Greg Rosenththal: How Patriots & Falcons Rosters were built
- Thread starter Perfect72
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Patriots don't pay their free agent signings big money. Most were discarded players from other teams.
Atlanta's only high priced free agent is Alex Mack (5 yrs/$45 million) and he was well worth the price. Sanu they got for relatively cheap at 5 yrs/$32.5 million. Lots of turnover in the last two years since Quinn got there. He definitely had a vision and addressed both sides of the ball.
Atlanta's only high priced free agent is Alex Mack (5 yrs/$45 million) and he was well worth the price. Sanu they got for relatively cheap at 5 yrs/$32.5 million. Lots of turnover in the last two years since Quinn got there. He definitely had a vision and addressed both sides of the ball.
Was just going to say that. They killed it in the mid rounds. We need to hire some of their scouts
they usually trade their 1st for more picks. that's what it seemed like for a few years at least
Perfect72
It's Only Happened ONCE!
Not that big a deal when you are picking at the end of the 1st round all the time.
Not much difference in talent and if you can get an extra pick or so all the better.
I'm sure that's what MIT told them with Harvard concurrence.
Patriots have had their share of busts. They're actually not very good at the draft but they are better than everyone else in free agency. They find discarded players or players who's value is down, sign them for cheap (or trade a low draft pick for them) and then fit them right into their scheme. And if those players think their value is more than the Patriots think it is they get traded for more picks to be used down the road.
I can remember a few picks the Pats made that were big disappointments. Terrence Wheatley (2nd round), Shawn Crable (3rd round, who I thought would have worked out in their 3-4 at the time), Ron Brace (2nd round), Brandon Tate (3rd round), Jermaine Cunningham (2nd round), Taylor Price (3rd round...I really thought he was going to be good too...really fast WR), Ryan Mallett (3rd round...I saw that one coming lol), Tavon Wilson (2nd round), Aaron Dobson (2nd round), Dominique Easley (1st round), Jordan Richards (2nd round), Geneo Grissom (3rd round), Cyrus Jones (2nd round)...not great draft picks but they know how to manage their roster pretty well. Big money to Brady, Gronk (although that one might bite them given his injury history) and a few defenders, everyone else is on lease.
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Great breakdown, thanks Perfect72!
Looking at these rosters, it looks like the heavy lifting was done over drafts for 8 years (New England) and 6 years (really 5 for Atlanta). There are outliers, like the very long careered positions like K and QB, but the meat of the team (trenches) mostly looks the same. They drafted good players and added solid free agents to plug holes, not be stars. This has long been my preferred strategy for team building.
The problem is ... that it is all based on getting 2 or 3 solid to good players every year in the draft, which has been difficult for us to do in the past. Looking at our own build, I think we can say that if we started with the 2010 draft, we're not too far off pace. Consider this, (Strong starters still with the team in bold):
2016: Laremy Tunsil, Xavien Howard, Kenyan Drake, Leonte Caroo, Jakeem Grant
2015: DeVante Parker, Jordan Phillips, Bobby McCain, Jay Ajayi, Tony Lippett
2014: Ju'Wuan James, Jarvis Landry, Walt Aikens, Terence Fede
2013: Dion Jordan, Jelani Jenkins, Dion Sims, Mike Gilislee (let go in FA), Don Jones (let go in FA)
2012: Ryan Tannehill, Olivier Vernon (not extended early as a FA), Lamar Miller (not extended early as a FA), Rishard Matthews (let go in FA).
2011: Mike Pouncey, Charles Clay (let go in FA), Jimmy Wilson (let go in FA)
2010: Jared Odrick (not extended early as a FA), Koa Misi, Nolan Carroll (not extended early as a FA), Reshad Jones
That's good enough drafting. We can debate whether it is good or great drafting, and there's always misfires, busts and people who go on to blossom elsewhere, but looking at building a roster, it is no longer our complete failure of our scouts and GM's to find talent. Sure, we're much better at finding DL and WR talent than we are at finding OL or LB talent, but hey, at least we're finding talent. As I mentioned earlier, we can fill in the holes with solid role players if we have enough talent in the draft.
Sure, the GM's need more foresight to extend guys like Reshad Jones (check, but ready to do again), Jarvis Landry (we need to check this soon), and Olivier Vernon (X marks the failure spot) before they become exorbitantly expensive. I still feel like a Jared Odrick should be here instead of an Earl Mitchell and a Nolan Carroll should have been extended rather than spend so many draft picks and churn so many FA's just to fill a position we should have already had filled at a reasonable cap cost. But, we can no longer blame the scouts for not finding talent in the draft. Now it is a matter of finding scouts who can properly evaluate certain positions, like OL and LB.
Tannenbaum has come under a lot of criticism, and rightfully so, but he has made some very good moves as well. Suh has earned every penny. The faith in Wake is fully justified. The courage and conviction to draft Tunsil was shrewd and the wisdom to keep Albert as his mentor was a great decision. Landing quality players like Tunsil and Howard and surrounding them with guys who can teach and guide them as players and professionals is key.
This model that works for New England and Atlanta can work for us as well. Our talent level is up. Our team has a lot of young building blocks. We have been drafting good enough (debatable how well, but I think we can all agree that it is much improved from earlier decades). Now it's up to Grier, Tannenbaum and the front office to show consistent foresight to be like the Green Bay Packers and extend our key players EARLY. Let's not have another Jared Odrick or Olivier Vernon situation arise. Let's get Reshad Jones and Jarvis Landry signed this offseason, preferably before next year's cap hike raises their costs sky high.
Sure, New England couldn't re-sign Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones, two very good players, so they spun them off in trades, but they keep most of their core players. And when many of them are not supreme athletes (short WR's, average quickness OL and journeymen RB's), it is not nearly as hard to re-sign them.
I believe the time has come (overdue IMHO) to adopt this strategy of keeping your good players rather than making a big splash in FA. For every success story like Ndamakong Suh, we have two failures like Mike Wallace and the LB swap (Dannell Ellerbe and Phillip Wheeler to replace the good LB's we had in Karlos Dansby and Burnett). Free Agency is a gamble. Re-signing your own proven productive players early is less risky. I believe our roster can get to where those two teams are now. We just have to keep drafting good enough and start extending our good players earlier.
This could be our story in the not too distant future.
Looking at these rosters, it looks like the heavy lifting was done over drafts for 8 years (New England) and 6 years (really 5 for Atlanta). There are outliers, like the very long careered positions like K and QB, but the meat of the team (trenches) mostly looks the same. They drafted good players and added solid free agents to plug holes, not be stars. This has long been my preferred strategy for team building.
The problem is ... that it is all based on getting 2 or 3 solid to good players every year in the draft, which has been difficult for us to do in the past. Looking at our own build, I think we can say that if we started with the 2010 draft, we're not too far off pace. Consider this, (Strong starters still with the team in bold):
2016: Laremy Tunsil, Xavien Howard, Kenyan Drake, Leonte Caroo, Jakeem Grant
2015: DeVante Parker, Jordan Phillips, Bobby McCain, Jay Ajayi, Tony Lippett
2014: Ju'Wuan James, Jarvis Landry, Walt Aikens, Terence Fede
2013: Dion Jordan, Jelani Jenkins, Dion Sims, Mike Gilislee (let go in FA), Don Jones (let go in FA)
2012: Ryan Tannehill, Olivier Vernon (not extended early as a FA), Lamar Miller (not extended early as a FA), Rishard Matthews (let go in FA).
2011: Mike Pouncey, Charles Clay (let go in FA), Jimmy Wilson (let go in FA)
2010: Jared Odrick (not extended early as a FA), Koa Misi, Nolan Carroll (not extended early as a FA), Reshad Jones
That's good enough drafting. We can debate whether it is good or great drafting, and there's always misfires, busts and people who go on to blossom elsewhere, but looking at building a roster, it is no longer our complete failure of our scouts and GM's to find talent. Sure, we're much better at finding DL and WR talent than we are at finding OL or LB talent, but hey, at least we're finding talent. As I mentioned earlier, we can fill in the holes with solid role players if we have enough talent in the draft.
Sure, the GM's need more foresight to extend guys like Reshad Jones (check, but ready to do again), Jarvis Landry (we need to check this soon), and Olivier Vernon (X marks the failure spot) before they become exorbitantly expensive. I still feel like a Jared Odrick should be here instead of an Earl Mitchell and a Nolan Carroll should have been extended rather than spend so many draft picks and churn so many FA's just to fill a position we should have already had filled at a reasonable cap cost. But, we can no longer blame the scouts for not finding talent in the draft. Now it is a matter of finding scouts who can properly evaluate certain positions, like OL and LB.
Tannenbaum has come under a lot of criticism, and rightfully so, but he has made some very good moves as well. Suh has earned every penny. The faith in Wake is fully justified. The courage and conviction to draft Tunsil was shrewd and the wisdom to keep Albert as his mentor was a great decision. Landing quality players like Tunsil and Howard and surrounding them with guys who can teach and guide them as players and professionals is key.
This model that works for New England and Atlanta can work for us as well. Our talent level is up. Our team has a lot of young building blocks. We have been drafting good enough (debatable how well, but I think we can all agree that it is much improved from earlier decades). Now it's up to Grier, Tannenbaum and the front office to show consistent foresight to be like the Green Bay Packers and extend our key players EARLY. Let's not have another Jared Odrick or Olivier Vernon situation arise. Let's get Reshad Jones and Jarvis Landry signed this offseason, preferably before next year's cap hike raises their costs sky high.
Sure, New England couldn't re-sign Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones, two very good players, so they spun them off in trades, but they keep most of their core players. And when many of them are not supreme athletes (short WR's, average quickness OL and journeymen RB's), it is not nearly as hard to re-sign them.
I believe the time has come (overdue IMHO) to adopt this strategy of keeping your good players rather than making a big splash in FA. For every success story like Ndamakong Suh, we have two failures like Mike Wallace and the LB swap (Dannell Ellerbe and Phillip Wheeler to replace the good LB's we had in Karlos Dansby and Burnett). Free Agency is a gamble. Re-signing your own proven productive players early is less risky. I believe our roster can get to where those two teams are now. We just have to keep drafting good enough and start extending our good players earlier.
This could be our story in the not too distant future.