Good DATA Brown VS Benson | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Good DATA Brown VS Benson

Good stuff. Iagree with every part of it.

Hope it happens too.
 
NJFinFury2004 said:
I think we can all stop the QB chatter. Saban is not going to DRAFT a QB. Yes, he has EVERYONE thinking he will, when he went to see Rodgers and Smith. I think he is doing this for one SIMPLE reason.

Crenell wants a QB for the BROWNS, bad!

Ok I think I have figured this out.

75pct of what Sports Writer do is ( Give their opinions) so why can't slugs like us? Nick Saban has been so quiet on what he wants to do in the draft, nobody KNOWS!

Last week he was reported out wooing Rodgers and Smith, 2 of the drafts top QB'S coming out of this years draft. Everyone in the MIAMI media is writing about how much time he has spent with Smith, how he thinks Smith only at age 20, could blossom into one of the better QB'S in the NFL.

Now everyone is saying SABAN will take a QB for the FINS. We all know AJ FEELEY'S stats last year were HORRIBLE, yet this team defined the word " Train Wreck" last season.

Many FIN fans would like to give AJ another chance this season, and IM one of them. I didn't like him at all when he first came here, so why do I now? He showed a PRO ARM making sideline to sideline passes when he had the time with ease, throws a nice LONG BALL, again, when he has the time. IS TOUGH AS NAILS AND EARNED the TEAMS respect. He also improved as the season progressed and the O line and Sammy Morris started playing better.

My guess is Saban sees this also. Bringing in Ferrote is a good idea because of his knowledge of our new O coordinator game plan (Who was ranked #1 by SI last year after MOSS went down and the VIKES still put up big time points)

I think he is ****ING with Crennel the new coach of the BROWNS D coordinator for the PATS HEAD! The BROWNS need a QB BAD! They dont even have Hollocombe anymore and Garcia is now on the LIONS. The Niners will take RODGERS, leaving Smith left. Miami has the SECOND pick and its funny how SABAN hasn't mentioned RODGERS much, stroking Smith off, knowing Crenell has an eye on him.

Even though there are RUMORS Williams might return, even I have to say this mental maniac might change his mind again and quit, how many times has he done this? Saban knows he can't rely on Ricky and may be talking him up so much in the press, so the Browns think he will take Smith.

Saban has also talked up Lamar Gordon, who I still like and Sammy Morris the X Bill FB, who was actually the starting RB on Miami last year. He did AVG 4 yards a carry and I do LIKE HIM, but he isn't an NFL FRANCHISE RB.

Look what I THINK will happen, if GREAT MINDS think alike.

- Crennel falls for the fact Saban might take Smith off the Baord.

- Crennel isn't an idiot and might think the same thing I do, but what if we are wrong and Saban really likes Smith? Then Smith is wearing a FINS UNIFORM next year and the BROWNS are SCREWED

- Just playing it safe, Crennel calls Saban and offers either their 2nd or 3rd round pick, to move up that one spot. Or he gives Miami their 2nd for Miami's 3rd and moves up.

- The BROWNS take Smith

- Miami replaces the draft pick lost for Feeley.

- Saban signs either BENSON or BROWN with the 3rd pick vs the 2nd, saving Miami Cap space.

IM pretty sure that's whats going on here.


Now look at the NEGATIVES ON BROWN=>
Negatives: While he has excellent speed, he needs room to get to top speed and gathers a bit before making the upfield cut along the perimeter … Needs to develop more hip swerve and better moves in order to elude in the open. … Has some stiffness in his hips, which is sometimes exposed when he tries to run routes in the short area (takes a soft angle approach rather than run crisp routes) … Has excellent straight-line speed, but does not have the stop-and-go action to plant and redirect when looking for the cutback lanes.

This is a MAJOR problem. Listed as BENSONS positives are his ability to be elusive and hit a running lane. Benson is the BETTER NFL BACK!
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I really disagree. You suggest one possible reason why Saban would be touting the QBs and it's certainly a possibility, but it's no more likely than he just wants a QB. You do recall that there were reports, not floated by Saban, that Miami had been in daily contact with Rogers, right? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see any basis for you to state with such certainty that Saban isn't picking a QB.

Regarding the Brown negatives, did you read the negatives for Benson?

Negatives: Has very good acceleration off the snap, but labors to maintain that top speed when he gets into the open … Runs decent routes, but because he lacks that second gear and burst upfield, is usually only used on flares, outs and check downs … Willing blocker, but lacks the technique and playing strength to face up and sustain vs. the larger blockers … When he runs tall (mostly on outside runs), he leaves himself exposed and is not the best at securing the ball, as fumble problems plagued him during his career … More of a one-cut type of runner with good straight-line speed, but is not a big juke type … His adequate ball carrage needs improvement, as he carries the ball too low … Plays stiff and lacks technique when asked to block vs. the blitz … Has had several off-field issues that need further review … Needs to shift his hips better when trying to get to the corner … Powerful looking back, but his weight room strength is only adequate and Benson needs to add more power to his game in order to compensate for a lack of blazing speed.

These are, I believe from the same scouting source. The first thing you notice is how much larger the negatives paragraph for Benson is compared to the one for Brown. Second, some of Benson's negatives are major as well, especially for the pro game. I would consider fumbling, blocking and off-field issues to be major concerns. IMO Benson is a better pure runner but weaker as an overall player.
 
Good Post! I'm not sure who would make the better back. I like them both, but they both have positive and negatives. I still would probably still lean towards drafting brown because i think he can bring everything to the table!
 
Fins2theend said:
I have mentioned this before, but there is one flaw in your plan. To move from 3 to 2 would cost more than a 2nd. Thats what the Browns gave up last year to move from 8 to 7(if memory serves) It will take a 2nd and possibly a 4th or 5th in this draft, or a 3rd or 4th in next.
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why would it cost more? because of that draft trade value chart? it is a GUIDELINE not a LAW. so you would rather see saban stay at 2 and draft the same player that he would draft at 3 because you don't feel like a 2nd round pick is enough compensation? you really need to open your mind about each trade opportunity as to how much or little we are helped. if this trade went thru it's like getting a free 2nd rounder plus a smaller contract for our first choice. this would be a GREAT trade. the "draft trade value chart" is a lot like using the kelly blue book values to buy a car out of someones driveway. their car may be worth a lot more or less than the stated value. how good the deal is depends on whats on the table at that moment in time, not what happened last year.
 
dodge said:
why would it cost more? because of that draft trade value chart? it is a GUIDELINE not a LAW. so you would rather see saban stay at 2 and draft the same player that he would draft at 3 because you don't feel like a 2nd round pick is enough compensation? you really need to open your mind about each trade opportunity as to how much or little we are helped. if this trade went thru it's like getting a free 2nd rounder plus a smaller contract for our first choice. this would be a GREAT trade. the "draft trade value chart" is a lot like using the kelly blue book values to buy a car out of someones driveway. their car may be worth a lot more or less than the stated value. how good the deal is depends on whats on the table at that moment in time, not what happened last year.
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I wasnt even going by the pick value chart, because if I was we would actually have to sweeten the deal to get the 2nd. I am going by reality, and dont give me the "not what happened last year" arguement. LAST YEAR the Browns gave up a 2nd to move up one spot to get Winslow, that was from eight to seven. The Giants gave up the WORLD for Eli which was from four to one....(Yes I know Smith isnt a "cant miss" but he is the last remaining QB on the top tier) If you look at the past trades and players remaining after SF (Im assuming) takes Rodgers, the Browns will be hard pressed to get a QB to start immediately since they let Holcombe and Garcia go. So a second would NOT be enough. Everyone thought we had no leverage with Ogun last year, the Browns have even less!
 
PHINSfan said:
I see your logic... Good post. This will only work if San Fran takes Rodgers with the #1 overall though. I would love this scenario. Getting a top RB, maybe a QB with the 2nd rd, and possibly a C (Wilkerson) with the 3rd.
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Wilkerson will be a great choice!
 
Fins2theend said:
I wasnt even going by the pick value chart, because if I was we would actually have to sweeten the deal to get the 2nd. I am going by reality, and dont give me the "not what happened last year" arguement. LAST YEAR the Browns gave up a 2nd to move up one spot to get Winslow, that was from eight to seven. The Giants gave up the WORLD for Eli which was from four to one....(Yes I know Smith isnt a "cant miss" but he is the last remaining QB on the top tier) If you look at the past trades and players remaining after SF (Im assuming) takes Rodgers, the Browns will be hard pressed to get a QB to start immediately since they let Holcombe and Garcia go. So a second would NOT be enough. Everyone thought we had no leverage with Ogun last year, the Browns have even less!
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ok, so lets say the browns won't give anything more than a 2nd and no other team will trade up. now what? does saban draft the player he wants, not smith, and then the browns get smith and not have to give up anything, or does saban draft smith out of spite and miss out on the the player he wants? now is that measley 2nd rounder look a little better to you?
 
Why did you completely ignore any of Bensons negatives? I believe rafael on post #18 posted some of Bensons negatives, check them out. Neither back is perfect, but after the workouts I think it is pretty clear that Brown has moved ahead of Benson. I think Browns team first mentallity is very important, and character counts for something.
 
One thing to note is that if you're picking your franchise QB of the future, you make sure you get the guy you want. So if SF trades with SD and both QB's are on the board when we pick, Crennel may still trade up with us to make sure he gets the guy he most wants.

Personally I think we need to do whatever it takes to get 1st's next year. Instead of Cleveland's 2nd this year, I would rather get their 1st in 2006 for our 2nd in 2006 and we swap 1st's this year. MUST ACCUMULATE 2006 1ST'S!! That draft is loaded at LT and one of the picks could turn out to be high enough for Leinart.
 
I dont care that BROWN can run a 4.3 without Pads ON IN THE 40!! He has problems making people miss, to get through the first HOLE!!!!! That is a BIG BIG PROBLEM!!

Benson is more elusive and QUICKER than Brown within the first 5 yards or so, this is all you need for a 15 yard pickup in the NFL! Brown in the NFL will be getting TACKLED behind the line of scrimmage!

How many RB's last year took one to the house? How many? I would bet not many! The key is moving the chains and getting first downs! Since BENSON can make people miss, he will have an actual BETTER chance of breaking one!

Brown is the benefator of a good workout. BENSON is ready for the PROS! To me its a no brainer!
 
Also let me ADD something else that really scares me about BROWN.

He has STIFF HIPS? He doesn't move his HIPS well? This is what PRO TACKLERS look at, a RB'S HIPS! And this guy can't move them well?

PLEASE DRAFT BENSON!
 
Fins2theend said:
I wasnt even going by the pick value chart, because if I was we would actually have to sweeten the deal to get the 2nd. I am going by reality, and dont give me the "not what happened last year" arguement. LAST YEAR the Browns gave up a 2nd to move up one spot to get Winslow, that was from eight to seven. The Giants gave up the WORLD for Eli which was from four to one....(Yes I know Smith isnt a "cant miss" but he is the last remaining QB on the top tier) If you look at the past trades and players remaining after SF (Im assuming) takes Rodgers, the Browns will be hard pressed to get a QB to start immediately since they let Holcombe and Garcia go. So a second would NOT be enough. Everyone thought we had no leverage with Ogun last year, the Browns have even less!
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also, the 2 examples you use in the giants and browns trading up in past drafts doesn't mean it is the hard and fast rule. i'm sure those trades have been scrutinized heavily and thinking around the league may be they gave up to much. and now would be even more hesitant to give away alot. imo the only way we get more than a 2nd from the browns is if another team enters into the bidding war and drives the price way up.
 
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