Fritz Pollard Recommendations

[AJ Duhe]

Before I get spammed, let me fully disclose that I am Black. Yeah, I could use the term African-American, but I was born in '75 and calling me a Black man is just fine with me.

I bring this up because I noticed that none of the named candidates for the current openings are men of color. The Rooney Rule is not there just so teams can comply with a cursory interview. It's there to allow minority candidates to get a foot in the door. I want you to look honestly at the following profile and tell me that this would not be a worthy candidate for our GM position. My point being that Ross has an opportunity that he is not seizing. Why waste interviews on crappy retreads like Pioli, Tannenbaum, and Mangini.

Lionel Vital, Falcons director of player personnel: Vital is a former NFL player, he has over 20 years of scouting and personnel experience, and has helped find players for some of the premier organizations in the NFL, including the Patriots and the Ravens. He has been a part of multiple Super Bowl franchises and has spent the past six years under Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff, who continues to develop top personnel execs who go on to become GMs (Les Snead to St. Louis and Dave Caldwell to Jacksonville most recently). Vital began his scouting career in Cleveland under Bill Belichick, and was with him in New England from 2000-04, in college scouting, and thus has vast experience on the pro and college side. And he knows Smith's division, the NFC South, inside and out from his time in Atlanta.

 

[TheWalrus]

We've requested the Giants' permission to interview Marc Ross. I certainly think he's one of the top candidates available and I've read nothing but good things about him. I think he'll have a legit shot at it.

His bio: http://www.giants.com/team/staff/marc-ross/b3f10aa5-b99b-4517-8abd-ea613a65d0de

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Thanks for bringing it up. However, I feel compelled to point out that Marc Ross and Alonzo Highsmithr are men of color.

I think Highsmith is a very legitimate candidate for the job, but Marc Ross really looks like a Rooney Rule interview to me. He's been in charge of the Giants drafts since 2008, and quite frankly, I was kind of impressed with how bad those drafts were when I looked at them.

Highsmith though, could be a great hire. He's a very well regarded scout and a Miami native (UM graduate). We gave his son a shot in camp under Philbin, and the two men are reportedly friends. He's an interesting guy. Had a pretty good second career as a boxer after he retired from the NFL and before he went into scouting.

 

[TheWalrus]

Thanks for bringing it up. However, I feel compelled to point out that Marc Ross and Alonzo Highsmithr are men of color.

I think Highsmith is a very legitimate candidate for the job, but Marc Ross really looks like a Rooney Rule interview to me. He's been in charge of the Giants drafts since 2008, and quite frankly, I was kind of impressed with how bad those drafts were when I looked at them.

Highsmith though, could be a great hire. He's a very well regarded scout and a Miami native (UM graduate). We gave his son a shot in camp under Philbin, and the two men are reportedly friends.

Pretty sure Jerry Reese runs the Giants draft room. Ross' bio says he "runs the draft" but I don't think that means he has final say.

 

[AJ Duhe]

Thanks for bringing it up. However, I feel compelled to point out that Marc Ross and Alonzo Highsmithr are men of color.

I think Highsmith is a very legitimate candidate for the job, but Marc Ross really looks like a Rooney Rule interview to me. He's been in charge of the Giants drafts since 2008, and quite frankly, I was kind of impressed with how bad those drafts were when I looked at them.

Highsmith though, could be a great hire. He's a very well regarded scout and a Miami native (UM graduate). We gave his son a shot in camp under Philbin, and the two men are reportedly friends. He's an interesting guy. Had a pretty good second career as a boxer after he retired from the NFL and before he went into scouting.

If Ross and Highsmith are indeed candidates, I will stand corrected. It won't change my opinion that Pioli, Tannenbaum, and Mangini aren't worthy candidates.

 

[dlockz]

If Ross and Highsmith are indeed candidates, I will stand corrected. It won't change my opinion that Pioli, Tannenbaum, and Mangini aren't worthy candidates.

How is Ross or Highsmith more worthy than Pioli

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Well for starters, they've probably never bugged their head coach's office. Surprising move for Bill Parcells' son-in-law, huh?

Pretty sure Jerry Reese runs the Giants draft room. Ross' bio says he "runs the draft" but I don't think that means he has final say.

Fair enough. But whoever runs it... it's been bad since 2008 when he supposedly took over.

I do think Highsmith has a very good chance of getting the job. Gamble looks like the closest thing there is to a slam dunk candidate, but if he doesn't want the job I could definitely see them hiring a guy from the Packers who has over a decade of scouting experience, has worked in a good front office, and already has a good relationship with Joe Philbin.

What I like about him is that I think he would be inclined to take a closer look at the talent coming out of our local schools than some of the schmoes we've had lately.

 

[andyahs]

If Ross and Highsmith are indeed candidates, I will stand corrected. It won't change my opinion that Pioli, Tannenbaum, and Mangini aren't worthy candidates.

Have either Pioli, Mangini or Tannenbaum even been confirmed to be interviewed?

Sent from my Nexus 7 FHD

 

[MP-Omnis]

Charlie Strong got the Texas job. Racism in football is dead bro.

 

[dlockz]

Charlie Strong got the Texas job. Racism in football is dead bro.

Racism is dying but not dead

 

[TheWalrus]

Well for starters, they've probably never bugged their head coach's office. Surprising move for Bill Parcells' son-in-law, huh?



Fair enough. But whoever runs it... it's been bad since 2008 when he supposedly took over.

I do think Highsmith has a very good chance of getting the job. Gamble looks like the closest thing there is to a slam dunk candidate, but if he doesn't want the job I could definitely see them hiring a guy from the Packers who has over a decade of scouting experience, has worked in a good front office, and already has a good relationship with Joe Philbin.

What I like about him is that I think he would be inclined to take a closer look at the talent coming out of our local schools than some of the schmoes we've had lately.

I agree. The Giants have not drafted very well recently. However, from what I've seen, Ross is well thought of.

Highsmith is interesting, but there's also reason to be cautious. My main issue is just the lack of variety. He's spent the entirety of his scouting life with the Packers. He's never worked for another organization. That isn't a disqualification in and of itself -- Ozzie Newsome has spent his entire career with the Browns/Ravens -- but it does weird me out a bit. I worry about gaps in the knowledge.

However, if you look at the results Hightower brings to the table, he's been moderately "successful", though it's really hard to quantify what counts as success in his job. Hightower spent most of his career with the Packers as an area scout for the Southwest (his current title is "Senior Personnel Executive", though I don't know what that means). I found a story labeling the Southwest as including colleges in Arizona, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Texas. So let's see who the Packers drafted from those states, say, from 2007-2012 (after which he was promoted to his current job).

The results:

Matt Flynn (7th round), Jermichael Finley (3rd round), RB Quinn Johnson (5th round), G Marshall Newhouse (5th round), DB Davon House (4th round), DL Rickey Elmore (6th round), DT Lawrence Guy (7th round). I was able to find no notable UDFAs from his area. In defense of this, well... mediocre record I admit that for the Packers "Southwest" might include more or in some ways different areas than this. Not every team divides the country the same way.

I heard a podcast on the role of area scouts in the actual Draft Day process once so I'll share. Apparently it varies from team to team, but with some teams it's common for area scouts (or whoever did the most work on a player), to get up in front of the room and read their report. Sometimes there's a debate or questions asked of them. Sometimes not.

For perspective, the Dolphins' most respected area scout is -- or, well, was -- Adam Engroff, who was our West area scout before becoming National Scout. You could pretty much count on a player or two to be taken from Engroff's area every year. Sean Smith, Patrick Turner, Koa Misi, Jimmy Wilson, Rishard Matthews, Jonathan Martin, Will Davis and Jamar Taylor were all scouted by Engroff. Ireland really trusted and relied on him, and his results, which stacked up against Hightower's, speak favorably of him.

 

[NRA]

Before I get spammed, let me fully disclose that I am Black. Yeah, I could use the term African-American, but I was born in '75 and calling me a Black man is just fine with me.

HATS OFF TO YOU AJ!! you sound like a man who is not afraid to be EXACTLY who he is, and that seems to be a REAL problem with "AFRICAN AMERICAN" community. not exactly popular to rock that boat ending up being a "token" or my new fav...."corn ball brother". THAT is keeping a brutha down. but, one thing that does surprise me is you openly shun your communities self inflicted label [again, hats off!] but you havnt addressed the "people of color" thing yet that is FINALLY starting coming to the forefront. [with great adversity].

like EVERYTHING ELSE, things have an exact meaning. COLORS are no different. there is a world comity that has created the standard for COLOR, it has been around for almost 200 years protecting the formulas and variations LONG BEFORE there were any talk or idea of "people of color". every 5 years a new color is introduced and its formula cataloged. there is a color wheel [your in my generation, we had the color wheel and chart in school] showing the basics of what makes colors what they are and giving way to an international standard. electricity, metallurgy, engineering, etc.... all have international standards. and in the COLOR standard, since DAY ONE, BLACK is......... "WITHOUT COLOR"!!

so, if these sort of labels applied to people are oh-so important, its CAUCASIANS and ASIANS and NATIVE AMERICANS and BROWN PEOPLE who are the TRUE people of color.

AND AS FAR AS THE NFL HIRING THING: i dont give a crap about any of the color thing. i want ONE THING associated with whom ever is hired, i want their resume to say NOTHING but OUTSTANDING PERSONNEL KNOWLEDGE and WELL ROUNDED NFL MIND. and as far as YOUR GUY, LIONEL VITAL, sounds GREAT!! BRING HIM ON!!

MY fav is TOM GAMBLE. i am more familiar with his work and his drafting over the years has been STELLER with several all pros to his resume in SF alone. his credentials are HIGH AND ABOVE everyone else and caries the HIGH RECOMMENDATIONS from the best and brightest people in the nfl. he is NO RETREAD like the ones on your list. he has been in pro and college scouting for years, is a capologist, played the game and grew up in the nfl. people like GILL BRANDT and BILL POLIAN and dozens of nfl exec's call him the brightest gm prospect on horizon and one of the VERY BEST talent evaluates there is.

after GAMBLE, should we not land him [rumour is, he is ross's top choice] than guys like VITAL are candiates i hope we bring in. bright, hungry talent that understands todays game and players. the LAST thing i want is another cronie/retread with a career list of excuses or token gm with no REAL powers.

way to come into a thread though AJ!! that took guts!! good stuff.

 

[MD]

Ray Farmer should get an interview. I like everything I read about him and yes, he is a man of color.

 

[joeharley666]

I'll be honest. I don't want to hire a guy for the job just because he's black to feel better about or Fins participating in being equal opportunity employers. White, black, asian, hispanic, middle eastern, I just want the right guy for the job.

And if it has to be a black man, can we steal Ozzie Newsome away from Baltimore???

 

[HoneyB]

The term Black is not revolutionary. Lots of blacks use it. The term AA is still used, and the two can be interchangeable but often used in different context. Many blacks living in America come from other nations, so sometimes they prefer black to AA. The term people of color I sometimes think started out as a unifying term to include biracial blacks in the black community, and brown people,..however at times it's a term to seemingly segregate white people from all other colors, unfortunately. Regarding black on the color wheel, it is all colors not devoid of color. Often is artwork in fact black is never quite black, it's brownish black, purple-ish black, etc. This is all very OT but since it was brought up I commented on it.

Full disclosure I am a white American of Italian heritage.