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FEB 22, New Claim of Taping Emerges Against Patriots

Dorfdad

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/s...en=7b8ddff987863917&ei=5099&partner=TOPIXNEWS

The Patriots’ pattern of illicitly videotaping the signals of opposing N.F.L. coaches began in Coach Bill Belichick’s first preseason with the team in 2000, a former Patriots player said. The information was put to use in that year’s regular-season opener against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Belichick’s debut as New England’s coach.

Belichick has said that he misinterpreted the league’s bylaws, telling Goodell that he thought it was permissible to use electronic equipment as long as the information was not used in the same game. That explanation has been greeted with disbelief by some peers and league officials.

In a news conference last week, Goodell said Belichick’s explanation led to the assumption that he had been videotaping opponents’ signals “as long as he has been head coach.â€

In the hallway at the convention center here, Mike Martz wanted to talk about his new job as San Francisco’s offensive coordinator. Instead, reporters peppered him with questions about the Patriots. Martz was the coach of the Rams when the teams met in the Super Bowl six years ago.
He took exception to the theory that the Patriots could not have gleaned much information from taping the walkthrough. He said indeed they could, but added that was not the point.
“For somebody to say that, it’s kind of disgusting,†Martz said. “The whole point is if they really cheated. To say he took some steroids and it did help or it didn’t help, that’s never the point. The point is, to all these high school coaches and high school kids and college kids, that if they did cheat, that’s the point.â€
Martz said he assumed the walkthrough report was false. A similar sentiment was voiced by Chicago Bears Coach Lovie Smith, the Rams’ defensive coordinator that season.



Really good read about the who thing. Now I know were kinda beating a dead horse, but some of those lines are troubleling. IF bellicheck has been cheating since DAY ONE of his Coaching tenure I think everyone over evaluates his brilliance..




Think about it if you taped EVERY opposing team you would get a good feeling for their signals that they are calling. 7 years you can build an entire staff position that does nothing but decode these signals and during games can call in those plays when they recognize them..

Im sure every team does something but to get a boost here and there but when your team is a juggernaut year in and out, with different players, coaches you do have to scratch your head...It's possible only one or two staff members knew of this procedure and had access during the games.

YET ANOTHER REASON TO HATE THEM!
 
Here is something else to think about

February 19, 2008

Hoffman: Suit against Patriots only reaffirms the obvious

By Rich Hoffman
The Philadelphia Daily News
Watching in amazement as Sen. Arlen Specter and some attorneys from the Cincinnati area attempt to turn Bill Belichick and his video camera into a federal case, literally, the following is offered for perspective:
"We know that (stealing signs) became an area of concentration for a lot of teams," the coach said. "I think that crossed the line of ethics; to have teams videotaping me on the sideline, then learning our plays."
The coach in question was Sam Wyche, then of the Tampa Bay Bucs. The quote comes from a St. Petersburg Times story published in 1994.
Then, this:
"We don't do it," another coach said. "There are other clubs that do and are really good at it. There are even two or three teams that videotape the other team's signals and study them ... I don't know if it's legal, but I'm pretty sure it's not kosher."
That coach was Jimmy Johnson, then of the Miami Dolphins. The quote comes from a Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel story published in 1997.
It has been against the rules forever, according to an NFL spokesman contacted the other day, but it seems that at least several teams were undeterred about sideline taping over the years - and, amazingly enough, both the sport and the republic survived. Yet here we all are, in a desperate race to get somebody named Matt Walsh in front of a legal stenographer so that he can tell us what he says he knows about the Patriots and whether they taped the St. Louis Rams at their pre-Super Bowl walkthrough in 2002.
Belichick is on record now, in a Boston Globe story published Monday. He denies everything, up, down and sideways. He says he didn't order videotaping of the walkthrough; he didn't see any tape; he has never seen a tape of any opponent's practice; and he "couldn't pick Matt Walsh out of a lineup."
It was all pretty emphatic - Clemensesque, in fact.
Hugh K. Campbell Jr., one of the attorneys who filed the class-action lawsuit against the Pats and Belichick, said that, like the rest of us, he read the coach's extensive denials Monday morning.
"We're curious to find out what Matt Walsh has to say," he said.
The $100 million lawsuit - which claims to represent the interests of Rams players and ticketholders defrauded by the dastardly Belichick - totals 25 pages. It is a colossal bore, as are most lawsuits. Having subjected it to a thorough and professional review - that is, as thorough and professional a review as can be performed by a layman who is semi-sprawled on a couch and flipping through it during commercials - this seems to be the entire basis of the suit:
"An unidentified source, but one the Boston Herald relied upon enough to publicize the allegation, told the Boston Herald a member of the Patriots video staff taped the St. Louis Rams last 'walk-through' before they played in the 2002 Super Bowl."
That's it. Really.
No?
"I don't think it's only based on a newspaper report," said Campbell, on the phone Monday from his office in Cincinnati.
"Bill Belichick has been fined $500,000 by the league," he said. "Obviously, I think they had proof that he did illegal taping since at least 2000, and I think Sen. Specter would agree with that. The filming didn't just start in 2006."
But videotaping sideline signals is completely different from videotaping a team's walkthrough on the day before the Super Bowl. The former is illegal, but more in the realm of digital gamesmanship, and it has been going on with other NFL teams, or at least alleged, for years; no, decades. The latter is much worse, a whole 'nother kettle of pixels and would almost certainly result in Belichick's being kicked out of the league (for lying to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, if nothing else).
Anyway, the race now is to get Walsh, the former Pats video/lackey guy, under oath. The problem is that Walsh is seeking immunity from a lawsuit regarding anything he says or anything he swiped from the Pats after he was fired.
Campbell said he and one of his co-counsels, Eric C. Deters, were working Monday on finding a way to craft an immunity deal. Campbell said that he was contacting Specter and trying to coordinate their efforts somehow - "It seems to make sense, in that we're all trying to get the same information," he said - and that Deters was contacting Walsh's attorney and working that angle.
"It's up to the court to allow discovery," Campbell said, meaning he can't get Walsh in front of the stenographer until the court says so. "It would be nice if Matt Walsh would come forward."
He will at some point, with some kind of immunity - that seems certain now. At which point, this great governmental intrusion into the unsportsmanlike conduct that has existed in the NFL forever will begin in earnest. Walsh will allege, Belichick will deny, and a grand national search will begin for an NFL version of Andy Pettitte. Hilarity will ensue.


http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/PatsBlog/archives/2008/02/hoffman_suit_ag.html
 
You have to admire NFLFan for throwing others into the fire while his team is burning. I admire your resolve bro but cmon, let it rest.
 
You have to admire NFLFan for throwing others into the fire while his team is burning. I admire your resolve bro but cmon, let it rest.


Actually, I had to put him on IGNORE months ago. I got very tired of the broken record that insists:

"Even though it smells, looks and tastes like a turd, It still isnt a turd"........
 
You have to admire NFLFan for throwing others into the fire while his team is burning. I admire your resolve bro but cmon, let it rest.



Sorry I can't take credit for that. The credit belongs to HC Sam Wyche and HC Jimmy Johnson. All the way back to 94 imagine that. :lol:
 
Actually, I had to put him on IGNORE months ago. I got very tired of the broken record that insists:

"Even though it smells, looks and tastes like a turd, It still isnt a turd"........

I can't help it if you only choose to smell the fresh turds. :D
 
I am confused as what the new part is....

i saw goddell say he has been doing it from his start as head coach in NE....so what is the new part here ?
 
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You have to admire NFLFan for throwing others into the fire while his team is burning. I admire your resolve bro but cmon, let it rest.

First off, myself, I think Belichick is guilty of everything he's being accused of. I don't condone it, either. It's nothing less than a blight on the league. But I want you to think about a few things, if you don't mind.
After the 1994 season the 49ers won the SB. Later on they were penalized for salary cap violations from that year. Violations that no doubt allowed them to keep a strong team together and of course gave them a huge edge.
In 2001 the Broncos were fined and lost a draft pick for paying Elway and Terrell Davis money under the table. Then again in 2004 they were penalized again for circumventing the salary cap back between 96 & 98.
These are all real and documented incidents of cheating.
There are quite a few other times that teams have been found to have cheated in one way or another. They've been penalized and everyone then moved on.
I have to wonder why the spygate thing is being so sensationalized compared to other proven and documented occurences. It's not as if the video taping is a more egregious form of cheating than paying Elway and Davis money under the table. They're all equally wrong.
Somewhere along the line someone has an agenda that has little to do with "getting to the bottom of things".
 
Sorry I can't take credit for that. The credit belongs to HC Sam Wyche and HC Jimmy Johnson. All the way back to 94 imagine that. :lol:
But Jimmy Johnson and Wyche dont mention who was taping them. To have the generic others do it is pointless. Both claim they are innocent and as long as there is one honest team in the NFL the Patriots need to be stripped of their SB trophies for every year they cheated:lol:
 
Did you notice how the NFL Competition Committee tried to sweep all of this under the rug yesterday, and throw their support to Goddell and and his actions.....one of the guys was from the Mara family. He obviously knows where his bread is buttered and would never make any condescending remarks about the Commish. I think Specter needs to convene some hearings on the matter and get some impartial individuals to look into why the tapes were burned. I also think it is time to see and hear what Walsh has on videotape. This is not going to go away Pat's fans. You've cheated since your first SB win.
 
Did you notice how the NFL Competition Committee tried to sweep all of this under the rug yesterday, and throw their support to Goddell and and his actions.....one of the guys was from the Mara family. He obviously knows where his bread is buttered and would never make any condescending remarks about the Commish. I think Specter needs to convene some hearings on the matter and get some impartial individuals to look into why the tapes were burned. I also think it is time to see and hear what Walsh has on videotape. This is not going to go away Pat's fans. You've cheated since your first SB win.

Well technically speaking, they were cheating BEFORE the first SB win..but who's keeping track :rolleyes:
 
But Jimmy Johnson and Wyche dont mention who was taping them. To have the generic others do it is pointless. Both claim they are innocent and as long as there is one honest team in the NFL the Patriots need to be stripped of their SB trophies for every year they cheated:lol:

Forgive me if I don't find anything in this to laugh about.

Johnson has admitted to using video tape to steal signals in the past. By the way he's also admitted to circumventing the 15 sec cutoff in communications with the QB too. If you would like a link i can povide one. Haven't you wondered why we never heard about this till now? He even told us the league had warned him to stop doing it so we know they were aware of it.

With that said none of that makes the Pats or Belichick innocent and I'm not trying to say because others have admitted to doing it that any of if should be minimized. Listen to the commisioners responses cause he has stated that it was well known that other teams steal signals as well as other sports and teams know that so they change up the signals. Heck if nobody was stealing them why would we need 2 dummy callers to begin with. Johnson, Wyche are telling us that this is a way of life in the NFL and that it has been for a long time. I don't think all teams did it but certainly by their statements we know that several teams did. The commisioners statement confirms this to me that the league has been aware of it yet has done little in the way of enforcing it, instead when a case of cheating has come up they have hushed it. Instead of providing the resorces to monitor and enforce they chose to present us with a facade of honest and fair games. I'm pissed at Belichick no doubt about it but I'm even more pissed at the league. I would think if you are a fan of the game this knowledge would at the very least be upsetting. How many things over the years has the league swept under the rug? If you're after fair and honest games doen't that practice by the league bother you?
I know that the Pats and coach Belichick will most likely be the fall guys but after this is over how to we assure it never happens again? League policies have to change because the good old boy policies haven't worked in a long time. To many its all about Belichick and the Patriots but it runs much deeper than that and unless the doors of the league aren't blown off its all destined to just remain nothing more than a facade.
 
the new thing is a former patriot is confirming it and confirming goodell and the NFL tried to keep this hush hush

also ted johnson said he used to get every once in a while a sheet with the opposing teams signals, he said he did not know how the team got it
i guess this is an older story but people discredited johnson because of his axe to grind with bb

the whole "dynasty is tainted" and "the golden boy" legacy may also be
 
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