Former NFL quarterback on Tua Tagovailoa not knowing playbook: ‘That should never, ever happen’ | Page 28 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Former NFL quarterback on Tua Tagovailoa not knowing playbook: ‘That should never, ever happen’

bdizzle00

Club Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
404
Reaction score
396
Did I expect a rookie coming off a devastating injury, no offseason, a bottom 5 pass blocking win rate Oline, no run game, and the worst remaining receiving core in the league to not play great?

Why yes, yes I did.

And you can search my posts for examples of me saying that the team would take a step back starting Tua over Fitz if you decide you need proof.

Like I said, it's not Tua's fault that your expectations were too high.
And what you saw against Arizona and San Diego did not excite you and increase what your expectations of him were moving forward because he looked healthy and he was playing well? Ok.

And yes, I guess my expectation that Tua would not be one of the worst QBs in the league over the last 6 games was obviously too high.
 
Last edited:

Kamelion4291

Starter
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
3,721
Reaction score
5,055
And what you saw against Arizona and San Diego did not excite you and increase what your expectations of him were moving forward because he looked healthy and he was playing well? Ok.

And yes, I guess my expectation that Tua would not be one of the worst QBs in the league over the last 6 games was obviously too high.
Once again, he was in a bottom 5 situation with his system around him. If your expectations were that a rookie QB should have pulled a bottom 5 offensive supporting cast above that level, that's your problem, not his.

That should never be the expectation for a rookie QB... ever.
 

lurking

Club Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
10,631
Reaction score
11,484
You're right, Fitz had better QB stats than Tua in almost all categories... And I get that people dont want to give Tua credit for his winning record and I understand that 100%. There are 2 things where Tua was very good in his rookie season: INT% and L%... And they're both related as they're the reason the team pulled Fitz for him.

The Fins simply didnt have the offense to try and outscore teams last year, they had to rely on their D to make plays and the offense to just bank on those, AND not **** up in the meantime. In other words, the Fins dont win 10 games this year if the offense is throwing an INT every 33 pass attempts. Which is the rate Fitz was throwing INTs vs the weak part of the schedule. 3-3. Tua comes in and cuts the INT rate in half and what do you know... 6-3.

Fitz had better stats, the offense moved better and he had a beard... But truth is, all the Fins needed this season was the offense to not **** up too often which is the ONE thing you simply cant ask Fitz. They didnt put Tua in to score more, they put him in to **** up less. Im not sure thats the right way to bring a rookie QB along, but he certainly didnt fail at what they asked of him specifically.
Tua hadn’t played a down yet, so how would they know that he would **** up less.
 
Last edited:

danstilldaman

Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
1,200
Two hadn’t played it down yet how would they know that he would **** up

Tua hadn’t played a down yet, so how would they know that he would **** up less.
There's honestly no true way to know that. However, from what Flores has proven in the short time that he's been our coach is that he's going to do what's best for the team. And they did get to see him a lot in practice everyday, and this year being so crazy with covid most practices were closed a lot more than what it normally would have been. So we didn't get near the amount of reports that we typically would from people that follow the team. I don't disagree with either one of your guys' stances but I do believe that Flores saw something in practice that made him want to get Tua on the field.
 

lurking

Club Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
10,631
Reaction score
11,484
So he would've been worse earlier due to not being physically and mentally ready, but it's in your opinion that he WAS physically and mentally ready once he started and therefore why you claim that he "under performed"?

THAT sounds like a stretch.
Not sure they would’ve put him in if he wasn’t mentally or physically ready
 

rafael

Hall Of Famer
Club Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Messages
7,193
Reaction score
1,572
Location
Sparks, NV
IMO there's a difference between being 100% to participate in all activities and being at 100% of your strength, stamina, etc. In the hospital we clear people all the time to return to work. They are 100% cleared. But it still takes them time to reach their "normal". And in terms of the playbook, I believe that Tua is a guy that learns through reps. I don't get the impression he's book smart. Dilfer called him a one rep guy. He didn't call him a book smart genius. I said before the draft that I thought Tua had a much higher football IQ than Herbert, but that Herbert was probably a smarter person. For my football team, I prefer the guy with the higher football IQ. But realistically a year where most of the learning was remote, that would favor the book smart guy, more than the rep guy.
 

bdizzle00

Club Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
404
Reaction score
396
Once again, he was in a bottom 5 situation with his system around him. If your expectations were that a rookie QB should have pulled a bottom 5 offensive supporting cast above that level, that's your problem, not his.

That should never be the expectation for a rookie QB... ever.
Bottom 5 or not is debatable, but regardless, wasn't he in the same situation with the same surrounding talent against Arizona and San Diego? He seemed to do just fine elevating his team in those games.

So why the drop off from his second and third games as a starter? The roster was pretty much the same in 5 of the 6 other games, and if we were missing anyone, they were "bottom 5" type losses and shouldn't have been a big deal. Do you think teams had a little tape on him? Do you think it was fatigue from him not being fully recovered? Do you think it was normal rookie inconsistency?

All I know is that I was excited as hell after Arizona and LA, and the Tua I saw over the next 6 games was not the same Tua in those 2, and his surrounding cast didn't change much. But my ultimate point was that the Arizona and LA games excited me and set my expectations for the rest of the year because he looked so good.
 

Kamelion4291

Starter
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
3,721
Reaction score
5,055
Bottom 5 or not is debatable, but regardless, wasn't he in the same situation with the same surrounding talent against Arizona and San Diego? He seemed to do just fine elevating his team in those games.

So why the drop off from his second and third games as a starter? The roster was pretty much the same in 5 of the 6 other games, and if we were missing anyone, they were "bottom 5" type losses and shouldn't have been a big deal. Do you think teams had a little tape on him? Do you think it was fatigue from him not being fully recovered? Do you think it was normal rookie inconsistency?

All I know is that I was excited as hell after Arizona and LA, and the Tua I saw over the next 6 games was not the same Tua in those 2, and his surrounding cast didn't change much. But my ultimate point was that the Arizona and LA games excited me and set my expectations for the rest of the year because he looked so good.
Arizona was Preston William's last game.

I feel like you didn't watch last season at all the way you talk about it.
 

bdizzle00

Club Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
404
Reaction score
396
Arizona was Preston William's last game.

I feel like you didn't watch last season at all the way you talk about it.
Preston Williams? That's the loss you are pointing to that made Tua play the way he did? If the team had such bottom 5 talent, why would losing him or anyone for that matter cause such a difference in QB play? And why did Tua play great the very next game without him?

C'mon man, is it just that hard to say he didn't play well after those 2 games? He showed flashes.
 

circumstances

I'm Coming Out of the Boooooth!
Club Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
12,904
Reaction score
19,909
Preston Williams? That's the loss you are pointing to that made Tua play the way he did? If the team had such bottom 5 talent, why would losing him or anyone for that matter cause such a difference in QB play? And why did Tua play great the very next game without him?

C'mon man, is it just that hard to say he didn't play well after those 2 games? He showed flashes.
I don't know if anybody is calling our group last year bottom 5 when parker, preston, Gesicki, gaskin, were all healthy and on the field.

It was the bowden or grant-led groups as the season wore on that were some of the worst offensive casts of characters in the league.
 

bdizzle00

Club Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
404
Reaction score
396
I don't know if anybody is calling our group last year bottom 5 when parker, preston, Gesicki, gaskin, were all healthy and on the field.

It was the bowden or grant-led groups as the season wore on that were some of the worst offensive casts of characters in the league.
I agree 100%, and that applied to 2 games where most of them didn't play, the NE game and the Raider game. Both wins by the way. Against NE, Tua was horrible, against the Raiders, Tua went 17/24 with a QB rating of 99, pretty good (albeit he just threw for 94 yards), then Fitzpatrick came in and went 9/13 for 182 with the same "bottom 5" cast of characters. Against Denver, Fitz came in and moved the ball down the field throwing for more yards and completions in 1 quarter than Tua did in the entire 3 he played with the same cast of characters.

Preston Williams is not a difference maker. He didn't have Preston Williams when he threw for 316 against KC, he didn't have Williams when he threw for 296 against Cinci, and he didn't have Williams OR Gaskin when he threw for 169 and 2 TDs with a rating of 106 against the Chargers.

Tua deserves a pass for being wildly inconsistent because he was a rookie and probably for having an offensive coach that designed most of the offensive schemes for Fitz, also once teams had some game tape on him they better figured him out, not because of his health or recovery (if that was the case why were his best 2 games his second and third start?), or a lack of talent around him, or climate change or whatever. I simply don't understand why it's so hard for some to just say he needs to play better. I think he can and will.
 

circumstances

I'm Coming Out of the Boooooth!
Club Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
12,904
Reaction score
19,909
I agree 100%, and that applied to 2 games where most of them didn't play, the NE game and the Raider game. Both wins by the way. Against NE, Tua was horrible, against the Raiders, Tua went 17/24 with a QB rating of 99, pretty good (albeit he just threw for 94 yards), then Fitzpatrick came in and went 9/13 for 182 with the same "bottom 5" cast of characters. Against Denver, Fitz came in and moved the ball down the field throwing for more yards and completions in 1 quarter than Tua did in the entire 3 he played with the same cast of characters.

Preston Williams is not a difference maker. He didn't have Preston Williams when he threw for 316 against KC, he didn't have Williams when he threw for 296 against Cinci, and he didn't have Williams OR Gaskin when he threw for 169 and 2 TDs with a rating of 106 against the Chargers.

Tua deserves a pass for being wildly inconsistent because he was a rookie and probably for having an offensive coach that designed most of the offensive schemes for Fitz, also once teams had some game tape on him they better figured him out, not because of his health or recovery (if that was the case why were his best 2 games his second and third start?), or a lack of talent around him, or climate change or whatever. I simply don't understand why it's so hard for some to just say he needs to play better. I think he can and will.
i've never said that. he definitely needs to play better.

i've postulated that he wore down as the season wore on (drastically).

no football prep, no training camp, just hip rehab, there wasn't much in the tank for him football-wise in 2020.

tua to preston for 4 catches for 60 yards and a TD in a bit more than one quarter against AZ, then losing preston for the year, have a lot of us thinking about "what might have been."
 

Mach2

Club Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
11,766
Reaction score
21,424
Age
57
Location
Boynton Bch, Fl
i've never said that. he definitely needs to play better.

i've postulated that he wore down as the season wore on (drastically).

no football prep, no training camp, just hip rehab, there wasn't much in the tank for him football-wise in 2020.

tua to preston for 4 catches for 60 yards and a TD in a bit more than one quarter against AZ, then losing preston for the year, have a lot of us thinking about "what might have been."
You have to admit, It's a pretty small sample size to draw any concrete conclusions.

I will say one thing about PW that doesn't show up in the stat line. He seemed to draw a lot of DPI/holding calls.

That tells me he had his man beat (often early), and they knew it.
 

circumstances

I'm Coming Out of the Boooooth!
Club Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
12,904
Reaction score
19,909
You have to admit, It's a pretty small sample size to draw any concrete conclusions.

I will say one thing about PW that doesn't show up in the stat line. He seemed to draw a lot of DPI/holding calls.

That tells me he had his man beat (often early), and they knew it.
I did see that on one stat site.

Drawing fouls like a mofo.
 

rafael

Hall Of Famer
Club Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Messages
7,193
Reaction score
1,572
Location
Sparks, NV
Bottom 5 or not is debatable, but regardless, wasn't he in the same situation with the same surrounding talent against Arizona and San Diego? He seemed to do just fine elevating his team in those games.

So why the drop off from his second and third games as a starter? The roster was pretty much the same in 5 of the 6 other games, and if we were missing anyone, they were "bottom 5" type losses and shouldn't have been a big deal. Do you think teams had a little tape on him? Do you think it was fatigue from him not being fully recovered? Do you think it was normal rookie inconsistency?

All I know is that I was excited as hell after Arizona and LA, and the Tua I saw over the next 6 games was not the same Tua in those 2, and his surrounding cast didn't change much. But my ultimate point was that the Arizona and LA games excited me and set my expectations for the rest of the year because he looked so good.
It was primarily due to game planning. Gailey admitted that he had thrown out his notes regarding tendencies for defensive coordinators when he retired. He said he had to rely on info from other coaches on the staff for for DCs he knew little or nothing about. He stated that sometimes the info was more accurate than others. So in some games Tua came in well prepared regarding what to expect. In others, Tua saw looks he didn't expect. He lacked the ability to check out of plays and the experience to know what to do. So there were games where he reasonably looked lost. But it had nothing to do with talent, his or the surrounding players, it was due to preparation. As Tua gains experience I expect that games like Arizona will be a baseline for him.
 
Top Bottom