Go Get Rodgers? | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Go Get Rodgers?

I can't remember a running qb last more than 8 years and still effective in recent history.
Occasionally a 'mobile' QB will last longer... but guys like Russell Wilson run when they have to, rather than by design... or at the first hint of trouble.

It drives me crazy when we'll be kicking around some college prospect and some lunk head will rattle off... "duh... but he's a statue back there. Doncha know that smart people like me say that you have to have a mobile QB in today's NFL?"

You mean like 43 year old Brady? Or 37 Year old Rodgers? or Rivers who played into the playoffs... or Brees... or...

These guys get so caught up in whatever is new and shiny, that they miss everything else... like old, largely immobile QBs playing deep into the season.

Sigh...
 
Rodgers was incredible today. The refs let the DBs hold on every play and he still threw for 350. If the refs call holding on the INT right before half, that games is completely different.

One of my argument for how the NFL dictates who wins and who loses isn’t the penalties they call — it’s the penalties they don’t call.

Because they can throw a flag on practically every play. But they don’t. They pick and choose.

It infuriates me to no end to see a DL clearly held right in front of the QB with the back judge looking right at it. Happens all the time.

But then when they do throw the flag, the replay clearly shows that it was a good call. Great. But what about the last series for the other team when they did the exact same thing?

They always have ”plausible deniability“. In other words, “sorry, we didn’t see it”.

The weekend before last, I saw THREE instances in one game where a DL was clearly lined up offside. Hand was well past the ball and so was his helmet. Probably a good foot offside. Maybe a bit more. As I keep rewinding to review it, I see both line judges looking down the line. But still no flag by either.

There’s just no rationale explanation. Except an agenda IMO.

Sorry, but I just don’t see a coincidence that the NFL (and media) got the SB matchup they surely wanted most. They can’t lose. We get to hear about Brady’s greatness for 2 weeks — and the fact they are miraculously playing a home game (another fantastic coincidence).

If Tampa wins, it’s a great story as far as the NFL and media is concerned. If KC wins, it’s another great story. 2 in a row for Mahomes and the official passing of the torch from Brady to Mahomes.

Tampa wasn’t even all that good this season. They got destroyed by New Orleans twice. But of course got lucky in the 3rd game without Taysom Hill playing. Then not surprisingly got just enough calls. Or noncalls as it were. Same thing against GB.

People like to mock conspiracy theories. But with TV and media revenue driving the game, it’s not far fetched. Every pro sport is exactly the same. They hand out star treatment to those that have developed a following and a name. The NBA is by far the worst at it, closely followed by the NFL and it’s QB’s.

To not see or recognize this is nativity and ignorance at its finest.
 
Occasionally a 'mobile' QB will last longer... but guys like Russell Wilson run when they have to, rather than by design... or at the first hint of trouble.

It drives me crazy when we'll be kicking around some college prospect and some lunk head will rattle off... "duh... but he's a statue back there. Doncha know that smart people like me say that you have to have a mobile QB in today's NFL?"

You mean like 43 year old Brady? Or 37 Year old Rodgers? or Rivers who played into the playoffs... or Brees... or...

These guys get so caught up in whatever is new and shiny, that they miss everything else... like old, largely immobile QBs playing deep into the season.

Sigh...
Even Wilson,he is far from his prime year back on mid 2010s. And its only his ninth season.
 
Even Wilson,he is far from his prime year back on mid 2010s. And its only his ninth season.
Agreed... his effectiveness is declining a bit. I expect him to run less and less, and instead just move around in the backfield like Tarkenton used to do.
 
There is an article on the web somewhere about how Stafford may be better in S Fla than Watson.

I say no to Stafford, DW, & AR 12..... just roll with Tua & Fitzmagic in 2021
 
One of my argument for how the NFL dictates who wins and who loses isn’t the penalties they call — it’s the penalties they don’t call.

Because they can throw a flag on practically every play. But they don’t. They pick and choose.


People like to mock conspiracy theories. But with TV and media revenue driving the game, it’s not far fetched. Every pro sport is exactly the same. They hand out star treatment to those that have developed a following and a name. The NBA is by far the worst at it, closely followed by the NFL and it’s QB’s.

To not see or recognize this is nativity and ignorance at its finest.
Although football is a sport, and by definition sports are supposed to be governed by good sportsmanship and fair play, the NFL has no interest in that whatsoever. The NFL is not a "Sports Association", they're a for-profit entity in the Entertainment Business. The fact that one blatant penalty is called, but another isn't called is proof that the league (on some level) attempts to influence the outcome of games; probably not every game, but certain games. We as Miami fans have seen evidence of this for years. While Brady was the "Golden Boy" face of the NFL, how often did calls go his way? His o-linemen were rarely called for holding because the face of the league must be protected at all costs!

Actually, while typing this post I just thought of another reason why the league has no interest in having their Officials call a "perfect" game. In the entertainment industry, publicity is good, and sometimes even bad publicity is good too. Like it or not, pro players are role models for little kids. So, what does that say about a league that drafts and employs players with criminal records or shady backgrounds? It's just more publicity! And, back to bad officiating, if the NFL wanted every game called correctly they have the money and the technology to erect camera arrays that could cover practically every square inch of the field. If a Head Coach saw a penalty that the Officials missed, he should be able to have that play reviewed. Officials off the field watching monitors could see infractions that were missed by the on-field Officials and notify the Head Official to stop play for the penalty. Sensors on the field with transmitters in the footballs would mean that even under a pile the Officials could know where to correctly spot the ball.

But, none of this is done. Why? Publicity. The internet is full of people talking about or complaining about bad calls in every game, especially in big games. And, publicity also comes from things that the league can't control. Miracle comeback? A sure win given away by a bone-headed play or penalty? An odd bounce of the football that changes the outcome of a game? That's all great publicity... and that's great entertainment. The league could make every game (nearly) 100% fair, but that would cut into the publicity and entertainment value.
 
People like to mock conspiracy theories. But with TV and media revenue driving the game, it’s not far fetched. Every pro sport is exactly the same. They hand out star treatment to those that have developed a following and a name. The NBA is by far the worst at it, closely followed by the NFL and it’s QB’s.

To not see or recognize this is nativity and ignorance at its finest.
In my case I love to do it. They are hilarious and revealing. Twenty-two players on the field. Full public view. Yeah, that sounds ripe for manipulation. What could possibly go wrong with a plan like that?

Rooting against Tom Brady or trying to pretend he was nothing but a system quarterback should have been shelved 15 years ago. Somehow it lingers on Dolphin sites due to desperation to make Dan Marino more than he ever was.

Referees don't call penalties in the playoffs. That has been true to the 50+ years I have followed the sport. It will be true 50 years from now, if the world doesn't end on one of those days the seers proclaim it will end.
 
In my case I love to do it. They are hilarious and revealing. Twenty-two players on the field. Full public view. Yeah, that sounds ripe for manipulation. What could possibly go wrong with a plan like that?

Rooting against Tom Brady or trying to pretend he was nothing but a system quarterback should have been shelved 15 years ago. Somehow it lingers on Dolphin sites due to desperation to make Dan Marino more than he ever was.

The part where you bring up Brady and Marino is also revealing. And laughable. Has nothing to do with the crux of the point. It goes far beyond not liking certain players. But if that’s how you choose to dismiss a different POV, then go on with your bad self.

Honestly, after 50 years of viewing — or whatever your number is — if you can’t recognize how easily and consistently games are manipulated by what isn’t called that’s a reflection on you. No one else.

You are exactly the type of fan that these leagues want. Naive and ignorant. And under the false pretense that the players and coaches are solely responsible for what transpires out on the field. Because, well, that’s the popular and tough guy POV. More power to you. But I ain’t that naive — or blind.

Happy viewing.
 
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Rooting against Tom Brady or trying to pretend he was nothing but a system quarterback should have been shelved 15 years ago. Somehow it lingers on Dolphin sites due to desperation to make Dan Marino more than he ever was.

Since you decided to go here, I gotta specifically comment on it. Because IMO it shows a complete lack of understanding.

Even the late great Bill Walsh once said, “Joe Montana was the product of the system, Dan Marino was the system."

I wouldn’t call Brady a product of a system per se, but rather the product of a great team and great organization. Unlike Marino, Brady didn’t play for many super flawed teams. Teams devoid of good defense and special teams. And when the Pats were flawed, they didn’t win Super Bowls. Or even appear in them.

By all means, name one team Tom Brady carried despite a subpar defense and non-dependable kicker. Hint: it never happened.

One thing the masses fail to ever recognize or acknowledge is that football is the ultimate team sport. It’s not singles tennis or an individual olympic sport. It’s not even basketball where one or two players can make an enormous impact playing both ways.

One player can’t win by themself. Not even with 2 or 3 super star players. The entire team has to be good. On both sides of the ball and on special teams. Brady (and Montana) played on many teams that had all the above. Marino did not. Therein lies the difference.

Take prime Marino and swap him for Montana/Young on the 49ers from 1983-1994 or swap him for Brady from 2001-whenever and he’d have been a part of numerous Super Bowls as well. Exactly how many is debatable. But to actually debate that he wasn’t good enough to win with team‘s as talented as those completely impugns one’s knowledge of the game.

Some brief examples of how important teammates are:

If Adam Vinatieri doesn’t make TWO high difficulty FG’s in the 2001 AFC title game during blizzard conditions, Brady’s and the Pats number of SB appearances is down to 8.

We‘ve seen Uwe Von Schamann and Pete Stoyanovich blow playoff games for the Dolphins that could have eventually landed them in SB’s. And Jim Kelly and the Bills saw Scott Norwood cost them a SB win. Things none of those QB’s had control over, but surely suffered from.

If Malcolm Butler doesn’t make a fantastic jump on Russell Wilson’s pass or if Pete Carroll and Co. made a better play call, the Pats don’t win another of their 6 titles. Again, a play that the QB had no part of. And it decided the outcome.

If Kyle Shanahan didn’t have a complete meltdown with situational play calling after being up 28-3, or if Matt Ryan had better situational awareness and not taken silly sacks that any veteran QB — let alone an MVP — should understand not to do the Pats would have even one less title. Again, plays and circumstances that the QB on the opposing side had nothing to do with. The Pats defense took advantage and Brady, again, was a teammate that benefitted.

I get the shoulda, woulda, coulda argument. The reality is that those things ALL happened and the Pats were 6-3 in SB’s with Tom Brady as the starting QB. However, the fact that the above all happened further demonstrates how important the entire team is. Because Tom Brady didn’t make any of those things happen. And without them happening, the Pats would have made 8 SB appearances instead of 9 and they would have been 3-5 in those games rather than the eventual 6-3. (Yes, we could dig even deeper and bring up the Manning/Tyree play that took a title from Brady, but Vinatieri and the defense/st also made big plays to win other SB’s and big games too)

If we‘re talking 3-5, nobody is emphatically touting Brady as goat.

And let’s not forget to acknowledge that the first few SB’s the Pats won with Brady were largely driven by the defense and special teams. NE won their 1st SB holding one of the most prolific offenses to 17 points. They recently won another holding the Rams to 3.

You don’t think Marino or Kelly or Fouts does the same with the benefit of the same type of defense and special teams? Anyone that doesn’t is fooling themselves.

In the end, a QB is at the mercy of how good his team is. Ask John Elway who was no better a QB on the 2 SB winners he was a part of than the 3 teams he led that were annihilated in the SB. In fact, I firmly believe most knowledgeable watchers would say w/o hesitation that Elway was a much better player during the years the Broncos lost. It was only due to his greatness that they overachieved with a severely flawed team that was exposed by much better teams.

I believe Tom Brady is an all-time great. I’ve always been on record believing he is and was better than his contemporary, Peyton Manning. Even back when it was an unpopular take.

But I don’t believe he’s GOAT. Or clearly better than the likes of Montana, Elway, Marino, Fouts, or Kelly. I believe those QB’s (among others) would have accomplished the same if handed the same circumstances. And that even includes playing for 20 years. Because they didn’t get to play during an era in which they couldn’t be hit. I’m sure Montana would have benefited from that change the most. He lost years of his career due to the (now illegal) hits sustained largely against the NY Football Giants.

Funny, but the majority don’t seem to consider Bill Russell to be GOAT despite the 11 titles he had a large hand in winning. The argument against is how great and deep those Celtics teams were. Instead the likes of Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Kareem, and LBJ are largely given that monicker. So "most titles" doesn’t seem to automatically equal GOAT in that instance.

But somehow in the sport of football where one player has even less of an impact and reliance upon teammates is stratospherically higher — that’s when "most titles" seems to automatically equate GOAT?

Sorry, I’ll never buy into that.

Marino was as great as any QB that’s ever played the game. It’s not his fault that MIA never built a well-rounded team like SF, NE, and PIT did for many years. Or even his own Dolphins did a decade before he arrived on scene. Had he led those teams in the early 70’s they’d still have won. And probably won 1or 2 more. I grew up first watching Griese and Csonka. Love them dearly. But Griese was no Marino. And those 70's era teams were good enough to win with Earl Morrall. Because they had a great all-around team. And mostly because they had an elite defense. MIA never had a team from 1983-1999 good enough to win a title with any of Marino's backups.

Now convince me I’m wrong, Mr. Kuchenberg.......
 
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Sounds like he is ready to leave GB. You want him?
no. He;s great but he's 37 going 38. As great as he is, we want a qb that's our future for next 10-15 years. So it's important for a young qb. Deshaun makes sense if miami didn't have to trade the house for him. But someone young like Watson makes sense otherwise, build around Tua who I think will bounce back well with more time to heal and full training camp, etc
 
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