Ginn should be moved to the slot | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Ginn should be moved to the slot

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MrEd

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Look at how Chambers played Pro Bowl ball once he was moved to the slot. Ginn looks like he is in the same situation. Ginn, who obviously isn't ready to be the #1 WR just yet, needs to be moved to the slot to gain some confidence and/or experience, and definitely START ERNEST WILFORD!!!!

Wilford fricking led the JAGS in receptions last season. The guy can ball! He was the missing ingredient in the game last week. And I believe we would have won if we utilized him correctly instead of trying to hurt your team(Sparano?) by sending a message to your best WR: "If you don't play Special Teams, you won't play"....meanwhile hurting your team on Sunday! (I hope Sparano gets that message).

Then, Ronnie Brown needs to be our 3rd down back. Period! (Ya heard, Sparano?) :(

Anyways...here's to that Sparano realizes his mistakes last week and we fix our mistakes. Go Phins! :hi5: :up:
 
Ginn is too much of a long strider to really excel in the slot. You need the short area quickness of a Welker to really do well in there. That's why you'll continue to see Bess and Camarillo in the slot for now, since they have the kind of quickness you need.

That's the odd part about the whole Ginn/Hagan/Wilford scenario. They're all decent players, but scheme-wise, they don't belong on the field together, since they're all outside kinds of guys. Wilford is a big, possession type in the mold of, say, an Ed McCaffery. Hagan is a size/speed freak with the physical ability of a Terrell Owens but not the mental toughness or determination. And Ginn, right now, is a mediocre route runner with Joey Galloway-type speed but little short area quickness.

In three receiver sets, one of them is going to sit.
 
Let's not act like Ernest Wilford is this great wide receiver because he led the Jaguars last year in receptions. He had 45 catches for 518 yards. That is only 11 catches and 98 yards more than Ted Ginn had last year. Wilford is a complementary receiver and nothing more.
 
Ginn is not a slot guy at all. He is a speed burner and a long strider. In short space he has below average athleticism. He is a speed guy, not a quickness guy. He also is not as fast over 10 yards. Running the 40, he is your guy. Running 10 yards and getting open in a phone booth, he is *not* your guy.
 
I still think its a little premature to make such large assumptions about Ginn. We've played only one game this season...and he was decent last season.

I think the truth of it all is that Sparano and Parcells like Ted Ginn. He adds a lot to this team whether some of you want to believe it or not.

He was a first round pick, stand up guy. Since joining this team nothing negative about him has come out to the media/public. But even more importantly, he was effective in his one and only season.

Last season Ted Ginn had these receiving stats:
REC YARDS AVG LONG TD
34 420 12.4 54 2

No, those are not some Pro Bowl numbers, but how rare is it to see that from a first year receiver anyways? He started 9 games, which gave him a bit of game experience and he had average quarterback play, at best, to work with. All and all, I think he played as expected for a first year receiver who still has to fine tune his style for the NFL and with a whole new offensive system.

This also does not mention his explosive play on Special Teams - especially on punt returns.

Did you forget that he was the first player to return a punt for a touchdown for the Miami Dolphins in something like 9-10 years? Oh, thats not to mention I remember he got 1 (or it could have been 2?) punt returns for touchdown called back. That in itself is a pretty big stat...and it also shows he has the ability to be clutch.


Never mind the fact that he was relatively effective in his first year considering how "raw" he was suppose to be. Lets ignore that for one second...

Then what else are we going to base your 'Ginn = bust' assumptions on?

This season?

Surely you cannot be basing off the one game we played...the one game with a brand new quarterback...the one game where our pass/rush offense was uneven and relatively sub-par...the one game where he was faced against a pretty good cover corner in Darrel Revis.


I think it's safe to say that any talk of Tedd Ginn Jr. being a BUST is very premature. Let the offense start to come together a little bit...the quarterback to reciever timing down, and let the kid play a few games before you wanna bad mouth him, god knows it's been awhile since we have had an dynamic player who can stretch the field AND be an explosive force on kick returns.
 
Atila said:
I still think its a little premature to make such large assumptions about Ginn. We've played only one game this season...and he was decent last season.

I think the truth of it all is that Sparano and Parcells like Ted Ginn. He adds a lot to this team whether some of you want to believe it or not.

He was a first round pick, stand up guy. Since joining this team nothing negative about him has come out to the media/public. But even more importantly, he was effective in his one and only season.

Last season Ted Ginn had these receiving stats:
REC YARDS AVG LONG TD
34 420 12.4 54 2

No, those are not some Pro Bowl numbers, but how rare is it to see that from a first year receiver anyways? He started 9 games, which gave him a bit of game experience and he had average quarterback play, at best, to work with. All and all, I think he played as expected for a first year receiver who still has to fine tune his style for the NFL and with a whole new offensive system.

This also does not mention his explosive play on Special Teams - especially on punt returns.

Did you forget that he was the first player to return a punt for a touchdown for the Miami Dolphins in something like 9-10 years? Oh, thats not to mention I remember he got 1 (or it could have been 2?) punt returns for touchdown called back. That in itself is a pretty big stat...and it also shows he has the ability to be clutch.


Never mind the fact that he was relatively effective in his first year considering how "raw" he was suppose to be. Lets ignore that for one second...

Then what else are we going to base your 'Ginn = bust' assumptions on?

This season?

Surely you cannot be basing off the one game we played...the one game with a brand new quarterback...the one game where our pass/rush offense was uneven and relatively sub-par...the one game where he was faced against a pretty good cover corner in Darrel Revis.


I think it's safe to say that any talk of Tedd Ginn Jr. being a BUST is very premature. Let the offense start to come together a little bit...the quarterback to reciever timing down, and let the kid play a few games before you wanna bad mouth him, god knows it's been awhile since we have had an dynamic player who can stretch the field AND be an explosive force on kick returns.
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying he was a bust, nor should anyone. It's far too early for that. It's just that his physical skill set doesn't project well to the slot, where quickness, rather than long speed, is king. Ginn's relative lack of smooth quickness is also a hindrance to his ability to run good routes, but I think he can improve in that regard. Jerry Rice was a long strider as well, and he, you know, did pretty well. Ginn was incredibly raw coming out of college, and obviously still needs seasoning not telegraphing his routes and gathering himself so much going into his breaks.

If it were me, I'd still have him out there returning punts and kicks, since that's probably his best way to contribute right now.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
Ginn is too much of a long strider to really excel in the slot. You need the short area quickness of a Welker to really do well in there. That's why you'll continue to see Bess and Camarillo in the slot for now, since they have the kind of quickness you need.

That's the odd part about the whole Ginn/Hagan/Wilford scenario. They're all decent players, but scheme-wise, they don't belong on the field together, since they're all outside kinds of guys. Wilford is a big, possession type in the mold of, say, an Ed McCaffery. Hagan is a size/speed freak with the physical ability of a Terrell Owens but not the mental toughness or determination. And Ginn, right now, is a mediocre route runner with Joey Galloway-type speed but little short area quickness.

In three receiver sets, one of them is going to sit.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. At the very least, Hagan and Ginn look the part of slot receivers.

Wilford definitely is a pure possession receiver on the outside. But Hagan looks the part to play opposite Wilford with Ginn playing in the slot against the 3rd best CB on the opposing defense or Hagan in the slot, with Ginn playing outside(eventually).

But right now, Ginn needs to be at the slot, with Hagan outside with Wilford. Hagan is fast enough to stretch the field. Ginn needs to be at the slot, for now, at least.
 
Atila said:
I still think its a little premature to make such large assumptions about Ginn. We've played only one game this season...and he was decent last season.

I think the truth of it all is that Sparano and Parcells like Ted Ginn. He adds a lot to this team whether some of you want to believe it or not.

He was a first round pick, stand up guy. Since joining this team nothing negative about him has come out to the media/public. But even more importantly, he was effective in his one and only season.

Last season Ted Ginn had these receiving stats:
REC YARDS AVG LONG TD
34 420 12.4 54 2

No, those are not some Pro Bowl numbers, but how rare is it to see that from a first year receiver anyways? He started 9 games, which gave him a bit of game experience and he had average quarterback play, at best, to work with. All and all, I think he played as expected for a first year receiver who still has to fine tune his style for the NFL and with a whole new offensive system.

This also does not mention his explosive play on Special Teams - especially on punt returns.

Did you forget that he was the first player to return a punt for a touchdown for the Miami Dolphins in something like 9-10 years? Oh, thats not to mention I remember he got 1 (or it could have been 2?) punt returns for touchdown called back. That in itself is a pretty big stat...and it also shows he has the ability to be clutch.


Never mind the fact that he was relatively effective in his first year considering how "raw" he was suppose to be. Lets ignore that for one second...

Then what else are we going to base your 'Ginn = bust' assumptions on?

This season?

Surely you cannot be basing off the one game we played...the one game with a brand new quarterback...the one game where our pass/rush offense was uneven and relatively sub-par...the one game where he was faced against a pretty good cover corner in Darrel Revis.


I think it's safe to say that any talk of Tedd Ginn Jr. being a BUST is very premature. Let the offense start to come together a little bit...the quarterback to reciever timing down, and let the kid play a few games before you wanna bad mouth him, god knows it's been awhile since we have had an dynamic player who can stretch the field AND be an explosive force on kick returns.
Click to expand...

Though I love Ginn and am happy we selected him even. I called Ginn at #9. But lets not fudge the stats...it has not been no 10 years without a return back for a TD...Welker returned a few, remember.
 
finsfan_84 said:
whats the point in having a "long strider" if your qb cant launch the ball?
Click to expand...

Stop deceiving yourself, Pennington can absolutely launch the ball. He attempted a few during last weeks game. You would have known that if you saw the game. Pennington overthrew Ginn at one point and the other time, Ginn was too well covered by Revis.

People need to look and judge for themselves instead of just buying whatever the media feeds you. Pennington may not have the cannon that Favre has, but he can gun it about 40-50 yards, which is all you need to throw a bomb to keep a defense honest.

I guarantee, Pennington will attack the deep secondary more this Sunday, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ginn steps up and grabs a few.

Let's not fall for hype. Pennington has an NFL arm. Believe that.
 
I don't think Ginns feet are good enough for him to go into the slot. Plus, you have to not be afraid to get hit when working the insidef against safeties and, LBs.
 
Some interesting notations. Ginn cannot be called a bust at this point. He must find his niche and the coaches must exploit his strengths.

Penny can go deep, just look at what Coles did with that weak armed QB, torched us regularly. I feel they need to gel and the by-product will be production at a high level.
 
MrEd said:
I completely disagree. At the very least, Hagan and Ginn look the part of slot receivers.

Wilford definitely is a pure possession receiver on the outside. But Hagan looks the part to play opposite Wilford with Ginn playing in the slot against the 3rd best CB on the opposing defense or Hagan in the slot, with Ginn playing outside(eventually).

But right now, Ginn needs to be at the slot, with Hagan outside with Wilford. Hagan is fast enough to stretch the field. Ginn needs to be at the slot, for now, at least.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but "looking the part" and "being the part" are very different things. At Arizona State, Hagan was an outside, possession type with prototypical size (6'2", 220) and great hands who, based on the way he played, everyone figured would run in the mid to high 4.5s at the combine. Instead, he runs in the 4.4s, shocking everyone, but suddenly isn't able to catch. He'd always been a body catcher, but now he couldn't catch anything. This led several to wonder whether he was having trouble concentrating and catching while playing at full speed, since he'd never played as a 4.4 guy (opposite of, say, an Anquan Boldin).

He was never a quick guy who got open in the short area. That was never his role in college and it hasn't been what he's been coached to do in the pros. Most guys his size just don't flourish in there. It takes a guy with, say, Troy Brown's quickness (or Nat Moore's, or O.J. McDuffie's) to get open in the zone and separate from linebackers in there. Plus, since you're pretty likely to take a shot if you do catch the ball, you've got to have great concentration and hands, two things Hagan simply haven't shown yet.

Hagan will sink or swim on the outside. Ginn's problem, as I said earlier, is the fact that he's a long strider, which doesn't allow him to break down quickly in soft spots in zone coverage. Since he's not going to become a short strider (everyone is fundamentally one or the other), it would take a lot of saavy and precision for him to be good at it (he might actually have to learn not to run his routes so hard, because he builds up so much speed it takes him that much longer to stop quickly), and those are two things he simply doesn't have right now (though I hope, obviously, he develops them eventually).
 
I think they may just need to change the routes that he runs. He can't seem to get by the defender cleanly for the straight fly route; he just doesn't get position. I think that if they got him doing more crossing patterns like he did in the preseason game where he caught is across the middle...that is what I would like to see a little bit more. This would also force the defenders to respect him more and open things up a bit coming of the line...(this is one thing that I can't say I am "right" on...just an idea...)
 
MrEd said:
Stop deceiving yourself, Pennington can absolutely launch the ball. He attempted a few during last weeks game. You would have known that if you saw the game. Pennington overthrew Ginn at one point and the other time, Ginn was too well covered by Revis.

People need to look and judge for themselves instead of just buying whatever the media feeds you. Pennington may not have the cannon that Favre has, but he can gun it about 40-50 yards, which is all you need to throw a bomb to keep a defense honest.

I guarantee, Pennington will attack the deep secondary more this Sunday, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ginn steps up and grabs a few.

Let's not fall for hype. Pennington has an NFL arm. Believe that.
Click to expand...



LMFAO


No i did watch the game, and i saw every deep pass that pennington attempted, go out of bounds...just because you can throw it that far, doesnt mean u can do it for accuracy, he has to put all his strenghth into the throw in order to throw it 30-40 yards


do u think that the media and jet fans would say this year in and year out if it wasnt true?
 
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