Gase's Offense....the Modern Version Of Marty Ball | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Gase's Offense....the Modern Version Of Marty Ball

Definitely not comparing the coaches to each other, rather their approach on the offensive side of the ball.

No comparisons at all is my point. Gase would have zero clue on how to use players like Barry Word and Christian Okoye or the likes of a Derrick Thomas.

101-58 is Marty's win-loss in KC and 0-2 vs MIA in the playoffs.
 
Marty Schottenheimer was an excellent coach. He made the mistake of running into Hall of Fame quarterbacks in the playoffs. Ten of his 13 playoff defeats were to quarterbacks already in the Hall of Fame or eventually in the Hall of Fame (Brady). He lost to Marino three times and Elway three times, Jim Kelly twice and Warren Moon once.

There were some bad playoff losses to standard quarterbacks, like 1995 against the Colts and 2004 in overtime to the Jets. Schottenheimer's field goal kicker basically donated those two games, but that stuff is not remembered these days, not in favor of the jolly denouncement of Schottenheimer as coach.

Not a perfect comparison since Schottenheimer was superior, but the knocks on Schottenheimer nationwide remind me of the knocks on Wannstedt by Dolphins fans. Same simplistic mindset. Apparently Marino was excused for never winning a Super Bowl but as soon as Wannstedt shows up with Jay Fiedler and company, he was supposed to win one or more.

Give me a swing. That's the realistic criteria. The Bill Parcells "You are what you are" line is his most famous, along with "bite as pups..." and "shop for some of the groceries," but the one that stands out to me is, "Do you know how hard it is to win the Super Bowl?" He said that in frustration during a press conference.

If Ryan Tannehill were the type of quarterback capable of getting us into the playoffs regularly and especially deeper into the playoffs, there wouldn't be any valid criticism of him if he never actually won the whole thing. Maybe that is more clear to me as a bettor because I know what those odds are, even if you advance deep in the playoffs. You still might be 6/1 against or 8/1 against...something like that. Marty Schottenheimer certainly was never Even money to win the championship, or anything close to that.

The idea is to find a coach/quarterback combination capable of getting you to that 6/1 or 8/1 level. Then take your chances.

Only the elite quarterbacks reach the point their late season odds might be as low as 2/1 or Even money or odds-on, like 4/5. If you are 7 point favorite in a conference championship game and project as 7 point favorite again in the Super Bowl, then that is narrowly odds-on, or theoretically more likely than not.

That's why so many of us are desperate to find that type of quarterback, as opposed to others who think it is swell to build up the roster piece by piece, even if it means you stick with someone like Ryan Tannehill at quarterback.

Newsflash: That means your odds at the outset of the playoff are no better than 25/1 and it can be as high as 50/1. Not exaggeration. Go on the road 3 times plus the Super Bowl and you are 50/1 if not higher to win all 4. In other words, you didn't gain anything by betting that team at 40/1 before the season began.

Just a dose of reality for that build-the-roster crew.


I remember that 95 KC team, and that upset. Being here in Kansas around the faithful, that game was memorable as it was another flop by Marty and company. Or that is how I would frame it to old HS buddies and their dads.

As much as I have a utter dislike of KC, I have enjoyed seeing my father come to enjoy his Sundays again. But with their history, he to is waiting on the bad crap to follow. They have been so conditioned by history failures, they are still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Only history and time can give Marty his due and proper context to the job he did in KC.
 
No comparisons at all is my point. Gase would have zero clue on how to use players like Barry Word and Christian Okoye or the likes of a Derrick Thomas.

101-58 is Marty's win-loss in KC and 0-2 vs MIA in the playoffs.

There is absolutely a comparison on their offensive mindset to the game. Conservative, keep it close, and win it by grinding it out. Once again, not comparing the coaches or resumes....just simply the offensive mindset and it absolutely reminds me of Marty Ball.
 
Marty ball might have been ok when 20 points gets you a win, but in today's NFL if you arent putting up 30, youre gonna lose.
 
Marty who?? Feldman?!?
strabismo.jpg
 
There is absolutely a comparison on their offensive mindset to the game. Conservative, keep it close, and win it by grinding it out. Once again, not comparing the coaches or resumes....just simply the offensive mindset and it absolutely reminds me of Marty Ball.


I don't see it all. As Marty had actual results to say he knew how to win games. Also, comparing 1990-1998 or so, to today's game, is apples to oranges. Today's NFL defenses have been neutered to a large degree.
 
For those old enough to remember Marty Schottenheimer and his offensive style of run, run, pass; Gase's offense reminds me of this philosophy. Gase sometimes replaces the run with a RB or WR screen, but the concept is the same. Don't make mistakes, rely on the D to keep the game close while trying to control the clock. It is boring, predictable, and gets coaches fired.

While Schottenheimer did have solid regular season success, he had a losing playoff record and is the only coaching NFL history with 200 wins and a losing playoff record. Although we have only made the playoffs once with Gase, I still see this recipe having the same success or lack there of. When healthy, this game plan can beat your average to below average teams, however it is not successful against quality teams. This is on par with the majority of our wins we have had under Gase. We beat teams with even or losing records and we lose games to the better teams in the league.

My biggest issue with this style of offense is you almost have to play a perfect game in your other phases of the game and your offense must be clutch at the end of close games. Just this year we have lost games with this approach in games we should have won by double digits IMHO. I don't mind Gase as a HC, but he needs to give up play calling responsibilities!
I remember. One of my best friend's saying was "make the playoffs then u die. Only reason you got past first round was cause u had a bye," referring to Chefs and Marty Ball. GREAT comparison. Whatever happened to Gase's PUNKING of other teams (at least trying with aggressive play calls) like he did to Broncos?
 
Give me the 80's hard nosed football over this bull high scoring league any day. I miss low scoring slug-fests where you're into the 4th quarter on a muddy field and you know the team that can make the break-through will win it. Defense wins championships style. And now wer're going to end up with a team in London!? I live near London and I absolutely DO NOT want a franchise over here.

You guys need to look after your beautiful game and protect it.

Sorry for going off subject but I loved martyball, the mid to late 80's was the pinnacle of the sport for myself. Maybe I'm just a nostalgic schmuck!
 
I completely agree that Marty Ball is better than Screen Ball.

I get that the you call a screen instead of a run when the interior of the box is loaded, but let's face facts: our screens don't go anywhere even against favorable looks. Gase needs to just cut them out of the gameplan entirely for one week and see how it works. Of course, he won't do that, because it would require some introspection and willingness to face some hard truths, but it would be interesting.

I still like Adam Gase, but his stubbornness will be his undoing here. And I honestly won't feel bad about it. Coach, sometimes you just have to swallow your pride.
Thanks brother for the laugh on Marty ball is better than screen ball! Nice post!
 
His offense is like Mike Martz, with the Bears.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...of-mike-martz-was-great-move-by-chicago-bears

Sure, they didn't call it a "firing" per se, but that's truly what it amounted to. Martz was a stubborn coach who was slow to adjust two years in a row. At the bye week of the 2010 season, the Bears seemingly had to threaten bodily harm to their offensive coordinator to get him to enhance the protection scheme and run the football. But it took a record number of sacks that almost got QB Jay Cutler killed to get Martz to change, and even then he did so grudgingly.

Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler still considers former offensive coordinator Mike Martz "one of the brightest minds in the game," but admitted his system may have been behind the times, while adding the coach's inflexibility played a role in the unit's struggles.

Cutler said the players bought into Martz's system Wednesday on ESPN 1000's "Waddle & Silvy Show," but "there comes a point where you have to give a little bit, and you've got to take a look at the whole offense, what we're good at, and what we're bad at.

"You have to be able to change a little bit, and I think that's kind of where we messed up a little bit. There wasn't flexibility as I think we needed."

http://www.espn.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8026806/chicago-bears-offense-was-inflexible-mike-martz
 
His offense is like Mike Martz, with the Bears.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...of-mike-martz-was-great-move-by-chicago-bears

Sure, they didn't call it a "firing" per se, but that's truly what it amounted to. Martz was a stubborn coach who was slow to adjust two years in a row. At the bye week of the 2010 season, the Bears seemingly had to threaten bodily harm to their offensive coordinator to get him to enhance the protection scheme and run the football. But it took a record number of sacks that almost got QB Jay Cutler killed to get Martz to change, and even then he did so grudgingly.

Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler still considers former offensive coordinator Mike Martz "one of the brightest minds in the game," but admitted his system may have been behind the times, while adding the coach's inflexibility played a role in the unit's struggles.

Cutler said the players bought into Martz's system Wednesday on ESPN 1000's "Waddle & Silvy Show," but "there comes a point where you have to give a little bit, and you've got to take a look at the whole offense, what we're good at, and what we're bad at.

"You have to be able to change a little bit, and I think that's kind of where we messed up a little bit. There wasn't flexibility as I think we needed."

http://www.espn.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8026806/chicago-bears-offense-was-inflexible-mike-martz

I would say personalities are similar, but Martz had a lot more intermediate and long passes to it. It did use the RB a lot on passes in St Louis with Marshall Faulk. Martz was an attacking offense and Gase's (at least here) is completely the opposite.
 
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