Fins QB Room ranked 25th out of 32 Teams! | Page 13 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Fins QB Room ranked 25th out of 32 Teams!

PhinFan1968 said:
Tua has played well overall, few real stinkers really (and you can probably highlight OL woes in most of those). He's got talent, there's no denying that. But is he transcendent? Nope. IMO he's good enough to win some big games with a strong team around him, and that's fine...that's Tier 2 in the QB hierarchy...he'll generally do his job well. Its not really his fault his HC and GM are trash, and his owner is friggin' football-clueless. But it is what it is...QBs get the team's record attributed directly to them, for good and for bad. It's wrong IMO, but it's how it is.

But as a note on the analysis provided above, there's glazing in there without context. They talk about how his EPA against the Ravens and Bills were top 3 of all teams who played against them during that season. They made no mention of garbage time or airing it out to overcome a big deficit in the game, when we ALL know that's a thing and it applies. Its also relevant to look at other stats aside from EPA, for instance passing-yards-per-game-allowed for a defense.

Tua's yards against Buffalo as referenced above was top 3 EPA, but Buffalo was 24th in yards given up per game, through the air, a mere 30 yards-per-game from last place. And the 2023 Ravens? 31st in yards per game given up through the air. I don't consider any defense that ranks in the mid-20s to 30s in air YPG given up, elite, but that's just me. Additionally, points-per-game is worth a side consideration. The Ravens were 1 better, and the Bills were 1 worse, than the Dolphins defense in that stat...and in those those games mentioned as highlights for Tua that year, the Dolphins scored below those teams' average PPG against...even with Tua having a high EPA. They also scored below their own average in points, in those games...with all the extra yards included...by 9 and 10 points. I'm not trying to take anything away from him, but the results are the results.

Would all these EPA stats lead to the conclusion Tua was held back by the rest of the offense? I can see that argument. But at the end of the day, they flopped cold in both those games, both of which were crucial to their season and playoff expectations.

Like I've said tons of times...a healthy Tua is a very good QB. Top 10 QB IMO. When he's getting banged around and recovering from injuries, playing through dings, etc, he falls off noticeably, particularly in accuracy, and he can't survive without high level accuracy. And with his propensity to get dinged up or flat knocked out of games, he's not a franchise QB...IMO. Can't trust him, but he's our guy until he's not, so I'll pull for him to ball out every week, and pray he can remove the boneheaded plays from his book.
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brilliant post..

I will say thing I think thats missed is .. well people lump qbs into 1 basket. but its not that simple, I think it depends what sorta team you plan to build.
if your a run heavy team you aint taking joe burrow or tua.

that being said if your making a passin offense , well main focus on passing onllly qb i am takin over Tua is burrow (this is jsut on talent ofc)

but the main point i agree with is that last part, in end his talent to pass has never and will never be the issue (regardless of dumb takes people have to it)
his ablity to be clutch and extend plays is there.. we have seen it not an issue..

isssueeee is, which we never helped he gets a season ending injury just driving over a speed bump, his availability is the sole reason you cannot build a franchise around him.. its that simple, and for this reason when times right contract wise we need to move on
 
Avigatorx said:
Will he?

We thought similar things about Marino.

It takes more than QB to win Superbowl.
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Big difference in HCs, IMO. KC has a legend, Buffalo has a strong HC, but is he strong enough?

Only one way to find out. He could be a guy that needs extra years, like the KC HC, to get over the hump, even after many very good years prior to. I'd say he has a far better shot at it than our McD does.
 
danmarino7051 said:
Hell, put any QB on this team and they don’t win a SB. Brady couldn’t win anything without even an average defense, for example. In NE, he had 2 defenses ranked less than average. Read that again… in only two seasons did Brady ever play with a defense ranked less than 15th. He only played with a defense ranked out of the top 10 THREE times. In one season with a below average defense, the Pats failed to make the playoffs, and the other time the Pats lost in the WC round.
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Brady was great, Brady elevated everyone games, that’s why the won 7 superbowls

He made them practice harder on the field, on their own, he demanded respect and if you were gonna be a patriot, damn strait you were gonna get in line. He was a great leader, great ****ing leader

He went to superbowls and won without Randy mosses of the world
 
PhinFan1968 said:
Tua has played well overall, few real stinkers really (and you can probably highlight OL woes in most of those). He's got talent, there's no denying that. But is he transcendent? Nope. IMO he's good enough to win some big games with a strong team around him, and that's fine...that's Tier 2 in the QB hierarchy...he'll generally do his job well. Its not really his fault his HC and GM are trash, and his owner is friggin' football-clueless. But it is what it is...QBs get the team's record attributed directly to them, for good and for bad. It's wrong IMO, but it's how it is.

But as a note on the analysis provided above, there's glazing in there without context. They talk about how his EPA against the Ravens and Bills were top 3 of all teams who played against them during that season. They made no mention of garbage time or airing it out to overcome a big deficit in the game, when we ALL know that's a thing and it applies. Its also relevant to look at other stats aside from EPA, for instance passing-yards-per-game-allowed for a defense.

Tua's yards against Buffalo as referenced above was top 3 EPA, but Buffalo was 24th in yards given up per game, through the air, a mere 30 yards-per-game from last place. And the 2023 Ravens? 31st in yards per game given up through the air. I don't consider any defense that ranks in the mid-20s to 30s in air YPG given up, elite, but that's just me. Additionally, points-per-game is worth a side consideration. The Ravens were 1 better, and the Bills were 1 worse, than the Dolphins defense in that stat...and in those those games mentioned as highlights for Tua that year, the Dolphins scored below those teams' average PPG against...even with Tua having a high EPA. They also scored below their own average in points, in those games...with all the extra yards included...by 9 and 10 points. I'm not trying to take anything away from him, but the results are the results.

Would all these EPA stats lead to the conclusion Tua was held back by the rest of the offense? I can see that argument. But at the end of the day, they flopped cold in both those games, both of which were crucial to their season and playoff expectations.

Like I've said tons of times...a healthy Tua is a very good QB. Top 10 QB IMO. When he's getting banged around and recovering from injuries, playing through dings, etc, he falls off noticeably, particularly in accuracy, and he can't survive without high level accuracy. And with his propensity to get dinged up or flat knocked out of games, he's not a franchise QB...IMO. Can't trust him, but he's our guy until he's not, so I'll pull for him to ball out every week, and pray he can remove the boneheaded plays from his book.
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Combine all that with his own admission that it’s time to enjoy the fruits of his labor and Not be so football centric in the offseason and that’s the Qb you get for 250 mill
 
djphinfan said:
Brady was great, Brady elevated everyone games, that’s why the won 7 superbowls

He made them practice harder on the field, on their own, he demanded respect and if you were gonna be a patriot, damn strait you were gonna get in line. He was a great leader, great ****ing leader

He went to superbowls and won without Randy mosses of the world
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He was definitely great, but people tend to forget that they went 10 straight years, right in the middle of his prime, never winning a SB. In fact, he choked a lot of wins away, like the rest of the team.
 
danmarino7051 said:
He was definitely great, but people tend to forget that they went 10 straight years, right in the middle of his prime, never winning a SB. In fact, he choked a lot of wins away, like the rest of the team.
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lol o goodness

He won 7 Super Bowl and appeared in 10

Dano you officially have lost it imo, I’m sorry bud

But a comment about Brady choking with 7 rings and 10 Super Bowl appearances in his career and the work and games that have to be won to accomplish those feats shows a complete and utter bias with no ability to give credit where credit is due
 
danmarino7051 said:
He was definitely great, but people tend to forget that they went 10 straight years, right in the middle of his prime, never winning a SB. In fact, he choked a lot of wins away, like the rest of the team.
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And again...99% of Dolphins fans would take that in a heartbeat.
 
PhinFan1968 said:
And again...99% of Dolphins fans would take that in a heartbeat.
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Of course. None of that changes any of the facts I wrote. And if Brady (arguably the GOAT) couldn’t do anything with a below average defense (ie team) why should we expect other QB’s to do it?
 
djphinfan said:
lol o goodness

He won 7 Super Bowl and appeared in 10

Dano you officially have lost it imo, I’m sorry bud

But a comment about Brady choking with 7 rings and 10 Super Bowl appearances in his career and the work and games that have to be won to accomplish those feats shows a complete and utter bias with no ability to give credit where credit is due
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No one is saying Brady isn’t good. I give him all the credit in the world. However, I don’t expect any player to spend entire 20’s, 30’s, and nearly all of their 40’s playing football nor do I expect them to throw their family in the trash for football like he did.

I’m pointing out that he, too, choked sometimes and failed to live up to his greatness at times.
 
danmarino7051 said:
No one is saying Brady isn’t good. I give him all the credit in the world. However, I don’t expect any player to spend entire 20’s, 30’s, and nearly all of their 40’s playing football nor do I expect them to throw their family in the trash for football like he did.

I’m pointing out that he, too, choked sometimes and failed to live up to his greatness at times.
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No you dont bud, any credit you give comes with bias and caveats with no real context relative to others.

Any mess ups can easily be attributed to attrition and longevity relative to normal careers

He was the best, like all humans had some flaws, but one of the best leaders of all time and a ridiculous record and champion
 
djphinfan said:
No you dont bud, any credit you give comes with bias and caveats with no real context relative to others.

Any mess ups can easily be attributed to attrition and longevity relative to normal careers

He was the best, like all humans had some flaws, but one of the best leaders of all time and a ridiculous record and champion
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I wrote he’s arguably the GOAT. He’s also played poorly and choked and threw everything in his life away unless it had to do with football. Which is his right. I said I wouldn’t expect any player to sacrifice their family and life like he did. He’s arguably the GOAT who threw his family in the trash and choked his fair share of times.
 
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