"Fiedler and the 2002 Dolphins"

CRAZYDOLFAN305

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Fiedler and the 2002 Dolphins
09/23/02 11:36PM


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Everyone is waiting for the Jay Fiedler who threw only 9 TD's, 15 INT's and had 4 fumbles in his 1st 9 games last year. They're ignoring the most recent Jay Fiedler, who going back to his last 7 games last year, the Ravens playoff game and the 1st 3 games this year, he has put up 17 TD passes, 6 INT's, 1 Fum and 3 rushing TD's. I previously had been posting 5 rushing TD's, it's 3 in his last 11 games, 5 total counting 4 last year and 1 this year thus far.

I will repeat these numbers until people see it and realize how good that is.

Don't ignore those numbers, that's progress and any coach will tell you that. Norv talks about the growing process. Fiedler never had a real chance to develop as a 3rd and 2nd stringer. He got his chance in Miami. Now in his 3rd year with a lot more talent around him and a new contract, he's playing smarter and with more confidence. And that started down the stretch last year when playoff implications were on the line. The best 4th qtr QB rating in the NFL last year credited with 4 or 5 comeback victories. A career record of 25-10 and a 1-2 playoff record.

Jay has playoff experience and he only knows winning as a Dolphin with back to back 11-5 seasons. The 2002 Dolphins are what this team has been trying to build since JJ came here in 1996.

Jay Fiedler was not the downfall of the Dolphins last year, he along with Chambers were the Dolphins best offensive players. The running game (RB and OL) and the run defense let the team down. No running game hurt the banged up defense. They were on the field too long.

Look around the league and see who wins and why. It's so simple. The difference in talent level between NFL teams is 2 or 3 players. Maybe a coach. Norv Turner, Ricky, the upgrade on the OL, McMichael and the presence of Chambers makes this offense lethal. Guys like Gadsden, Ward, McKnight, Konrad, Edwards and Minor are secondary guys. That's depth. Clark is on his way.

It's amazing how offenses take off when all the skill positions are strong. You don't have to have the best RB, or the best WR, or the best QB, or the best TE, but if they're all good or very good, most defenses can't match up.

Then you have a guy like Norv who can dissect a defense with his preparation and play-calling. Norv is an elite OC.

Kurt Warner looks very vulnerable tonight with a banged up OL and no Marshall Faulk doesn't he? It's balance, not one great player. Look at the Vikings with Moss, the Cards with Boston and the Jets with Martin. It's not about one guy. Look at Manning, Harrison and Co. last year without E.James and a defense.

Football is a team game and Wannstedt has taken a page from Bill Belichick's Pats last year. Team first and everyone is accountable. Looking for leaders he found JT and Zach who are the teams' leaders. They talk about no paper champions and 11 wins and a playoff game means nothing. Ricky has answered that call and he's playing the best football of his life. Look at the rookie McMichael making big plays in a big spot.

This is going to be a fun year guys. Don't look for perfection, that's not the NFL reality. It's tough to win games in the NFL regardless of what's on paper. Everything plays a role in an NFL game; weather, the refs, injuries, breakdowns, the coaches, individual and team performances and even the crowd. All that has to go right, or at least most of it. Not easy.

Any coach or player will say most games are tough to win.

Posted By Mercury 22.
 

echo_bravo

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Hey, I know Mercury 22. He is the BEST poster on hearld talk. He needs to bring his discussion over to finheaven damn it.

Great post!
 

clayton83

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voice of reason....................

ok, i'll take the heat and rattle the homers. some one has to.

first off, jay is our starter right now, and i hope he succeeds. i AM NOT A JAY HATER, i am just not a blind homer and i am willing to see things as they are, not how i wish them to be. first off:

NORV is putting jay in great positions by feeding high percentage pass plays. and thats good, it moves the chains, cuts down on the mistakes, etc..... it is norv improving jays chances, not a big leap in improvement by jay.

jay threw 3 int's in the detroit game, the lions just didn't do there part and hang on to the ball. jay still threw the bad balls and got away with it. there were a couple droped int's in the colts game also and more than a few missed big plays. how would jay look now if those defenses hang on to those balls?

THAT BIG CATCH BY ORANDE against the jets sunday that everyone is so ga-ga over [good stuff by big o, no doubt] was a huge mistake by jay that almost was a game turner. if you look at that play, jay threw way inside of oronde, #25 furgason, the jets safety is running up and starting to outstretch his hands because the int is coming right at him. oronde lays out and that ball sticks in his mit and the rest is history. but i will bet if you were to sit down with oronde over a beer and ask him, he would tell you he was mainly trying to keep it out of the jet safety's hands. jay threw a horrible pass and again got away with one. thank you oronde.

JAY is missing huge plays in the deep game. overthrowing wide open big plays. this is nothing new, he did the same thing under chan. i think it was ckparrot who posted the article from one of the sports writers about how jays weeknesses were going to start coming into play when we start playing real defenses, how jay was not hitting the deep plays, in a sense, crippling a big part of norv's game plan.

i said that same thing a week ago in one of the hall of fame jay threads that were going on. i said by week 5, this would be an issue and the coaching staff would be publiclly hinting at such.

it is already starting. did anyone see any of the espn pre game show? they were saying how norv had told them about how important it was to establish the run and intermidiate passes to the te's and fb SO THEN THE BIG PASS PLAY DOWN FIELD OPENS UP!! hint-hint. those have been there and jay has miss fired badly.

this is going to catch up with us. bill billichek already sees this, as i am sure the bills and broncos have to.

jay IS NOT doing a good job of seeing his option guy on routes. norves offense always has one to 2 options on every pass play and if the primary guy is there, jay has been ok. but he has had problems when the primary has not been open and there is a little pressure. if the primary guy is not open and jay's run option is closed off, he breaks down.

we have lived off of ricky. and i hope we can keep it up. can jay beat teams if ricky is shut down? i don't think so and i know there are a number of teams on our scedule that feel that way to.

oronde and chambers are suffering because of jays inability to hit the big deep play, and it is going to hinder norv's offense as the season goes on. i can't say how many times on replay that jay has hit the easy dump off guy and chambers or gadsden is open over the top.

if jay can learn to CONSISTANTLY hit those, it will be damn hard for teams to game plan us. but i promise, , you are going to see teams stop our run and jam the shrt stuff and make jay beat them deep.

we will see if hall of fame jay is up to the task!!

__________________________________________________

RUN RICKY RUN!!!
 

Penthos

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Being a former and still occasional poster on the Herald board (this board is much better) I can tell you in no uncertain terms Mercury 22 is no homer...

And as I will point out again, the results of the game vs the results of the prediction thread shows that most of us are not homers...

Weren't you the 1 Dolphins fan in week 3 who predicted a Dolphin loss. Not just a loss but by a significant number of points, 20 to be exact. Considering all the weapons we have I amazed anyone would make that prediction...
 

Baz

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First off, Oronde slowed down on his route during that catch. Sports Center showed it and NFL Primetime showed it.

Second, do you know how many QBs have INTs that are dropped? Thats right, ALL of them. Picking a ball off is one of the hardest things to do. As a D-back, your first responsibility is to stay with the WR, then you knock the ball down. If you a decent chance at picking it off, then you try it, but that isn't the most important thing. That said, every D-back in the league drops INTs, and every QB in the league throws "should be" INTs. Its unfair to point out these happening to Jay, when they happen to every QB in every league in the world.

Go to profootballtalk. They talk about the WRs not getting seperation. That certainly has to help with our lagging passing game. Its not completely Jay's fault. However, I'm not abolishing Jay of blame either. Just saying its both, along with dropped passes.

What was with the hint-hint when talking about opening up the big pass play? Evey team has to open it up, it isn't just there. you have to runt he ball and make the short passes, so the safeties come up to stop the run or stop the intermediate pass. That leave the WR one-on-one with a corner. The Rams do it, the Colts do it, the Patriots do it, even the Lions do it. This fact has nothing to do with Jay.

That thing about Jay not reading his options is just plain wrong. I saw a pregame show actually go into how Jay has improved, and they SHOWED him looking at his reads. I was impressed.

While Norv is responsible for some of Jay's success, please give him credit for what he is doing. Remember last season? The last half of the season with only like 3 INTs. That was with Chan. Did Norv have anything to do with that? I don't see why it is so hard to acknowledge Jay being a pretty good QB, especially when is 2nd in the NFL in QB rating......
 

TexPhinPhan

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Re: the great Orande catch

If you watch the replays of that catch you will see that Orande had cut off his route i.e. stopped running. He then had to quickly get to the spot where the ball was thrown.

Unlike Chan's offense, where the QB thows to players, Norv's offense is designed for the QB to throw to spots. It is about timing.

Now I do not know what Orande saw to make him cut off his route. I do know he was not sitting in a soft spot of a zone, in light of the defender standing next to him. I do think, however, that it is innacurate to say that if the ball had been intercepted, it would have been Fiedler's fault. As with most things, answers are seldom that simple. It may have been, I just don't think that the fan watching on TV who does not know what route was called, is in a position to make that determination. (If it had been picked, it would have sucked no matter whose fault it was.)

No matter how you slice or dice it, jay has had a very good start of the season.

TexPhinPhan
 

Merman

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This must be the third time or more I've seen reference to phantom picks. If you are going to do that you should also start keeping track of the phantom receptions and TDs.

The OG catch could also be argued that he stopped his route which was
clearly evident.

As for the long passing game, why should that be called as often when the game plan is to control the game?? Granted it will come into play and we will see what happens. Maybe not this week with JF's finger hurting.
 

rhadaddy

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"we have lived off of ricky. and i hope we can keep it up. can jay beat teams if ricky is shut down? i don't think so and i know there are a number of teams on our schedule that feel that way to."

Hey I agree with most of your post but, you must've not been paying attention to last year. Lamar didn't do **** all year and Jay had to make plays... (We went 11-5 with a non existing rushing game) Yes ricky is a huge difference, but dont underestimate the power of Jay tucking the ball and running when he has to it's always been difficult for defenses to compensate for a scrambling qb.. I've seen jay over throw some of the most wide open recievers and it disgusts me, however I wouldn't be suprised if he started hitting those long plays.. I definelty see him making smarter decisions and not forcing the ball as often as he used to. btw, you also forget that this is a 22 man effort, so talking about Jay's errant passes and Orande's spectacular catch, that's irrelevant becasue recievers are paid to make plays... You could also say Jay could've had two more int's from Orande droping two "bullseye" passes in the last two weeks, ..(the first one even orande's mom dissed him about that drop.) everyone is gonna make mistakes from time to time, however the we're making far less mistakes right now.

Case in point... we're 3-0 in a new offensive system with a new OC, so quite frankly the offense is still a very "young" work in progress and the offense is nowhere close to peaking... which should be scary to alot of DC's even Bellicheck
 

SuperMarksBros.

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Originally posted by clayton83
we have lived off of ricky. and i hope we can keep it up. can jay beat teams if ricky is shut down? i don't think so and i know there are a number of teams on our scedule that feel that way to.
jay had the highest 4th quarter qb rating in the league last year in leading miami to 6(count them, 6!!) 4th quarter comeback wins w/o the benefit of a running game. i'm sure teams have taken note of that, even if you havent clayton. jay makes mistakes, and i'll accept that because nobody wants the ball more at the end of the game. who can forget mcknight(i think) trying to carry him off the field vs oakland last year after he took that brutal shot. fiedler pushed said WR off of him and proceeded to drive down the field on the same D that gave up nothing all day. the guy's all heart, and succeeds despite constant comparisons to marino. the next qb after danny golden arm was set up to fail, was given no chance. all he's done is win 25 games over the past 2 seasons, best amongst all nfl starters including warner(regardless of fiedler haters misconceptions)...give the guy a break. he has the 2nd highest qb rating in the league and his offense scores seemingly everytime they have the ball. , this is his time in the sun.
 

Baz

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Honestly, I don't see the necessity to try to make Fielder look bad. He isn't Dan Marino, so what. He is running an "offensive powerhouse"(cbs sportsline). What more do you want him to do? Throw 50 TDs? Throw for 6,000 yards? Throw 0 INTs, with balls going nowhere near a defender? Change his number to 13, would that make you feel better? Just be happy we have a good O and D, and we're 3-0......
 

iceblizzard69

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Re: voice of reason....................

Originally posted by clayton83

jay threw 3 int's in the detroit game, the lions just didn't do there part and hang on to the ball. jay still threw the bad balls and got away with it. there were a couple droped int's in the colts game also and more than a few missed big plays. how would jay look now if those defenses hang on to those balls?
An interception is when a defender CATCHES the ball when its in the air. If he drops it, then it isn't an interception. Jay did not throw an interception against Detroit, and he has thrown one so far this season. Most potential interceptions are dropped.
 

baccarat

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If you want all those drop balls considered INTs, then you should consider the Colts game a loss and give James an extra TD. Since James almost had a TD at the goaline stand.
 

Merman

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Re: voice of reason....................

Originally posted by clayton83
ok, i'll take the heat and rattle the homers. some one has to.
RUN RICKY RUN!!!
Looks like nothing but homers here today. :lol:
 

ohall

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Errrrr, lol

... seems to me if you are a Dolphins fan you are a Jay supporter. Anything else defies the term "Dolphins fan", no?

Oliver...


Originally posted by clayton83
ok, i'll take the heat and rattle the homers. some one has to.

first off, jay is our starter right now, and i hope he succeeds. i AM NOT A JAY HATER, i am just not a blind homer and i am willing to see things as they are, not how i wish them to be. first off:

NORV is putting jay in great positions by feeding high percentage pass plays. and thats good, it moves the chains, cuts down on the mistakes, etc..... it is norv improving jays chances, not a big leap in improvement by jay.

jay threw 3 int's in the detroit game, the lions just didn't do there part and hang on to the ball. jay still threw the bad balls and got away with it. there were a couple droped int's in the colts game also and more than a few missed big plays. how would jay look now if those defenses hang on to those balls?

THAT BIG CATCH BY ORANDE against the jets sunday that everyone is so ga-ga over [good stuff by big o, no doubt] was a huge mistake by jay that almost was a game turner. if you look at that play, jay threw way inside of oronde, #25 furgason, the jets safety is running up and starting to outstretch his hands because the int is coming right at him. oronde lays out and that ball sticks in his mit and the rest is history. but i will bet if you were to sit down with oronde over a beer and ask him, he would tell you he was mainly trying to keep it out of the jet safety's hands. jay threw a horrible pass and again got away with one. thank you oronde.

JAY is missing huge plays in the deep game. overthrowing wide open big plays. this is nothing new, he did the same thing under chan. i think it was ckparrot who posted the article from one of the sports writers about how jays weeknesses were going to start coming into play when we start playing real defenses, how jay was not hitting the deep plays, in a sense, crippling a big part of norv's game plan.

i said that same thing a week ago in one of the hall of fame jay threads that were going on. i said by week 5, this would be an issue and the coaching staff would be publiclly hinting at such.

it is already starting. did anyone see any of the espn pre game show? they were saying how norv had told them about how important it was to establish the run and intermidiate passes to the te's and fb SO THEN THE BIG PASS PLAY DOWN FIELD OPENS UP!! hint-hint. those have been there and jay has miss fired badly.

this is going to catch up with us. bill billichek already sees this, as i am sure the bills and broncos have to.

jay IS NOT doing a good job of seeing his option guy on routes. norves offense always has one to 2 options on every pass play and if the primary guy is there, jay has been ok. but he has had problems when the primary has not been open and there is a little pressure. if the primary guy is not open and jay's run option is closed off, he breaks down.

we have lived off of ricky. and i hope we can keep it up. can jay beat teams if ricky is shut down? i don't think so and i know there are a number of teams on our scedule that feel that way to.

oronde and chambers are suffering because of jays inability to hit the big deep play, and it is going to hinder norv's offense as the season goes on. i can't say how many times on replay that jay has hit the easy dump off guy and chambers or gadsden is open over the top.

if jay can learn to CONSISTANTLY hit those, it will be damn hard for teams to game plan us. but i promise, , you are going to see teams stop our run and jam the shrt stuff and make jay beat them deep.

we will see if hall of fame jay is up to the task!!

__________________________________________________

RUN RICKY RUN!!!
 
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