Haskins From Osu...

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I don't like Lock very much. His instincts, feet, and mechanics are all over the place, and he looks like he processes things very slowly. He doesn't play the position with grace. He looks surprised all the time, making late adjustments, rather than anticipating, and I think that's one of the main reasons he misses so many easy throws when he moves off of his primary receiver. He has a big arm, and he throws it well when everything works right, but he doesn't check enough boxes for me. I think he's draftable, but I wouldn't consider him in the 1st or 2nd, and I'm not sure where I'll settle on with him - probably somewhere Day 3. He'll likely be drafted in the 1st, though.

I'm probably putting too much on his arm strength. As a four-year starter, you'd think he'd be further along and that is a red flag. I think Gase could get the footwork headed in the right direction, but you make good points about some of the other stuff.

 

[Birdmond]

Ya but the chiefs have guys that know what their doing, do you have confidence in MT or Grier in making that trade

I’m not sure who will be here next season but I kind of like Grier and I tend to believe that these last two years were a learning experience for everyone in the organization. So yeah I think whoever survives the season, if anyone, understands the value of the position and that Tannehill cannot be counted on, and certainly cannot be paid 26 million.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Haskins' feet looked much quicker vs Michigan than in the other games I had watched, which leads me to believe it was more to do with him just not tying his feet to his eyes properly. I hate Urban Meyer, but I'd like to see Ohio State makes the Final Four just to see more of Haskins. If he can continue to improve in this area, inexperience is the only knock. His touch and accuracy are exactly what you want.

 

[ckparrothead]

Haskins' feet looked much quicker vs Michigan than in the other games I had watched, which leads me to believe it was more to do with him just not tying his feet to his eyes properly. I hate Urban Meyer, but I'd like to see Ohio State makes the Final Four just to see more of Haskins. If he can continue to improve in this area, inexperience is the only knock. His touch and accuracy are exactly what you want.

I've liked the guy for a while now this year but if I'm being honest I've got several criticisms that aren't just about the slow feet.

He's a spot thrower and he faces the problem common for spot throwers. He's all about timing and anticipation, I expect a guy to be in this spot at this time and if I read this thing in the defense then I'm throwing it. This is why he breaks down so easily when disrupted by pressure, or if his receivers get disrupted, or if someone's not where he is expecting.

Even taking that aside, his accuracy clearly breaks down when he's got to move off his spot. His consistency can normally border on the unerring, but get him off that spot, and that accuracy gets spotty.

The lack of consistency in his feet, the fact that he can turn it up, but then falls back into habits, that's a concern. Maybe that's experience. But it could also be structural, a manifestation of football character or urgency.

Then on top of everything, his arm strength only BORDERS on NFL caliber. It's not firmly into it. I don't think he's any worse off than Teddy Bridgewater or Jimmy Garoppolo, but then again this is an issue some teams had with both players, and may continue to have with them. Teddy had to get a lot more urgent about his velocity in the NFL. I think Haskins will have to as well. Sometimes you don't know what's going to happen to their accuracy or their decision making when they crank it up to their maximum.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Haskins' feet looked much quicker vs Michigan than in the other games I had watched, which leads me to believe it was more to do with him just not tying his feet to his eyes properly. I hate Urban Meyer, but I'd like to see Ohio State makes the Final Four just to see more of Haskins. If he can continue to improve in this area, inexperience is the only knock. His touch and accuracy are exactly what you want.

I don't want them to make it. This is getting a bit ridiculous with all the lazy regular season games. Last year favored by 18 at Iowa -- lose by 31 -- and then try to beg your way in. This season favored by 12 at Purdue -- lose by 29 -- and similarly try to have all the dominoes fall your way and beg your way in. The Penn State and Maryland games were extremely fortunate also. Nebraska wasn't exactly dominant.

I'd have more interest if this were a second tier roster. But once a top 3 or 4 roster is screwing around like that time and again, on top of the Urban Meyer joke level of punishment, the program deserves to be excluded.

 

[nick1]

I don't want them to make it. This is getting a bit ridiculous with all the lazy regular season games. Last year favored by 18 at Iowa -- lose by 31 -- and then try to beg your way in. This season favored by 12 at Purdue -- lose by 29 -- and similarly try to have all the dominoes fall your way and beg your way in. The Penn State and Maryland games were extremely fortunate also. Nebraska wasn't exactly dominant.

I'd have more interest if this were a second tier roster. But once a top 3 or 4 roster is screwing around like that time and again, on top of the Urban Meyer joke level of punishment, the program deserves to be excluded.

I understand where you are coming from but I too have become a big Haskins fan (I like him above Darnold who never won anything in college). The QB with the most TDs in big 10 history is interesting to say the least especially when the guy with the record previously was Drew Brees

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I don't want them to make it. This is getting a bit ridiculous with all the lazy regular season games. Last year favored by 18 at Iowa -- lose by 31 -- and then try to beg your way in. This season favored by 12 at Purdue -- lose by 29 -- and similarly try to have all the dominoes fall your way and beg your way in. The Penn State and Maryland games were extremely fortunate also. Nebraska wasn't exactly dominant.

I'd have more interest if this were a second tier roster. But once a top 3 or 4 roster is screwing around like that time and again, on top of the Urban Meyer joke level of punishment, the program deserves to be excluded.

Agree with all of that. Given Haskins's inexperience, though, I'd like to see him play a couple more games against top D's. Aside from that, though, I'd be rooting for them to lose the Big 10 Championship.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I've liked the guy for a while now this year but if I'm being honest I've got several criticisms that aren't just about the slow feet.

He's a spot thrower and he faces the problem common for spot throwers. He's all about timing and anticipation, I expect a guy to be in this spot at this time and if I read this thing in the defense then I'm throwing it. This is why he breaks down so easily when disrupted by pressure, or if his receivers get disrupted, or if someone's not where he is expecting.

Even taking that aside, his accuracy clearly breaks down when he's got to move off his spot. His consistency can normally border on the unerring, but get him off that spot, and that accuracy gets spotty.

The lack of consistency in his feet, the fact that he can turn it up, but then falls back into habits, that's a concern. Maybe that's experience. But it could also be structural, a manifestation of football character or urgency.

Then on top of everything, his arm strength only BORDERS on NFL caliber. It's not firmly into it. I don't think he's any worse off than Teddy Bridgewater or Jimmy Garoppolo, but then again this is an issue some teams had with both players, and may continue to have with them. Teddy had to get a lot more urgent about his velocity in the NFL. I think Haskins will have to as well. Sometimes you don't know what's going to happen to their accuracy or their decision making when they crank it up to their maximum.

Not measuring it like you, but his arm strength looks solid to me. Nick mentioned Darnold, and Haskins's arm looks stronger to me. Looks about as strong as Watson's, and I'm surprised that it measures in Bridgewater's range. Had a 40-yard TD vs Indiana where the ball traveled about 60 yards in the air, and it didn't look particularly difficult for him.

With regard to his accuracy breaking down when he's moved off his spot/pressured, I'd tie that to his feet/slow processing. Against Michigan, he was able to step up/navigate the pocket and throw accurately. It's why I want to see him do it again against top D's, but it was encouraging to see him play with more life in his feet.

That said, if he goes to a favorable situation, that's a relatively minor concern for me. Mahomes isn't good vs pressure and wasn't at Texas Tech. The West Virginia game was really concerning for me, and he has the biggest difference in passer rating when pressured in the NFL. Haskins obv doesn't have a canon like Mahomes, but he varies his trajectories, throws receivers open, and when clean, has outstanding accuracy - just about as good as it gets.

Very few QB's will succeed in unfavorable situations, and in today's NFL, I rank the order of importance OC > QB > OL > skill positions. The difference between the top playcallers and everyone else is vast, and there are currently fewer top playcallers than capable QB's. So, I'm not labeling Haskins as someone who will thrive regardless of situation, and, again, I want to see how he looks against a couple more high-end D's, and I acknowledge that his lack of experience increases his risk, but based on tape, I see a guy who will consistently make the throws/plays needed to head an efficient, high-scoring offense. Just needs to show that he's processing quickly and that the processing stays tied to his feet. To be clear, that's a big deal to me, and before the Michigan game, I was much more hesitant to like him to this degree. Gus Johnson, after a scramble, said something to the effect of, "Dwayne Haskins has gotten faster late in the year." I think he was seeing Haskins as quicker (still not fast), and I think it has more to do with his brain than his athletic ability.

 

[Birdmond]

I’ll be at the B1G Championship Saturday. I’m hoping Haskins puts on a show. One thing I noticed last week, and I could be wrong, but the camera zoomed in on Haskins hands and they looked extremely small to me. I’m not going to argue with anyone on the merits of large hands but hand size is a big red flag for me. That being said the combine will be fun if Haskins participates in full.

 

[ckparrothead]

Not measuring it like you, but his arm strength looks solid to me. Nick mentioned Darnold, and Haskins's arm looks stronger to me. Looks about as strong as Watson's, and I'm surprised that it measures in Bridgewater's range. Had a 40-yard TD vs Indiana where the ball traveled about 60 yards in the air, and it didn't look particularly difficult for him.

Perhaps this isn't a 100% fair comparison because Justin Herbert has a freakish arm. But here's the difference between the two.





And to give you an idea, here's what you find IN THE NFL from a guy like DeShaun Watson, who some have convinced themselves has a weak arm because of that one time coming off an injury he had a bad radar gun reading.

With regard to his accuracy breaking down when he's moved off his spot/pressured, I'd tie that to his feet/slow processing. Against Michigan, he was able to step up/navigate the pocket and throw accurately. It's why I want to see him do it again against top D's, but it was encouraging to see him play with more life in his feet.

That said, if he goes to a favorable situation, that's a relatively minor concern for me. Mahomes isn't good vs pressure and wasn't at Texas Tech. The West Virginia game was really concerning for me, and he has the biggest difference in passer rating when pressured in the NFL. Haskins obv doesn't have a canon like Mahomes, but he varies his trajectories, throws receivers open, and when clean, has outstanding accuracy - just about as good as it gets.

Very few QB's will succeed in unfavorable situations, and in today's NFL, I rank the order of importance OC > QB > OL > skill positions. The difference between the top playcallers and everyone else is vast, and there are currently fewer top playcallers than capable QB's. So, I'm not labeling Haskins as someone who will thrive regardless of situation, and, again, I want to see how he looks against a couple more high-end D's, and I acknowledge that his lack of experience increases his risk, but based on tape, I see a guy who will consistently make the throws/plays needed to head an efficient, high-scoring offense. Just needs to show that he's processing quickly and that the processing stays tied to his feet. To be clear, that's a big deal to me, and before the Michigan game, I was much more hesitant to like him to this degree. Gus Johnson, after a scramble, said something to the effect of, "Dwayne Haskins has gotten faster late in the year." I think he was seeing Haskins as quicker (still not fast), and I think it has more to do with his brain than his athletic ability.

He's going to have to learn to throw the football while off his spot, off his schedule, and off his balance in the NFL. To me, when I watch a bunch of NFL QBs, the really successful ones are doing that probably about as much as they're making throws that look like the bulk of Haskins' throws.

We just had a very recent example of that with Andrew Luck and the way he would manipulate his spacing on the move so that he could pull Miami's defensive linemen away from outlet options that would get into the second level and do damage while the Dolphins second and third level guys were backing up in zones.

If I have to think of a reason why Clayton Thorson is somewhat attractive as a prospect, to me it's because with his offensive line he's already had to learn to operate his offense on the move. And for all of Patrick Mahomes's bad habits back in college of backing up from pressure, he was CONSTANTLY throwing and operating on the move at Texas Tech. And it is absolutely a big reason he's so good in the pros, so quickly.

This is one reason IMO that guys with experience under center are attractive going to the NFL. The NFL itself is using shotgun on pass plays more and more (think it's something like 75% now), to the point you'd think being under center in college is almost irrelevant, and to an extent that's true, but what I like about a prospect that has lots of experience under center is that he's got experience reading, operating, and throwing while moving his feet, because that's what playing under center inherently requires.

To me, that's the concern with Haskins. He's gotten to be a shotgun, rock back a few steps, set up, and throw guy. And when you disrupt that, he gets a little less interesting. He's not terrible under those conditions, just a little less interesting.

Keep in mind I like the guy. But he has warts.

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

He might be the only option but it's not an option that I like.

Rarely do you see him fit passes into tight windows. It seems like an offensive scheme limited to crossing routes and short passes.

 

[EJay]

I don't want them to make it. This is getting a bit ridiculous with all the lazy regular season games. Last year favored by 18 at Iowa -- lose by 31 -- and then try to beg your way in. This season favored by 12 at Purdue -- lose by 29 -- and similarly try to have all the dominoes fall your way and beg your way in. The Penn State and Maryland games were extremely fortunate also. Nebraska wasn't exactly dominant.

What you say about the losses to Iowa and Purdue games is legit. But Meyer's lifetime 185-32 record and highest win % (.853) among FBS coaches (200 games played min.) says that kind of thing doesn't happen a lot.

But I do agree that the Purdue loss will likely cost them. It was an inexcusable loss for a team with their talent. Losing Nick Bosa hurt a lot, but they still shouldn't be as bad on defense as they have been this season.

That said, OU's defense is more of an embarrassment and they'll be begging to get in with the same record. tOSU has a much worse loss, but a much better win too. OU's close games with Army and OK State is on par with tOSU struggling with Maryland and Nebraska.

 

[hoops]

He knew where to go with the football vs Michigan. Of course the difference in speed between Ohio states skill players and Michigan’s defenders was alarming. Easy pitch and catch crossers vs man. Like to see better front shoulder placement but that should come in time. Lots of on the hip throws where the defender was still so far behind they could still rac with it.

Is this kid as difficult to tackle in the pocket as roethlisberger was? Size looks similar bigger bottom half with Haskins I’d say.

I think we are gonna see a similar rise to the one cam newton had as a draft prospect. Doesn’t have Newton’s cannon arm or explosive athlete traits as a ball carrier but might be more advanced with coverage id and passing concepts than newton was at the same stage of his development.

I imagine that speed difference is gonna show up real ugly tonight too. Pitch and catch athletically completely outmatched.

 

[Birdmond]

Maybe he struggles against the blitz because opposing DC’s know OSU doesn’t throw to running backs or TE’s? Gee that kind of makes it easy for defensive coordinators don’t ya think? Anybody notice that after the Purdue game that OSU left Berry in ad a safety valve. Of course not.

 

[Geordie]

Any questions about his footwork ? Just watch that first drive, there was a play on 3rd and 7 mid drive, pressure from both sides and just steps up and delivers a missile. The kid is ready, he's really matured as the year has gone on. That Maryland game I think was where he truly grew up. He's going to be out of our reach unfortunately.

Edit: Can see why Slimm is high on Thorson, even with that Int he's just thrown, if he was playing with the same talent around him that Haskins is, he would garner way more attention. Someone will get good value from him later on in the draft.