Guard is not a good option with first 3-4 picks

[Foo27]

You have needs at DE, LB (both inside and outside) CB, FS, basically every unit of the defense can and should be upgraded yet year after year people are calling for guards? As high as the 8th overall pick. It boggles the mind how these people think DRAFTING a guard, or worse yet a T who has to be converted to guard is the answer. its not for several reasons:

1) what impact will a rookie guard, especially a converted one have?
2) what is the cost of passing on a better player for a relatively disposable position that doesn't impact the game as much as a LB or CB would?
3) why does ANY coach or team need 4 first rounders on his OL?
4) wouldn't you rather have a free agent guard who knows what's he's doing on Day 1?
5) How can you justify a first or second round Guard over an SEC impact defender in any round of this draft?
6) Brandon Albert just played in the Pro Bowl- can we please stop the rationalization of replacing him with this insipid non-stop never ending discussion on adding ANOTHER first or second day OL?
7) Does the constitution of playoff teams OL's have any bearing on how we should build our OL.

 

[datruth55]

If you're not picking a Guard in the first 4 rounds then don't pick one because the likelihood of one being starter material after the 4th round at some point in his career is pretty unlikely. So you can keep getting the QB killed, not be able to run the ball, not be able to kill the clock in the 4:00 offense, and keep losing games because your offense is scoring 17 ppg. Good plan.

 

[trojanma]

Also who is talking about zoning in on OL as the primary option.
Everyone is saying take Jack or Hargreaves if either is their.

But if Ronnie Stanley ends up being BPA at 8 which is certainly a possibility if there is a run on defense then we would be idiots not to consider taking him.

True LT prospects don't grow on trees.

 

[Smith21]

As much as we need 4 positions on defense we need 4 positions on offense. TE, guard, swing tackle, and Rb. Sorry but if a good tackle falls to 8 you take him, get a old linebacker from FA. Fill a few holes in the draft. It works both ways. Young guys who can open holes will help out immensely

 

[Smith21]

Most important positions in football DE, CB, Lt and qb. If you believe you have a top 10 talent in any of those positions I won't complain after the draft

 

[utahphinsfan]

Answers to OP's questions...

1) Keeping Ryan Upright
2) see #1
3) It hasn't hurt the Niners.
4) It depends on who is avialble and how they fit w/ the phins scheme
5) I would take Alexander (LSU), Treotola or Kirkand (Arkansas) or Garrett (Stanford) in rd 2 if Jack/Ramsey were picked at #8. I'd also take Stanley over DeForest Buckner if Lawson & Ogbah were no longer avialble.
6) As for Stanley if picked at #8 playing OG temporarily, its called depth & planning for the future.
7) Whose to say the Niners method (above), the cowboys under Jimmy, or Carolina's current OL is the right philosophy?

 

[datruth55]

The shortsightedness of this post is that the OP doesn't realize you can't fix this defense with one draft...but you sure as heck can fix this offense in one draft. If we keep Miller and Matthews all we really need is a Guard and a swing OT. Depth can be addressed in free agency.

 

[Foo27]

Answers to OP's questions...

1) Keeping Ryan Upright
Better coaching, pocket awareness and a free agent guard

2) see #1
3) It hasn't hurt the Niners.
Really? how're they doing now?

4) It depends on who is avialble and how they fit w/ the phins scheme

5) I would take Alexander (LSU), Treotola or Kirkand (Arkansas) or Garrett (Stanford) in rd 2 if Jack/Ramsey were picked at #8. I'd also take Stanley over DeForest Buckner if Lawson & Ogbah were no longer avialble.
6) As for Stanley if picked at #8 playing OG temporarily, its called depth & planning for the future.
It's calling reaching to fill a position with a guy who hasn't played that position before.
also called panicking

7) Whose to say the Niners method (above), the cowboys under Jimmy, or Carolina's current OL is the right philosophy?

You didn't address any of the questions posed before. You have it locked in your brain as you do every year that the answer to a poor OL is wasting more first day picks on them. Not good.

 

[BlueFin]

It always depends on who falls...I think we are looking at Hargreaves and Stanley as what will be there at 8....Could be a good QB tradedown position.

 

[Foo27]

The shortsightedness of this post is that the OP doesn't realize you can't fix this defense with one draft...but you sure as heck can fix this offense in one draft. If we keep Miller and Matthews all we really need is a Guard and a swing OT. Depth can be addressed in free agency.

You are delusional. So we should waste more high picks on Guards and ahem, swing tackles, because you and all your obsessed with OL buddies say so?

This is a draft that would go a long way in fixing our D if we devote the first few days to doing that. Nothing about some average guard who will have a minimal impact next year or Ronnie Stanley who isn't a guard and would have to move to guard suggests that any of you have any smart thoughts about where the first four picks should go in this draft.

again, I'll ask a rational question that you guys who advocate for Stanley or mediocre guards can't or won't seem to answer:

How many high picks does a team need to invest in OL?

in the spirit of National Signing Day I'll remind you all that this isn't college where you can devote endless and perennial resources towards acquiring a single position

 

[Foo27]

The shortsightedness of this post is that the OP doesn't realize you can't fix this defense with one draft...but you sure as heck can fix this offense in one draft. If we keep Miller and Matthews all we really need is a Guard and a swing OT. Depth can be addressed in free agency.

And one more thing, if you want to use the OP tag, there are several people in here who every year spout the "We need OL, first last and always" mantra.

It is tired, boring and wrong. If anyone in here advocates taking Ronnie Stanley over a great CB, DE or LB they are misguided and a prisoner of this OL mentality.

J'Wan James is a good player but we could have done better a few years ago in the draft had we gone BPA
Anyone who tells me that Stanley is the best player for us at #8 or that ANY guard is better than a guy like Kentrell Brother in round 2, I can't buy it.

You're giving me a Joe Philbin argument that we can't really coach these guys so let's increase our odds by over drafting these guys.

 

[datruth55]

You are delusional. So we should waste more high picks on Guards and ahem, swing tackles, because you and all your obsessed with OL buddies say so?

This is a draft that would go a long way in fixing our D if we devote the first few days to doing that. Nothing about some average guard who will have a minimal impact next year or Ronnie Stanley who isn't a guard and would have to move to guard suggests that any of you have any smart thoughts about where the first four picks should go in this draft.

again, I'll ask a rational question that you guys who advocate for Stanley or mediocre guards can't or won't seem to answer:

How many high picks does a team need to invest in OL?

in the spirit of National Signing Day I'll remind you all that this isn't college where you can devote endless and perennial resources towards acquiring a single position

Who said anything about mediocre Guards other than you? If you draft one in the 5th round or later you are sure to get a mediocre Guard. This draft actually has some very good Guards in it. Cody Whitehair, Josh Garnett, Nick Martin and Christian Westerman are all good fits and are projected in rounds 2-4.

In your delusional view we can apparently build the 2000 Ravens defense in one off season and give up 12 points a game...that's what we'll need if you plan on not addressing the Guard position or backup O-line. And no one said take a swing OT in the first 4 rounds...but we sure as heck need one...unless you plan on rolling with Dallas Thomas again.

 

[Foo27]

Who said anything about mediocre Guards other than you? If you draft one in the 5th round or later you are sure to get a mediocre Guard. This draft actually has some very good Guards in it. Cody Whitehair, Josh Garnett, Nick Martin and Christian Westerman are all good fits and are projected in rounds 2-4.

In your delusional view we can apparently build the 2000 Ravens defense in one off season and give up 12 points a game...that's what we'll need if you plan on not addressing the Guard position or backup O-line. And no one said take a swing OT in the first 4 rounds...but we sure as heck need one...unless you plan on rolling with Dallas Thomas again.

I don't see how a second round guard has more value or impact than Johnathan Bullard, Kentrell Brothers, Antonio Morrison, or any number of corners or LB's

The issue here is that you and other put way, way too much stock into the idea that high draft picks on the OL mean a good OL. isn't true and won't happen

 

[datruth55]

I don't see how a second round guard has more value or impact than Johnathan Bullard, Kentrell Brothers, Antonio Morrison, or any number of corners or LB's

The issue here is that you and other put way, way too much stock into the idea that high draft picks on the OL mean a good OL. isn't true and won't happen

So I guess you missed last season as the Guard play pretty much ruined the offense. Well I guess they didn't ruin the offense...outside of run blocking and pass blocking they were fine.

 

[Foo27]

So I guess you missed last season as the Guard play pretty much ruined the offense. Well I guess they didn't ruin the offense...outside of run blocking and pass blocking they were fine.

You're not getting this at all. Fix the guard spot through free agency. Don't do it through the top of the draft. It hasn't worked through the draft and it won't. Philbin had Ireland and Hickey's ear enough that they wasted picks on Dallas Thomas and possibly Turner and Douglas.

I'd rather spend picks 1-4 on guys who can make a difference who play position that don't take years to learn and develop as guard apparently does for this cursed franchise

Im counting on Gase to figure out what Clueless Joe never could- how to assemble a solid OL.

It's like people who advocate giving the government more tax money to fix education, homelessness, poverty, the drug problem, whatever….It doesn't work, same thing with blowing high draft picks on guards
You don't see the Patriots or Panthers wasting countless pick on friggin guards.

Guard is the most disposable position in the league next to special teasers. Get some corners, LB's and DE's. Got news for you- we're going to lose Matthews and Miller. Probably Vernon too. Can't afford any more Philbin/Ireland dinosaur thinking when it comes to the draft