Have the Dolphin once again traded back and missed getting a special player? | Page 15 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Have the Dolphin once again traded back and missed getting a special player?

Not sure overall team performance is a valid metric to judge a single player, specially an OL.

But correct me if I'm wrong, your argument isn't against the players per se, but against picking OL in first round? I was just commenting on that tweet about 1st round OL in last 10 years, and the fact that IMHO 3 of the 4 have been good players, with 1 TBD.

If you're arguing that they should have picked someone else instead of OL, I got nothing to add to that tbh. I would prefer to get OL later and save higher picks for more impactful players, but things don't always work that way.
correct, my argument is you should almost never find yourself drafting a lineman early first. I would make the case for the half of the first round. while i agree overall team performance is not always a valid metric to judge a single player, im referring more to the thought of "winning in the trenches" (not talking about D-line ) it just isn't the case anymore. There are no examples of a team consistently investing this much in their O-Line, clearly neglecting other positions and than being successful . sure you have to have a solid O line that can't really be debated. The trend and ideology we seem to have taken for the last 20 years- of skipping over potential electric game changers (include not drafting QB's) for big beefy lineman is the single reason we haven't been relevant for over 20 years (minus a couple of little runs). Collecting O lineman is like collecting draft assets, it sounds great (i guess) on paper but thats where it ends. Lets just do something different this draft and see where it takes us.
 
If we draft the wrong guy, that is one thing. But there should still be a special player avail at 6. As one famous person would say..."C'mon man."
Imo at 6 I would like to find hi level starter who has good character and work ethic and has a very good to great 8-10 year career..if I nail special then so be it but it’s not disappointing or indicting if I don’t.
 
correct, my argument is you should almost never find yourself drafting a lineman early first. I would make the case for the half of the first round. while i agree overall team performance is not always a valid metric to judge a single player, im referring more to the thought of "winning in the trenches" (not talking about D-line ) it just isn't the case anymore. There are no examples of a team consistently investing this much in their O-Line, clearly neglecting other positions and than being successful . sure you have to have a solid O line that can't really be debated. The trend and ideology we seem to have taken for the last 20 years- of skipping over potential electric game changers (include not drafting QB's) for big beefy lineman is the single reason we haven't been relevant for over 20 years (minus a couple of little runs). Collecting O lineman is like collecting draft assets, it sounds great (i guess) on paper but thats where it ends. Lets just do something different this draft and see where it takes us.
I think your argument is valid. Counter-point would be if your line is decimated, fastest way to rebuild it is spending in FA and/or drafting high for more polished talent. But then you better hit on your FA/picks, and just as importantly IMO, you need to do your overhaul in 1 or 2 years at most, not a trickle down OL overhaul over a larger period, which is what I think the Dolphins have done unsuccessfully until this last year when they took it seriously and overhauled the OL in 1 year with picks and FA.

At this juncture though, I'm with you that they need to focus elsewhere. I think they have a solid OL baseline\. They can tweak and tinker with it to maintain it and/or get more performance, but they need to turn their eyes on offensive weapons once and for all, which is an area they have neglected just as much as they have favored OL in last 10 years.

I would be disappointed if they had a 1st round OL this draft. I would be OK with a 2nd round center.
 
This year is starting to look like a repeat with this organization that started with JJ....trade back for extra picks, miss out on a special player!

1998...JJ trades out of his first round pick at 19 for the 29th pick. 2 hall of famers are drafted between 19-29 that the draft genius Jimmy didn’t perceive....Randy Moss (an all time great wideout) and Alan Faneca.

He also receives pick 60 in the trade, but he trades down again for 3 later picks.

The net result...we lose hall of famer Randy Moss...we picked up John Avery, Brad Jackson, Scott Shaw and John Dutton. In other words, for 1st and 2nd round pick...we got 4 nothing’s.....zip!

We repeated the mistake in 2010....Trading out of Earl Thomas for Jared Odrick and Koa
Misi.

Trading down is not a good thing if your missing out on hall of fame talent.

Chris Greer was in a hurry to trade out of pick #3....and the net of trading down to #6 is we may lose out on 1 or 2 special players...Kyle Pitts looks like a truly rare and special talent that was ours at 3....at 6? It’s looking worse everyday!

And for what? A 2023 first round pick two years from now?

If we miss out on Kyle Pitts and he becomes a gold jacket wearing all time great(as I think he will)...this was yet another massive trade down disaster by this organization...I’m praying he gets to 6.

The Kyle Pitts hype is unreal. I started a thread awhile back in the draft forum sarcastically saying that Pitts is the greatest TE prospect of all time. if Pitts has a Vernon Davis type career, that will be a disappointment for his current expectations which is Calvin Johnson type of expectations.
 
correct, my argument is you should almost never find yourself drafting a lineman early first. I would make the case for the half of the first round. while i agree overall team performance is not always a valid metric to judge a single player, im referring more to the thought of "winning in the trenches" (not talking about D-line ) it just isn't the case anymore. There are no examples of a team consistently investing this much in their O-Line, clearly neglecting other positions and than being successful . sure you have to have a solid O line that can't really be debated. The trend and ideology we seem to have taken for the last 20 years- of skipping over potential electric game changers (include not drafting QB's) for big beefy lineman is the single reason we haven't been relevant for over 20 years (minus a couple of little runs). Collecting O lineman is like collecting draft assets, it sounds great (i guess) on paper but thats where it ends. Lets just do something different this draft and see where it takes us.

You are correct. I like taking 2nd/3rd round offensive lineman unless I'm forced to take one earlier because he's a monster like Quenton Nelson. Miami did it right back when they were taking guys like Todd Wade in the 2nd round despite often whiffing on skill players in the 1st round. He blocked for both Lamar Smith's terrific seasons (back when Miami last won a playoff game) and also Ricky Williams year to win the rushing title.

Miami's years of competing for nothing having coincided with drafting offensive lineman over franchise quarterbacks and playmakers at the skill positions going all the way back to Jake Long and they continue to repeat this blunder over and over. I hate to say it, but unfortunately for dolphin fans I don't think the Bill Parcells influence ever quite made it's way out of the building. It's still there wearing a dolphins dunce cap in a lot of photos.
 
Ive been thinking about the central premise of the thread and Im starting to share OP's concern.
There's only 3 or 4 SPECIAL athletes in this first round and Pitts was one of them...and I think we pretty much blew it.
The other Special talents are a character-plagued LB and an OT that's going to suffer some serious growing pains in year one.
I dont know that there was a guy we even should've traded back into the top 10 for, tbh.
Our key positions of need were guys we should've stayed at 3 to make sure we got the very best.

Ive just been looking, in the last 2 days, at who the most amazing blends of 'Athlete' and Proven Performer, and 5 guys come to mind
Pitts, Chase, Parsons, Sewell and Surtain. 3 of these guys could be gone, one guy could be overly redundant with what's likely a strong position in 2021 already, so we'd be over-drafting, one has character concerns and one is redundant with an already-strong position group on the Dolphins.

The WRs available at 6 are guys with enough flaws that you dont really know if theyre better than guys that could've been had at 12.
 
I think your argument is valid. Counter-point would be if your line is decimated, fastest way to rebuild it is spending in FA and/or drafting high for more polished talent. But then you better hit on your FA/picks, and just as importantly IMO, you need to do your overhaul in 1 or 2 years at most, not a trickle down OL overhaul over a larger period, which is what I think the Dolphins have done unsuccessfully until this last year when they took it seriously and overhauled the OL in 1 year with picks and FA.

At this juncture though, I'm with you that they need to focus elsewhere. I think they have a solid OL baseline\. They can tweak and tinker with it to maintain it and/or get more performance, but they need to turn their eyes on offensive weapons once and for all, which is an area they have neglected just as much as they have favored OL in last 10 years.

I would be disappointed if they had a 1st round OL this draft. I would be OK with a 2nd round center.
agree with everything you said other than overhauling it last year. While we certainly addressed it, i think 2 of the 3 lineman we drafted early are career backups. would you be upset if we went Pitts/Smith at 6. Harris/Etienne/Phillips (doubt he is still there ) and then with our 2nd took another receiver (Toney )? Imagine we somehow walk away with Pitts/Harris/Toney. We just drafted our 3 best offensive players
 
sure he is, it's just no one can explain why
It's hard for someone to totally explain but this website does a very thorough and good job of explaining all about Kyle Pitts..with some video included..if you wanna take a look.

 
Ive been thinking about the central premise of the thread and Im starting to share OP's concern.
There's only 3 or 4 SPECIAL athletes in this first round and Pitts was one of them...and I think we pretty much blew it.
The other Special talents are a character-plagued LB and an OT that's going to suffer some serious growing pains in year one.
I dont know that there was a guy we even should've traded back into the top 10 for, tbh.
Our key positions of need were guys we should've stayed at 3 to make sure we got the very best.

Ive just been looking, in the last 2 days, at who the most amazing blends of 'Athlete' and Proven Performer, and 5 guys come to mind
Pitts, Chase, Parsons, Sewell and Surtain. 3 of these guys could be gone, one guy could be overly redundant with what's likely a strong position in 2021 already, so we'd be over-drafting, one has character concerns and one is redundant with an already-strong position group on the Dolphins.

The WRs available at 6 are guys with enough flaws that you dont really know if theyre better than guys that could've been had at 12.
I think Devonta Smith is a special player and will almost assuredly be available for the Dolphins to take. I don't buy the frame worries. He was incredible durable in college despite his slim frame and he does not rely on physicality to get open, so I don't see why that would be a huge hindrance in NFL. Most importantly, dude has that type of perfectionist trait that all great sportmans usually have.

I'd be very happy taking him at 6.
 
This is a legitimate point. What concerns me is the potential of missing out on both Harris and Williams. I like Rhamondre Stevenson later in the draft as a big bruiser, but he's a poor man's version of those two, imo.

What makes me think there's a legitimate chance Miami goes Smith/Harris at 6/18 is that they've given every indication they're all-in on Tua. They would have been silly to not at least think about Watson before all hell broke loose on that front, but that door seems pretty firmly closed now. They hired a guy who coached him at his Elite-11 QB camp to be his new QB coach; they got rid of the OC who seemed to be holding him back in 2020. They invested in Will Fuller. They got a solid short-yardage back in Malcolm Brown. There probably aren't two picks who would make Tua more comfortable in 2021 than Smitty and Harris.

And I freaking HATE Alabama. But it is what it is.

Thanks for the coherent discourse. :)
You know what? If Grier and Flores are completely sold on Tua, than I could see Smith/Harris happening.

That should definitely make Tua comfortable.

You make a good point here.

One could argue we were not a defensive player away from the playoffs. But one could definitely argue a WR/RB combo would have took us the next step.

I do believe they were going to pay whatever it took to get Aaron Jones in FA.

If there truly were all in on Jones, I could see them drafting Harris at 18.

I'm all in on Tua. I Believe he will be special. Some have criticized us getting a 2023 1st in our trades.

However, if Tua is a bust, a 2023 1t helps us more than a 2nd this or next year if we needed to replace him. Which we won't of course.

I could see them drafting early to make sure #36 isn't too late for a RB
If they don't draft RB at 18, I could see them trading back into the 1st. Maybe KC to go get their RB
 
If Cindy made the following offer would we accept for #6View attachment 73414
Wow, interesting trade.

That would give us 3 1sts in 2023. If SF flops and Burrow struggles to recover, we could theoretically have 2 top 10 picks as well as our pick 32 in the first round after winning the SB.

The question for me is this? Is Pitts/Chase/Sewell/Smith or Waddle worth that much in picks?

I believe Cincy with be a bad team
for a while. Looking at it that way I would probably make the deal if they change pick 190 to a 3rd or 2nd next year.

We would have plenty of picks to trade up from 18 to grab one of the 3 WR'S if they do fall.

I look at these trades differently than some. I understand many will say horrible value since we lose a 1st this year. However, with that trade we would be trading essentially 1 starter for 3 with the potential of 2 being a top 10 prospect
 
If Cindy made the following offer would we accept for #6View attachment 73414
I think that works out as the 6th overall pick for a 2021 2nd, 3rd and 5th and a 2022 1st and 2nd. I wouldn't do it. I get the fact that you're still getting a 1st round pick, next year instead of this year, and the Bengals without Burrow this year could struggle so the pick could be pretty high next year. I might have considered it if there wasn't so much pressure being put on my young qb to produce right now. I need to to give him the best chance to succed in 2021 and trading that 1st round pick now hurts that goal.
 
Back
Top Bottom