Grier And Ross On Tannehill

[dolphintodd]

I don’t think anyone would argue that Ryan could execute an offense on script with a good oline and run game behind him at a decent level, however the issues were always there when protection broke down, and those issues are only going to intensify on the road, in big game situations, QBs have to make some individual plays off script to help their team convert pressure situations (within the pocket, outside the pocket, running for a first down because that’s what an athletic qb should do to help their team), physically, instinctively and mentally he was never up to the task..those flaws were detectable very early and never he never showed consistency in that he deserved the trust you have to have in those specific situations.

Besides that fatal flaw, imo he struggled with the speed of the game after the first read wasn’t an option, he struggled multitasking to get through progressions while trying to navigate a congested pocket, he also struggled with touch throws, fades, screen game, back shoulder game was sub par, and lastly I don’t believe Ryan had good vision of the field, I think it was a more compartmentalized version of the field.

I did respect him, because I never saw a guy play college football at that level play qb and receiver and still have a modicum of success at the NFL level, he was and is unprecedented in that regard, also he was tough, but when staring down the barrel becomes your only exceptional trait, that’s not gonna be good enough to win championships..

Very well said.

 

[hoops]

that’s fabricated bs about struggling to go thru progressions but given where it’s coming from I’m not surprised.

Guy couldn’t tell you the progressions if his life depended on it.

As for the drop off in attempts after week 5 of 16 probably has a lot to do with scrapping the tempo based offense

 

[russianbear]

But somehow Brock Osweiler and a broken down Peyton Manning who could barely throw it farther than my mother were good enough to win a SB just recently.

Gee wiz, I wonder if it helps to have an elite defense in order for the QB to be "good enough", not to mention the supporting cast on offense.

Football is the ultimate team game and always will be, sure Ryan had his shortcomings as a QB, but this entire organization has sucked for so long I highly doubt any QB's since 2012 not named Patrick Mahomes would have thrived with queasy and Gase's olphins.

I STILL remember that T.O queasy called with the time running out against GB (and being pissed in real time), could have changed the whole season but nope, someone got queasy and decided to give ARod plenty of time LOL.

Congrats on pointing out that defense is necessary to get to and win the Superbowl. 10/10 A+

If you refer to my post, I said the defense was an issue as well, but you glazed over that in your ruthless pursuit to defend Tannehill.

That Broncos defense was elite, like all-time elite. That doesn't make Brock Osweiler or Peyton Manning (2015) good enough. That's why Brock isn't a starter and Peyton literally retired the next year. Although it's funny to have to use Peyton Manning in that context because he had thrown over 90 touchdowns over the previous 2 seasons and was more than good enough his entire freaking career. Now people use his broken-neck, last season as some sort of Martyr as to winning a SB with a crappy QB. Ironic.

BUT

If the Dolphins had that defense "Wade Phillips' defense has put up historic numbers. It was No. 1 in total defense (283.1 yards), No. 1 in pass defense (199.6), No. 1 in sacks (52), No. 3 against the run (83.6), No. 4 in scoring (18.5) and No. 3 in defensive touchdowns (5)." that still wouldn't make him good enough, maybe with that defense we could've won a SB with Tannehill, but if your strategy as a team owner is stick with a QB who isn't good enough and just hope you manage to field a top-10 defense of all time, then your strategy sucks.

I'm very, very glad we're moving on.

 

[hoops]

No that isn't taking the ball out of his hands. Thats an offense that is finally able to have some balance. An offense that is getting out to some leads and allowing the clock to run down via the run game.

Many of the worst teams in the NFL have 2:1 Pass:Run ratios because they are always behind on the scoreboard and can't run the football. Has nothing to do with not trusting the QB or taking the ball out of his hands in a negative way. . . come on.

I mean I said he was trash in the Rams game, but they didn't take the ball out of his hands then . . . which goes against them not being able to trust/rely on him. Still the end result deserves high marks, even if the first 54 minutes didn't.

We were bludgened the first 54 minutes of that game at the los.

It’s only after we went into 4 minute o and then 2 minute that we did anything.

And the sub in big red left tackle stood on his head one on one with no help vs Robert Quinn. Function of the 4 and then 2 minute offense ask

 

[Gsmack_42]

that’s fabricated bs about struggling to go thru progressions but given where it’s coming from I’m not surprised.

Guy couldn’t tell you the progressions if his life depended on it.

As for the drop off in attempts after week 5 of 16 probably has a lot to do with scrapping the tempo based offense

That tempo based offense was doomed, and had no tempo. It seemed atleast to me Ryan was spending most of his time getting his position players in the right place. Then it was a race to get the play off before a delay of game penalty.

 

[AdamD13]

Not entirely true. The Phins beat the Steelers handily during the regular season. In that playoff game, the Steelers had gotten healthier and were near full strength. The Phins were missing their starting QB and 5 starters on defense.
If the situation were reversed and it was a home playoff game, the Phins beat them easily.

The following is why your "Not entirely true," is not entirely true...

When understanding the schedule it doesn't just mean playing bad teams, it also means playing a team at home when temperature and injuries are a factor.

The Dolphins played at home with temperatures in the mid-80s and a humid day which northern teams generally wear down (see Chicago game this year) and Miami wore the Steelers down. This wasn't a game in which Tannehill carried the Dolphins to victory, this was a game in which Ajayi rushed for 204 yards and 2 TDs.

Also Roethlesberger got hurt in 2nd quarter.

1. Ben Roethlisberger was nowhere near 100 percent. Let's get this out of the way first. The Steelers are still one of the best football teams in the league, but operated with a roughly 50 percent effective Roethlisberger for the entire second half. Roethlisberger threw his first pick on the play he got injured on, then returned after the break to hurl a wobbling pass at a receiver with two defenders lurking clearly underneath. The team's final touchdown drive of the game was an opportunity for Pittsburgh to show just how deep they are at the wide receiver position, as Cobi Hamilton, Eli Rogers and Le'Veon Bell carried a one-legged quarterback to the end zone.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-leads-dolphins-past-injured-big-ben-steelers

Other than beating the Steelers at home here are the following wins when Tannehill started that year:

Home Wins
1st worst team: 1-15 Browns by 6 in OT (Tannehill 3 turnovers)
2nd worst team: 2-14 SF 49ers by 7
6th worst team: 5-11 NYJ by 4
10th worst team: 7-9 Bills by 3 (Ajayi rushes for 214 yards and TD)
13th worst team: 7-8-1 Cards by 3 (Matt Moore led GWD after Tannehill done for season)

Visiting Wins
5th worst team: 4-12 Rams by 4
7th worst team: 5-11 chargers by 7

That was it under Tannehill...out of the 8 wins, 7 against losing records who combined for a 31-80-1 record (.279 winning %) by a combined 34 points including 6 in OT against the worst team in league, 7 against bottom 13 teams, 6 against bottom 10 teams, didn't beat a bottom 13 team by more than 7 points and the one quality win (Steelers) was at home on a warm and humid day with the QB playing injured during the second half.

As far as Maimi would have faired better in the playoffs with Tannehill, Matt Moore and the Dolphins offense literally out performed Ryan Tannehill and the Dolphins offense in every single significant category during that year.

Of course that is assuming Tannehill even gets Miami to the playoffs as the other times the Dolphins under Tannehill had a favorable schedule at the end of the season in the playoff hunt he choked each time.

Wins under Matt Moore:

Visiting Wins
6th worst team: 5-11 NYJ by 21
10th worst team: 7-9 Bills by 3

Overall out of Miami's 10 wins 8 of them were against bottom 10 teams, 9 against teams with losing record and the 1 quality is when Roethlesberger was injured for the second half on a warm, humid day at home.

You might think that is a playoff team. I call that a fortunate team the schedule allowing a team to play a lot of bad teams at home and that team played well enough to win close games.

To the Dolphins credit they consistently beat the bad teams, however that is not sustainable to getting to the playoffs on a regular basis which is why Miami only has been there one other time under similar conditions in 2008 since the 2001 season.

 

[TannDaMan17]

Congrats on pointing out that defense is necessary to get to and win the Superbowl. 10/10 A+

If you refer to my post, I said the defense was an issue as well, but you glazed over that in your ruthless pursuit to defend Tannehill.

That Broncos defense was elite, like all-time elite. That doesn't make Brock Osweiler or Peyton Manning (2015) good enough. That's why Brock isn't a starter and Peyton literally retired the next year. Although it's funny to have to use Peyton Manning in that context because he had thrown over 90 touchdowns over the previous 2 seasons and was more than good enough his entire freaking career. Now people use his broken-neck, last season as some sort of Martyr as to winning a SB with a crappy QB. Ironic.

BUT

If the Dolphins had that defense "Wade Phillips' defense has put up historic numbers. It was No. 1 in total defense (283.1 yards), No. 1 in pass defense (199.6), No. 1 in sacks (52), No. 3 against the run (83.6), No. 4 in scoring (18.5) and No. 3 in defensive touchdowns (5)." that still wouldn't make him good enough, maybe with that defense we could've won a SB with Tannehill, but if your strategy as a team owner is stick with a QB who isn't good enough and just hope you manage to field a top-10 defense of all time, then your strategy sucks.

I'm very, very glad we're moving on.

I get why u and so many people are glad we’re moving on, he’s getting older and a cheap young QB makes sense for this rebuild. But Tannehill was good enough imo in the very first year he didn’t have an incompetent HC. Now was he ever elite no, but even the all time great QBs like RW only won a SB with a defense that was BETTER than the Broncos (and hasn’t since with other stacked squads), f*** ur stats did u see what they did to a healthy PM? Marino never won a SB, and that’s all that matters in this game and he was the best. It takes a team to win a SB, not just a great QB and that’s what Miami’s real problem has been, the entire 53 plus coaching. But hey, not everyone sees the big picture :wink:

 

[djphinfan]

that’s fabricated bs about struggling to go thru progressions but given where it’s coming from I’m not surprised.

Guy couldn’t tell you the progressions if his life depended on it.

As for the drop off in attempts after week 5 of 16 probably has a lot to do with scrapping the tempo based offense

you missed the tannehill evaluation, period, on many levels, for a long period of time, insulting many people along the way, and this is the way you deal with it, by trying to hang on and insult, maybe you should have a walk of atonement on the site.:)

For the record, this person is upset that I didn’t engage with him and Sons of Shula about last years linebacker, Tremaine Edmunds, there was a gif of him being out of position on a play and they wanted me to read his responsibility on the play, I had stated my opinion about the player in detail and they couldn’t accept it, they were rude and insulting, just because they felt differently..

 

[Dolphinitis]

LOL
who cares who the Ds beat during the regular season when it comes crunch time they fold and choke. you could have set your watch to their relentless choking. its been uncanny.
they beat pitt and ne in the regular season but you know chances are 00.000 of the Ds beating either should they have found themselves in the playoffs.

 

[Rick Cartman]

The following is why your "Not entirely true," is not entirely true...

When understanding the schedule it doesn't just mean playing bad teams, it also means playing a team at home when temperature and injuries are a factor.

The Dolphins played at home with temperatures in the mid-80s and a humid day which northern teams generally wear down (see Chicago game this year) and Miami wore the Steelers down. This wasn't a game in which Tannehill carried the Dolphins to victory, this was a game in which Ajayi rushed for 204 yards and 2 TDs.

Also Roethlesberger got hurt in 2nd quarter.

1. Ben Roethlisberger was nowhere near 100 percent. Let's get this out of the way first. The Steelers are still one of the best football teams in the league, but operated with a roughly 50 percent effective Roethlisberger for the entire second half. Roethlisberger threw his first pick on the play he got injured on, then returned after the break to hurl a wobbling pass at a receiver with two defenders lurking clearly underneath. The team's final touchdown drive of the game was an opportunity for Pittsburgh to show just how deep they are at the wide receiver position, as Cobi Hamilton, Eli Rogers and Le'Veon Bell carried a one-legged quarterback to the end zone.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-leads-dolphins-past-injured-big-ben-steelers

Other than beating the Steelers at home here are the following wins when Tannehill started that year:

Home Wins
1st worst team: 1-15 Browns by 6 in OT (Tannehill 3 turnovers)
2nd worst team: 2-14 SF 49ers by 7
6th worst team: 5-11 NYJ by 4
10th worst team: 7-9 Bills by 3 (Ajayi rushes for 214 yards and TD)
13th worst team: 7-8-1 Cards by 3 (Matt Moore led GWD after Tannehill done for season)

Visiting Wins
5th worst team: 4-12 Rams by 4
7th worst team: 5-11 chargers by 7

That was it under Tannehill...out of the 8 wins, 7 against losing records who combined for a 31-80-1 record (.279 winning %) by a combined 34 points including 6 in OT against the worst team in league, 7 against bottom 13 teams, 6 against bottom 10 teams, didn't beat a bottom 13 team by more than 7 points and the one quality win (Steelers) was at home on a warm and humid day with the QB playing injured during the second half.

As far as Maimi would have faired better in the playoffs with Tannehill, Matt Moore and the Dolphins offense literally out performed Ryan Tannehill and the Dolphins offense in every single significant category during that year.

Of course that is assuming Tannehill even gets Miami to the playoffs as the other times the Dolphins under Tannehill had a favorable schedule at the end of the season in the playoff hunt he choked each time.

Wins under Matt Moore:

Visiting Wins
6th worst team: 5-11 NYJ by 21
10th worst team: 7-9 Bills by 3

Overall out of Miami's 10 wins 8 of them were against bottom 10 teams, 9 against teams with losing record and the 1 quality is when Roethlesberger was injured for the second half on a warm, humid day at home.

You might think that is a playoff team. I call that a fortunate team the schedule allowing a team to play a lot of bad teams at home and that team played well enough to win close games.

To the Dolphins credit they consistently beat the bad teams, however that is not sustainable to getting to the playoffs on a regular basis which is why Miami only has been there one other time under similar conditions in 2008 since the 2001 season.

It's all conjecture, but that 2016 game @ Buffalo was a knife fight in a ditch. I don't think Tannehill would of rose to the occasion.

My evidence is the turds Tannehill laid in Buffalo throughout his career.

 

[djphinfan]

that’s fabricated bs about struggling to go thru progressions but given where it’s coming from I’m not surprised.

Guy couldn’t tell you the progressions if his life depended on it.

As for the drop off in attempts after week 5 of 16 probably has a lot to do with scrapping the tempo based offense

Also, If you weren’t so eager to insult and just be a hater, I didn’t state that he struggled in the art of reading progressions, but sometimes when you go through progressions, you have to have an ability to maneuver the pocket to get through them, that’s where the weakness was..

 

[hoops]

you missed the tannehill evaluation, period, on many levels, for a long period of time, insulting many people along the way, and this is the way you deal with it, by trying to hang on and insult, maybe you should have a walk of atonement on the site.:)

For the record, this person is upset that I didn’t engage with him and Sons of Shula about last years linebacker, Tremaine Edmunds, there was a gif of him being out of position on a play and they wanted me to read his responsibility on the play, I had stated my opinion about the player in detail and they couldn’t accept it, they were rude and insulting, just because they felt differently..

What are you even talking about calling me out here again. You can’t even produce a top 20 draft targets list when challenging (of your own doing mind you) and then pressed into action. Let alone provide any gif play analysis.

You are small potatoes dj. Stop wasting my time

And stop with the passive aggressive poor me bs. Either come to action or shut it

 

[djphinfan]

What are you even talking about. You can’t even produce a top 20 draft targets list when challenging of your own doing and then pressed into action. Let alone provide any gif play analysis.

You are small potatoes dj. Stop wasting my time

You keep posting insults after I give my opinion about players, even though I have never disrespected you in any way, why would I do anything you ask..I won’t.

However, if you wanna play, come out and play on my terms..let’s talk Qbs.

We know you were really bad evaluating Ryan Tannehill relative to the ceiling you projected for the payer, you weren’t even close, and insulted people who disagreed with you along the way, you should be humbled, but obviously not.

So let’s try this one,

Tell the board How did you feel about Pat Mahomes, tell us your pre draft evaluation and projection of the player at this level, and why did you wanna stick with Tannehill when he was in range?

 

[superphin]

 

[hoops]

You keep posting insults after I give my opinion about players, even though I have never respected you in any way, why would I do anything you ask..I won’t.

However, if you wanna play, come out and play on my terms..let’s talk Qbs.

We know you were really bad evaluating Ryan Tannehill relative to the ceiling you projected for the payer, you weren’t even close, and insulted people who disagreed with you along the way, you should be humbled, but obviously not.

So let’s try this one,

Tell the board How did you feel about Pat Mahomes, tell us your pre draft evaluation and projection of the player at this level, and why did you wanna stick with Tannehill when he was in range?

You stop with that passive aggressive womens tee talk and maybe we can get somewhere. It seems to be your go to move.

You keep wanting to throw some damn qb eval of yours in my face for reasons I have no damn idea. Miami wasn’t even in the qb market when mahomes came out so why would I evaluate damn QBs then? Everything I have done has always been with Miami in mind.

It would have been a waste of time. They had their qb at that time. Their actions said as mucb and on tape at that point assuming his acl was gonna be a go they had no reason to.

So when you keep trying to throw this stuff in my face cause you think you got something right you barking at the wrong tree. And the guys I did have high draft targets for Miami in that class all balled out as pros.

If you want to get after me for my qb evals in tbe 18 class feel free cause even though I was very confident Miami wasn’t in that market that’s the first one under the Tannehill era that I actually thought Miami might be in tbe qb top pick draft market potentially and I studied them in some depth even. More due to medical than anything else. And guess what? Their actions said it again.

Rosen was a primary Miami pick target for me in that class. Yep he was. Over anything else even cause qb trumps all. But in terms of my qb board going into that draft I had mayfield 4th. Right now that looks like a whiff but I’ve been doing this long enough to know what usually gets drafted #1 overall and it’s not 6 foot and 4.8 from the big 12 but I learned a lesson in 18 in that the prototype and college pro style isn’t where the games at right now. That’s why I had Darnold (intangibles and demeanor) and rosen (scheme fit) and josh Allen (prototype and ceiling) even over mayfield. And guess what so did slimm.

As for this Tremaine Edmunds stuff I could care less what your perceived slight on my end was. You barely even registered with me then. You didn’t seem to understand that prototype size and speed and poa play at lb with hip fluidity and 3 down range and ability is always worth a top 15 pick even if the player ceiling is 2 years away and the instincts in terms of mike ask were a work in progress. That’s on you I don’t care now any more than I cared then. That poa play is rare as it gets with that size and 3 down range and fluidity.

What I don’t like is when you carry yourself as something and don’t play you do despite this poor me crap you pass off and then when you do come out and say something you don’t have tbe imo ability if I’m being honest or nuts to actually back up your analysis with presented to you gif opportunity.

In that regard you are no different than a lot of the loud mouth no action posters on this site.