should be passing more often. People look at a given RB's volume stats and talk about how great and valuable he is. He may (or may not) be great, but we can look at things like EPA to see how valuable they are. With the exception of dominant running QB's - young Cam, Lamar Jackson, and Kyler Murray - even a mediocre passing game will be more efficient than a "dominant" running game.

If you had a team who was not beholden to justifying the investment, and you had a RB that was both dynamic as a runner and receiver, then I'd say, go ahead and spend a Top 40 pick. KC has actually done pretty well here. They haven't forced the issue to CEH, but on the other hand, he hasn't been worth the pick. Maybe he'll make some key plays in harsher weather, but to this point he's been less effective than D. Williams was last year and far less effective than Hunt (3rd RD) was before his incident.

The value of running in 2020 (in the NFL) is purely situational - short yardage, end of games, etc.. And, the RB is less important than the OC, QB, OL - and maybe even WR's - to the run game.

Speaking Top 40, I'd draft my 4th or 5th WR before a RB. People say you can never have enough CB's, and I don't understand why they don't apply the same logic to WR. Just as a D wants to be ableto match up as well as possible, the Offense should want to have a WR group that's as tough as possible to match up with. All the best offenses have answers for your answers. If you blanket Kelce and Hill, Mahomes has Watkins and Hardman.

Bringing it back to Miami, even if they spend 1a on WR, they'll only have two quality WR's - Parker and 1a. Williams would be a nice 4th or 5th option, but he doesn't separate and drops passes at a high rate. That's not a recipe for success. So, if Miami did go WR/WR, and assuming they picked good players, they'd be addressing a serious need with both picks.

I think you can get a guy like Hubbard with the 2b pick or maybe even in the 3rd, and he's the type of back I'd want to pair with this offense. The RPO puts D in conflict, and a RB with speed and burst can really take advantage of the creases it creates. Ahmed is kind of similar - just not as good - and you can see how his speed alone makes a big difference.

This is 100% exactly how I feel about Miami’s situation, or any organization that is competent for that matter. I think the Chiefs blew it. I keep hearing how great a selection CEH was for them, but than I look at the running backs taken later and feel almost all of them are better or at least equal to him. I would rather have Antonio Gibson over him and he was taken in the third round and he didn’t even play the position regularly in college. There just isn’t value in that position in the first round. The value in this era of football is centered around the QB and the passing game.

 

[A1.]

I’m curious how everyone feels about Etienne as a pass catcher. I’ve seen Kamara like comparisons. I really like Etienne as a prospect but I’ve dismissed him as a future pick as I believe he’ll go higher than I’m willing to spend on a RB this year.

I haven’t studied the kid, I just watch him in real time over the years and he looks electric. Is he the most dynamic pass catching back to come out in a while or is that just noise?

 

[SaskFinFan]

Will Etienne ball security have an impact. I just hear and read that his ball security is a real issue, for me that just does not make him a pick for me. Or is this just overblown, cause I could never spend a 1st or even high 2nd on a RB that has ball security issues.

 

[A1.]

Will Etienne ball security have an impact. I just hear and read that his ball security is a real issue, for me that just does not make him a pick for me. Or is this just overblown, cause I could never spend a 1st or even high 2nd on a RB that has ball security issues.

I don’t know enough about him to speak on it. I know ball security was a real problem w/ jonathon Taylor, and he’s been a very ineffective runner in the NFL bc he’s running very covered up and stuck in first gear. He’s running to not fumble. He’s been all but benched in Indy due to it, and he actually did fumble the week before last

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Iirc Etienne returned to Clemson because he received a 2nd RD grade. I don't think he's done anything in 2020 to improve his stock. If anything, coming out as a SR without showing anything new would ding him a bit.

Anyway, my point is that I don't understand why people are mocking him in the late 1st, when the NFL has already said that it's not high on him - even though he's an absolute stud. I'd feel a lot better about Miami spending 2a than 1b on Etienne. I'd still prefer to wait until at least 2b, but that's where that kind of pick at least starts to make sense.

 

[BigNastyFish]

Iirc Etienne returned to Clemson because he received a 2nd RD grade. I don't think he's done anything in 2020 to improve his stock. If anything, coming out as a SR without showing anything new would ding him a bit.

Anyway, my point is that I don't understand why people are mocking him in the late 1st, when the NFL has already said that it's not high on him - even though he's an absolute stud. I'd feel a lot better about Miami spending 2a than 1b on Etienne. I'd still prefer to wait until at least 2b, but that's where that kind of pick at least starts to make sense.

No way in hell I see Grier + Flo burning an R1 on RB. Never gonna happen. But Etienne in R2
would be, for me, very difficult to pass on. Kid is dynamic. Complete game. Team dude. Tuff.
I think he potentially adds as much "pop" to our O as anyone -- and definitely impacts the
scoreboard. But I really doubt the kid makes it out of R1. I liked him last year as much as
any back in the draft and he's got less R1 competition this year than last IMO. Of course
he decided to stay in school... I see that as a curious decision at best.

But, as others are pointing out, Grier + Flo getting serious about RB probably won't start until R3.
Even with the rather dramatic improvements we've made on OL -- it's never a bad decision
to get better up front. I fully expect us to land another OL early -- one of the top 4 picks.
WR - ILB - OL all come before RB in my view.

Look at this kid we've got replacing Gaskin -- certainly not a monster but give him a hole
and the kid is getting positive yards consistently! So -- moving forward better run blocking
should be a priority. And adding that as a consistent threat helps the entire team.

>>> oh yeah, and great to see you back in these here parts!

 

[SCOTTY]

Iirc Etienne returned to Clemson because he received a 2nd RD grade. I don't think he's done anything in 2020 to improve his stock. If anything, coming out as a SR without showing anything new would ding him a bit.

Anyway, my point is that I don't understand why people are mocking him in the late 1st, when the NFL has already said that it's not high on him - even though he's an absolute stud. I'd feel a lot better about Miami spending 2a than 1b on Etienne. I'd still prefer to wait until at least 2b, but that's where that kind of pick at least starts to make sense.

Most have ETN as the best rb in this class. With that, Do you think any rb is going in the first. Or is this the historic year no rb is taken?

 

[LargoFin]

Etienne is consensus #1 RB and consensus late first rounder. 20+ range.

 

[Phinatic8u]

Well said, Slimm. Another problem stands out to me - teams that draft RB's high feel the need to justify the pick by handing it off to RB's on early down, when they should be passing more often. People look at a given RB's volume stats and talk about how great and valuable he is. He may (or may not) be great, but we can look at things like EPA to see how valuable they are. With the exception of dominant running QB's - young Cam, Lamar Jackson, and Kyler Murray - even a mediocre passing game will be more efficient than a "dominant" running game.

If you had a team who was not beholden to justifying the investment, and you had a RB that was both dynamic as a runner and receiver, then I'd say, go ahead and spend a Top 40 pick. KC has actually done pretty well here. They haven't forced the issue to CEH, but on the other hand, he hasn't been worth the pick. Maybe he'll make some key plays in harsher weather, but to this point he's been less effective than D. Williams was last year and far less effective than Hunt (3rd RD) was before his incident.

The value of running in 2020 (in the NFL) is purely situational - short yardage, end of games, etc.. And, the RB is less important than the OC, QB, OL - and maybe even WR's - to the run game.

Speaking Top 40, I'd draft my 4th or 5th WR before a RB. People say you can never have enough CB's, and I don't understand why they don't apply the same logic to WR. Just as a D wants to be ableto match up as well as possible, the Offense should want to have a WR group that's as tough as possible to match up with. All the best offenses have answers for your answers. If you blanket Kelce and Hill, Mahomes has Watkins and Hardman.

Bringing it back to Miami, even if they spend 1a on WR, they'll only have two quality WR's - Parker and 1a. Williams would be a nice 4th or 5th option, but he doesn't separate and drops passes at a high rate. That's not a recipe for success. So, if Miami did go WR/WR, and assuming they picked good players, they'd be addressing a serious need with both picks.

I think you can get a guy like Hubbard with the 2b pick or maybe even in the 3rd, and he's the type of back I'd want to pair with this offense. The RPO puts D in conflict, and a RB with speed and burst can really take advantage of the creases it creates. Ahmed is kind of similar - just not as good - and you can see how his speed alone makes a big difference.

Chase and Smith.

, could you imagine?

I can't pass on Micah Parsons if he's there with Houston's pick. No way can I, he's the best LBer prospect ive seen since Luke. Now I want Parsons, Smith, and the best available WR the rest of the way. There's a lot of really good WR prospects in this draft that Miami needs to get. An example of Aamari Rodgers in round 3 from Clemson would be a day 1 slot star with his speed and route running ability. Those are the kind of players this team needs.

The amount of high draft picks at WR always scare me. Not many top 5 guys work out from a lazy approach of just going off my memory.