Film Room: Josh Rosen’s 1st Pro Start

BlueFin

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To be fair, the OP was referencing his first game only.
Indeed, and the point was when he had a relatively healthy O-line, (which isn’t even technically accurate as one starter went out before the season even started)......he played at a pretty good level for a rookie starting his first game or two... it was after when his O-line was a disaster... his OC was replaced by a rookie OC...that everything went south.

So my premise was... throw out everything after that and give the guy a chance...he displayed big time talent.

I have to wonder how he’d be viewed had his receivers not dropped 5 big balls that likely would have routed Seattle as the film room clearly shows?
 

mrbunglez

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I’m as eager to see how Rosen does with this team as much as anyone. But I’m going to take what everyone says about him, including his teammates, with a grain of salt. I fell for it with Tannehill, not this time. I got smarter in my old age.;)
 

BSQ

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You are 100% right Adam, he had a ton of help from Earl Morrell and friends! But, Griese came back as you well know and made it to the Super Bowl and then won it. Griese also had Paul Warfield, Larry Czonka, Jim Kiick, Mercury Morris and an amazing oline so all in all it was a powerful offense. I wish we were half that powerful now.
 

BSQ

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Casserly puts Rosen right there with Stafford. The Dolphins haven't had a Stafford level QB since Marino.
 

39wildman

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Casserly puts Rosen right there with Stafford. The Dolphins haven't had a Stafford level QB since Marino.
anybody can talk on espn. they are not under pressure to make it work out
 

Awsi Dooger

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You might want to check Bobbys stats.

His completion %?
His attemps per yr?
Yds per att?

He wasn't that good.

Would not be in the HOF, if he played today.

Sorry, not meant as an insult, but your opinion is biased.
Bob Griese was a phenomenal player, the best quarterback the Dolphins have ever had.

I feel sorry for the stats-obsessed types who don't understand that. I value stats as much as anybody but to ignore how the game has changed from then to now is laughable, and most people do it in reverse.

That is what you are doing. You are assigning those numbers as Griese's base level and assuming it would attach identically today. That is classic ignorance. He was super sharp and incredibly athletic. That type would benefit more from today's cupcake rules changes, not less. Griese could dip and dodge to create throwing lanes. He had ideal timing and touch along with guile to detour ball hawking safeties. He was incredibly patient. That in itself would enable him to thrive against the restricted defenses of today.

The preposterous adjustments are the ones that take Marino's '80s level and throw it upwards 20% to 30% today. I have zero respect for that type. It assumes the other team never has the ball. When you take the numbers proposed they make no sense whatsoever unless the clock never runs or the game is extended to 80 minutes.

The reality is that sharp quarterbacks like Starr or Griese or Staubach, etc. would benefit immensely from current rules and application of them. I have to laugh every time it is proposed that Marino played in a difficult era for quarterbacks. The most significant rules changes to benefit the passing game happened in 1974, and then especially 1978. Prior to that it was like a free for all on quarterbacks and wide receivers. I've mentioned countless times how Dolphin cornerbacks Curtis Johnson and Tim Foley would play press coverage, but it wasn't press at all. They would intentionally and immediately cut out the legs of wide receivers at the line of scrimmage, especially the leggy ones. It was like a college chop block. That's what quarterbacks often would deal with. They would drop back and the primary target was already eliminated and laying on the ground, struggling to get to his feet like a boxer after a knock down. I laughed like heck in the stands. It never dawned on me that we'd have fans 40+ years later trying to pretend that the cupcake league of their era was identical and quarterbacks of both time frames should be judged by same numbers.

Starr was already gone by 1978. Griese and Staubach were at the tail end of their careers. They never enjoyed conditions remotely similar to what Dan Marino did, let alone what we've seen from 2004 forth.
 

BlueFin

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Griese was my childhood hero, but he didn't lead them to a 17-0 record.
6-0 to start the season before he got hurt... was brought back in the 2nd half of the AFC championship game... at the Pittsburgh Steelers... where we were losing.... and led the comeback win....completed 73% of his passes in Super Bowl 7.... the perfect season doesn’t happen without Bob Griese.
 

AdamD13

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6-0 to start the season before he got hurt... was brought back in the 2nd half of the AFC championship game... at the Pittsburgh Steelers... where we were losing.... and led the comeback win....completed 73% of his passes in Super Bowl 7.... the perfect season doesn’t happen without Bob Griese.
I'm not bashing Griese, he truly was my childhood hero. I was dealing in facts and you are dealing in pure speculation Miami wouldn't have gone 17-0 without him.

The Dolphins started out the season 4-0 under Griese and Bob was actually hurt early in the 5th game. Earl Morrall led Miami to victory that day throwing 2 TD passes against SD. And seeing how Miami's defense only gave up 10, 13, 14 and 17 points the first 4 games there is a very real possibility Miami goes undefeated without Griese all other things being equal. Miami scored 20+ on Morrall's the 12 games he played the majority (including playoffs) with the exception of the final regular season game (16-0 win over Colts). Whereas 2 out of the 5 games when Griese played the majority of the game the Dolphins scored less than 20 points (16 vs. Minn and 14 vs. Redskins).

LOL, you made the second half comeback against Pittsburgh sound dramatic, but it wasn't that dramatic. Griese started the second half after the game was tied at halftime 7-7 and the Steelers took a 10-7 lead to start the 3rd quarter. Griese hit Warfield on a slant (a beautiful pass into traffic) who then had 40+ in RAC for a 52 yard completion. The rest of the game Griese completed 2 more passes for 18 yards. That game was won like the Dolphins won nearly all their games that year, rushing the ball and unbelievable defense under Bill Arnsparger.

And I am very confident Miami beats the Redskins regardless of who is QB all other things being equal, other than Garo Yepremian whose interception not only led to the only score the Redskins had but if I recall correctly would be the only time the Redskins had the ball on Miami's side of the 50 yard line. Greise also only threw for only 88 yards, one TD and one interception to go with that 73% completion.

BTW the Dolphins had three second half comebacks under Morrall that year including the week before in Cleveland in the 4th quarter. And Earl was 1st team AP All Pro that year. Morrall had a 91 QB rating compared to Griese having a 71.6 QB rating in 1972.

Again not knocking Griese and he truly was my childhood hero. He was a part of the story but to say Miami doesn't go undefeated is pure speculation on your part as they went 12-0 under Morrall and the Dolphins defense gave up only 10, 13, 14, 17 and 7 points in games under Griese. Or to claim that Griese led Miami to a 17-0 season as the person I originally responded to had stated is an argument against reality and an argument against reality loses 100% of the time.

Bottom line the Dolphins under Shula and defense under Arnsparger were truly a great "team" whether Griese or Morrall were the QB.
 

BlueFin

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I'm not bashing Griese, he truly was my childhood hero. I was dealing in facts and you are dealing in pure speculation Miami wouldn't have gone 17-0 without him.

The Dolphins started out the season 4-0 under Griese and Bob was actually hurt early in the 5th game. Earl Morrall led Miami to victory that day throwing 2 TD passes against SD. And seeing how Miami's defense only gave up 10, 13, 14 and 17 points the first 4 games there is a very real possibility Miami goes undefeated without Griese all other things being equal. Miami scored 20+ on Morrall's the 12 games he played the majority (including playoffs) with the exception of the final regular season game (16-0 win over Colts). Whereas 2 out of the 5 games when Griese played the majority of the game the Dolphins scored less than 20 points (16 vs. Minn and 14 vs. Redskins).

LOL, you made the second half comeback against Pittsburgh sound dramatic, but it wasn't that dramatic. Griese started the second half after the game was tied at halftime 7-7 and the Steelers took a 10-7 lead to start the 3rd quarter. Griese hit Warfield on a slant (a beautiful pass into traffic) who then had 40+ in RAC for a 52 yard completion. The rest of the game Griese completed 2 more passes for 18 yards. That game was won like the Dolphins won nearly all their games that year, rushing the ball and unbelievable defense under Bill Arnsparger.

And I am very confident Miami beats the Redskins regardless of who is QB all other things being equal, other than Garo Yepremian whose interception not only led to the only score the Redskins had but if I recall correctly would be the only time the Redskins had the ball on Miami's side of the 50 yard line. Greise also only threw for only 88 yards, one TD and one interception to go with that 73% completion.

BTW the Dolphins had three second half comebacks under Morrall that year including the week before in Cleveland in the 4th quarter. And Earl was 1st team AP All Pro that year. Morrall had a 91 QB rating compared to Griese having a 71.6 QB rating in 1972.

Again not knocking Griese and he truly was my childhood hero. He was a part of the story but to say Miami doesn't go undefeated is pure speculation on your part as they went 12-0 under Morrall and the Dolphins defense gave up only 10, 13, 14, 17 and 7 points in games under Griese. Or to claim that Griese led Miami to a 17-0 season as the person I originally responded to had stated is an argument against reality and an argument against reality loses 100% of the time.

Bottom line the Dolphins under Shula and defense under Arnsparger were truly a great "team" whether Griese or Morrall were the QB.
I stand corrected on the start... I was thinking it was a bit later by memory... but Shula replaced Morrall in the AFC championship game because a Morrall wasn’t getting it done and they were down 10-7 when Griese came in and led them to two touchdowns in the second half.

Griese was a hall of famer.... Morrall was not.
 

Mach2

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I stand corrected on the start... I was thinking it was a bit later by memory... but Shula replaced Morrall in the AFC championship game because a Morrall wasn’t getting it done and they were down 10-7 when Griese came in and led them to two touchdowns in the second half.

Griese was a hall of famer.... Morrall was not.
Do you believe he would be HOF caliber if he played today?

Truly great players transcend eras.

MJ, Wilt, Montana, LT, Walter Payton, Jim Brown, Marino, Gretsky, Lebron are examples of players who would have been successful in any era.

Griese is a HOFer, and deservingly so, but lets not pretend he is an "all time great".
 

BSQ

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39. that's true and most of the talking heads on ESPN are not worth listening to. There's better coverage online and in podcasts. Casserly was an actual GM so I mentioned what I heard him say. It's certainly not the gospel. I probably want it to be true!
 

BlueFin

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39. that's true and most of the talking heads on ESPN are not worth listening to. There's better coverage online and in podcasts. Casserly was an actual GM so I mentioned what I heard him say. It's certainly not the gospel. I probably want it to be true!
It sounds like Casserly was responding to the propaganda and not vetting it... I say that because Rosen’s teammates have debunked those myths....and Casserly previously praised Rosen in scouting reports.
 
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