Handling of Noah Igbinoghene an example of Dolphins’ long-term process

[Marino420TD]

Ppl often go off on tangents, using specific player selection comps, instead of addressing the fact that there is a basic philosophical difference.

The fact is, the RB position is no longer seen by most NFL FOs as a high value position. Not in terms of drafting, and not in terms of high $ free agents.

This is the draft history of RBs. I defy any of the ppl expousing the old school RB philosophy to look at it, and show me how spending high draft capital on a RB, in the modern game (after the turn of the century) translates to a championship contending team.

DraftHistory.com

www.drafthistory.com

From a value of position perspective? Absolutely. Someone used as an example that taking a running back would have been a much better pick than Charles Harris. What if the pick would have been TJ Watt instead of Harris, would the running back still be the better pick? Hell no. A defensive end, especially on a rookie contract, is way more valuable than a running back.
I wouldn’t judge a cornerback in his rookie season compared to a running back in their rookie season. Cornerback is notoriously one of the hardest positions to excel at right away, while running back is the easiest to excel at as a rookie. Jeff Okudah was an excellent corner prospect that was selected with the third overall pick in Iggy’s draft class and he struggled and looked lost last season. Should the Lions have selected a running back instead because they would have gotten more immediate production from that position? Hell no to that question also.

Certainly agree that RB is generally regarded as less of a value, especially in the high rounds these days. However, I'm not sure that our record of drafting by position value is that great. Example: since the Charles Harris pick in 2017, we have taken 22 players in rounds 1-4. 5 OL, 3 S, and 3 TE top the list by position. Compare that to only 2 pass rushers (DE/OLB), 1 QB, 1 WR, and 1 RB. S and TE are not really the positions I would target to build a playoff roster.

 

[circumstances]

First 4 games...

223 snaps
22 targets
14 completions
63.6% completion
280 yards
12.7 y/t
3 TDs
0 PBU
146.8 passer rating

Rest of season (6 games played)...
63 snaps
6 targets
3 completions
50% completion
26 yards
4.3 y/t
0 TDs
1 PBU
61.8 passer rating

I'm not posting this to excuse Iggy. Overall he had a garbage first season. And there is an obvious contextual difference that must be acknowledged between the first and second set of numbers that I don't think needs to be explained.

I do also just also want to note that 260 (85%) of his yards and all his TDs came against Buffalo/Seattle, even though those two games only account for 42% of his snaps. He actually had a good statistical season otherwise, but those games were just that bad.

But don't shoot the messenger here. I'm just posting the numbers since we are talking about his snaps and the stats he gave up after his disastrous start.

If he are going to totally trash him for how bad he was to start the year, I don't think we should ignore that he, at the very least, managed to not embarrass himself in what amounted to 22% of his snaps on the year afterwards.

exactly.

it's fair to say he got destroyed as a rookie, but if all you remember are the very early games when he filled in for Byron, and didn't really pay attention to how he didn't get destroyed later on, you aren't acknowledging (or allowing for) him improving as the season went on.

 

[Mach2]

Certainly agree that RB is generally regarded as less of a value, especially in the high rounds these days. However, I'm not sure that our record of drafting by position value is that great. Example: since the Charles Harris pick in 2017, we have taken 22 players in rounds 1-4. 5 OL, 3 S, and 3 TE top the list by position. Compare that to only 2 pass rushers (DE/OLB), 1 QB, 1 WR, and 1 RB. S and TE are not really the positions I would target to build a playoff roster.

That's really a specious arguement, unless you are argueing that we would be better off not drafting for positional value.

Even if you took that approach, if you don't think we draft other positions wisely, why would you suspect the RB position would be any different?

 

[TheRevoltingBlob]

Certainly agree that RB is generally regarded as less of a value, especially in the high rounds these days. However, I'm not sure that our record of drafting by position value is that great. Example: since the Charles Harris pick in 2017, we have taken 22 players in rounds 1-4. 5 OL, 3 S, and 3 TE top the list by position. Compare that to only 2 pass rushers (DE/OLB), 1 QB, 1 WR, and 1 RB. S and TE are not really the positions I would target to build a playoff roster.

I don't disagree our drafting has too often been suspect. I was banging the table for Jefferson (instead of Jackson) last year, and I had no idea Jefferson would be THIS good. I also felt there were better players on the board than Noah.

But none of this is an argument for going RB early. I've been critical of many of the same picks you likely have been. But the guys I wanted instead, in at least the first 2 rounds, were never RBs.

 

[Ray R]

Your posts are as befuddling as any others on this site,

I guess I'm just one of the guys - LOL

 

[rickd13]

Certainly agree that RB is generally regarded as less of a value, especially in the high rounds these days. However, I'm not sure that our record of drafting by position value is that great. Example: since the Charles Harris pick in 2017, we have taken 22 players in rounds 1-4. 5 OL, 3 S, and 3 TE top the list by position. Compare that to only 2 pass rushers (DE/OLB), 1 QB, 1 WR, and 1 RB. S and TE are not really the positions I would target to build a playoff roster.

All positions should be in play after the first round.

 

[Marino420TD]

That's really a specious arguement, unless you are argueing that we would be better off not drafting for positional value.

Even if you took that approach, if you don't think we draft other positions wisely, why would you suspect the RB position would be any different?

I don't disagree our drafting has too often been suspect. I was banging the table for Jefferson (instead of Jackson) last year, and I had no idea Jefferson would be THIS good. I also felt there were better players on the board than Noah.

But none of this is an argument for going RB early. I've been critical of many of the same picks you likely have been. But the guys I wanted instead, in at least the first 2 rounds, were never RBs.

I'm not making the argument that we should have picked the RB - I didn't intend for it to come off that way. More of a statement that we have not really been following positional value. I like that we choose a pass rusher over a RB this year. Our past approach (3 S & 3 TE's vs. 2 pass rushers in my dataset) was really poor asset utilization, IMO.

 

[Mach2]

I'm not making the argument that we should have picked the RB - I didn't intend for it to come off that way. More of a statement that we have not really been following positional value. I like that we choose a pass rusher over a RB this year. Our past approach (3 S & 3 TE's vs. 2 pass rushers in my dataset) was really poor asset utilization, IMO.

Just going by memory, since Flo came aboard we have, in rd1, drafted a D lineman, a QB, a RT, a corner, one of the top WR prospects (huge need), and arguably the top pass rusher in the class this year.

All considered premium positions, with the exception of Waddle, and I certainly don't fault them for that.

 

[Marino420TD]

All positions should be in play after the first round.

Of course, and there can always be good reasons for picking certain players regardless of position. However, stepping back, is drafting 3 S & 3 TE's vs. only 2 pass rushers in the top 4 rounds since 2017 a sound strategy? I have my doubts. I understand every individual draft case may be different, but hitting on a great blocking TE vs a great DE is different in terms of team impact.

 

[Marino420TD]

Just going by memory, since Flo came aboard we have, in rd1, drafted a D lineman, a QB, a RT, a corner, one of the top WR prospects (huge need), and arguably the top pass rusher in the class this year.

All considered premium positions, with the exception of Waddle, and I certainly don't fault them for that.

Agree, and hopefully a sign that we are improving our drafting process.

 

[GhostArmOfMarino]

You're mad that Miami took a Iggy in the first round but wish they took a running back in the first round instead? That's an awful use of draft resources. The one thing this team has right is the value they place on the running back position. It's the last position they should ever use a first round draft pick on. A third corner back has more value than a running back when it comes to team building,

There is no reason not to take a HB near the end of the first round if its the right player. Its not like we are talking a top 5 pick.

 

[utahphinsfan]

...Also we dont know how Flores feels now. What if he thinks he made a mistake, how would we even know at this point? Its not like he would come out and say it.

If Flo did not have faith in Iggy then he would IMO have been shown the door like Minkah. Simple as that.

 

[Mach2]

If Flo did not have faith in Iggy then he would IMO have been shown the door like Minkah. Simple as that.

What?????

The situations are nowhere similar.

That has to be one of the oddest statements I've seen here in a while.

 

[GhostArmOfMarino]

If Flo did not have faith in Iggy then he would IMO have been shown the door like Minkah. Simple as that.

Probably not on a rookie contact the year after he was drafted. Even if a coach had doubts about a player that would be illogical.

 

[deester11]

And people still miss the point that Iggy was lauded by coaches and teammates for how he practices and improved with virtually NO offseason in which to get techniques down...leverage, route recognition, etc. From the Cinci game on. Didn't mean he was a finished product by any stretch but improving. Isn't that the point?

PFF: Every rookie cornerback had a “disappointing” season, except for one: L’Jarius Sneed, the 138th overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft. Whether he was in the slot or manning the outside, Sneed provided valiant play for the Chiefs with a 73.8 coverage grade on the season. He allowed just 13 first downs in coverage while intercepting three passes, breaking up four balls and forcing seven passing stops. THIS GUY WAS DRAFTED 138. Okudah, Henderson (best of the ok cbs), Diggs, Terrell all had uneven moments or were roasted early. Some worst than others. Cb is not just a plug and play position, it is difficult. Let alone playing it at a high level for 2 years in college.

If you do plug and play a rookie CB...be prepared from more downs than ups. Sans Deion Sanders....

Forgive me if I think the naysayers are off. The "he was drafted in the first round " crowd and giving up on him because of where he was drafted is off. I think you'll see a different player this year.