Gil Brant compares this crop of Edge Rushers to current NFL players... | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Gil Brant compares this crop of Edge Rushers to current NFL players...

Danny said:
Fit means so much. I agree, let some players go higher than they should as it'd push a player we can really use down to us
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Micah Parsons
Zaven Collins
Baron Browning
And I feel like I'm forgetting someone - maybe Ossai . . .

. . . are the only OLB's I've seen who are good/talented enough to take serious reps from what Miami already has at SLB. The bonus in Parsons is that he could start at SLB and move to Mike when McKinney moves on.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Micah Parsons
Zaven Collins
Baron Browning
And I feel like I'm forgetting someone - maybe Ossai . . .

. . . are the only OLB's I've seen who are good/talented enough to take serious reps from what Miami already has at SLB. The bonus in Parsons is that he could start at SLB and move to Mike when McKinney moves on.
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well if he makes it to 18 is a no brainer based on talent. Are the flags so bad that he lasted that long? And if they are, are we the ones to take a chance?
 
Feverdream said:
I think that pass rushers tend to be one of the later developing positions. There are so many moves, so many counters to learn and perfect... Then there is the added weight and musculature that comes with growing into your mid twenties.

It pains me when some FFL playing poster snottily says, "but he didn't get many sacks in college, the stats say he's no good." So many of them quote stats and that's about it. The ones who go deep into the analytics are the worst about this. It's like a mental patient with schizophrenia-- they are trying to tie concepts together that are only tenuously connected.

All of this plays into their narrative that this is a weak Edge class. They focus on the lack of sacks, and in a truncated Covid season no less, and try to make the claim that these guys aren't any good.

I realize that part of this is exclusively due to the fact that they want to draft offensive backs, and that no excuse will go unused to tear down the competition, but it just gets old.

This is a good class of pass rushers and edge setters, but like drafting all edge players, it comes with a boom/bust risk.
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Paye is more nfl ready supposedly but nfl ready doesnt mean ****. Once these players become pro conditioned then we can talk
 
Danny said:
well if he makes it to 18 is a no brainer based on talent. Are the flags so bad that he lasted that long? And if they are, are we the ones to take a chance?
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Lots of Detroit rumors as far as Parsons goes. Interesting that Miami traded above Detroit.

Not that I expect Parsons, but Flores is a defensive minded coach.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Think CB and Edge have similar depth, but the CB group is better at the top.

The Edge class is fine. There just aren't any prospects who put it all together. Phillips is the closest, but he has concussion concerns. I feel good about Oweh and Paye, but I don't feel great about them. Generally speaking, the guys who sack the QB a lot in the NFL also do it in college, but there are notable exceptions, and Oweh and Paye have profiles similar to the exceptions.

But, Oweh and Paye are toward the top of the list of guys I wouldn't mind at 18. They're just not on the list of guys I particularly want there.

Agree with LZ that Payton Turner will end up being better than a lot of the higher-ranked players. Similar story for Elerson Smith.
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And Odeyingbo, if he gets healthy. And Cam Sample.
 
I guess I just see things a little differently on Jayson Oweh. I watch him play football and I don't just see a guy who could be good in the NFL, I see a guy I want on my side of the field when I'm on defense. I want the way he can chase a ball out to the sidelines and keep a decent play from turning into a big play. Just try holding him back from second chance and scramble sacks. There are a lot of tools there, in pass rush. He's shown strength. He has more range than you know what to do with.

I'd much rather put him on my card than Jaelan Phillips, with all those health issues.

Edge class is weak this year, particularly at the top, because you get the feeling some of the lower tier guys will out-play the upper tier guys.

But the thing about an edge class is it's like a receivers class. There are always going to be plenty of them out there to get you excited because there were a lot of them put in favorable positions to make big plays. That's what you do with your edge, you open the way for him to sack the quarterback and get the fans jumping around, not unlike a receiver being on the receiving end of a big play.

So I mean, between Jayson Oweh, Jaelan Phillips, Kwity Paye, Carlos Basham, Azeez Ojulari, Greg Rousseau, Elerson Smith, Joseph Ossai, Cam Sample, Payton Turner, Janarius Robinson, Joshua Kaindoh, Dayo Odeyingbo, Rashad Weaver, Quincy Roche, Joe Tryon, Ronnie Perkins, Hamilcar Rashed, Ade Ogundeji, Daelin Hayes, and Tarron Jackson...you're going to get some NFL players. You'd probably take any of them at a certain point in the draft.
 
ckparrothead said:
I guess I just see things a little differently on Jayson Oweh. I watch him play football and I don't just see a guy who could be good in the NFL, I see a guy I want on my side of the field when I'm on defense. I want the way he can chase a ball out to the sidelines and keep a decent play from turning into a big play. Just try holding him back from second chance and scramble sacks. There are a lot of tools there, in pass rush. He's shown strength. He has more range than you know what to do with.

I'd much rather put him on my card than Jaelan Phillips, with all those health issues.

Edge class is weak this year, particularly at the top, because you get the feeling some of the lower tier guys will out-play the upper tier guys.

But the thing about an edge class is it's like a receivers class. There are always going to be plenty of them out there to get you excited because there were a lot of them put in favorable positions to make big plays. That's what you do with your edge, you open the way for him to sack the quarterback and get the fans jumping around, not unlike a receiver being on the receiving end of a big play.

So I mean, between Jayson Oweh, Jaelan Phillips, Kwity Paye, Carlos Basham, Azeez Ojulari, Greg Rousseau, Elerson Smith, Joseph Ossai, Cam Sample, Payton Turner, Janarius Robinson, Joshua Kaindoh, Dayo Odeyingbo, Rashad Weaver, Quincy Roche, Joe Tryon, Ronnie Perkins, Hamilcar Rashed, Ade Ogundeji, Daelin Hayes, and Tarron Jackson...you're going to get some NFL players. You'd probably take any of them at a certain point in the draft.
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Def agree that I'd draft Oweh over Phillips. Concussions are no joke, and I don't like that kind of gamble early. Without them, I think he's the guy you'd be happy to draft Top 20 and would have to consider Top 10 (not for Miami, just in general). For Miami, I think it's between Oweh, Paye, and Turner, and I'd lean Turner - all elite athletes with some high-end flashes and better overall tape than they're given credit, save for Paye, who seems to get more love than the other two. Turner, though, is just such a fit: thick, long, agile, versatile.

As long as these guys don't get pushed up too much, I'd say Top 40-100 it's a strong group. It just lacks someone I'd want to draft at 18. 2a, 2b, and 3 are the slots I'd want to target Edge.
 
So Phillips skipped the combine medicals due to COVID? If he doesn't make it up, I hope the Fins just remove him from the board. I would not spend a Day 1 or Day 2 pick on him at that risk.
 
Would you rather spend #18 on Oweh or a Day 3 pick on Shaka Toney? Toney was considerably lighter at the pro day (242 vs 257; Toney was 238 at the Senior Bowl). If not for the weight issue, I would definitely lean Toney.

Similar question regarding Roche vs Phillips or Rousseau. Not as familiar with Roche, but his profile is not that enticing. I would probably stay away from all three Hurricanes.
 
The edge rushers that best fit our team are Ojulari, Oweh, Tryon, and E Smith imo. Phillips is a fit, but I would not take him.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Micah Parsons
Zaven Collins
Baron Browning
And I feel like I'm forgetting someone - maybe Ossai . . .

. . . are the only OLB's I've seen who are good/talented enough to take serious reps from what Miami already has at SLB. The bonus in Parsons is that he could start at SLB and move to Mike when McKinney moves on.
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I think you are right, but I do wonder if Jamin Davis could be a good fit. I think he's a little bit of a work in progress, but I'd gamble on that athletic profile. Not sure, though, if it's the Van Noy role or strictly a middle linebacker. I know he's about 6-4 236, so a little smaller than Miami likes.
 
I think Davis is a guy who could carry some more muscle so I don't know if that would put off the Fins.

And he looks like a guy who has his best football ahead of him, not maxed out at all.
 
jimthefin said:
I think Davis is a guy who could carry some more muscle so I don't know if that would put off the Fins.

And he looks like a guy who has his best football ahead of him, not maxed out at all.
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I think so, but it'd take time to add that kind of mass. You'd basically be drafting him as a sub-package/ST's player early. Once he bulks up, he probably has the tools to excel in the role, but it might be Year 3. Needs to add 15-20 lbs, and that's no joke.

So, you're looking at 2 more years on the contract, or 2 years and a rookie option. That's 2 years of significant play at a discount, and there's still the chance he's just not very good.

More valuable in a different scheme imo
 
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