Have the Dolphin once again traded back and missed getting a special player? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Have the Dolphin once again traded back and missed getting a special player?

Not sure if you're aware that JJ has said many times that if he hadn't traded down that year he'd have taken Vonnie Holladay and not Randy Moss. I was upset when he traded down so early but it had nothing to do with who was going to be there at 19.
I remember reading Jimmy's concern with Moss was the marijuana reports. Said he would not have drafted him anyway.
 
so when Pitts is there at 6 and the Dolphins take Smith, what will the reaction be?
Is it a fact that JJ would have taken Moss at 19 if he didn't trade down? or is it
just a big deal that he dropped back and 2 HOF were picked in between?
 
This year is starting to look like a repeat with this organization that started with JJ....trade back for extra picks, miss out on a special player!

1998...JJ trades out of his first round pick at 19 for the 29th pick. 2 hall of famers are drafted between 19-29 that the draft genius Jimmy didn’t perceive....Randy Moss (an all time great wideout) and Alan Faneca.

He also receives pick 60 in the trade, but he trades down again for 3 later picks.

The net result...we lose hall of famer Randy Moss...we picked up John Avery, Brad Jackson, Scott Shaw and John Dutton. In other words, for 1st and 2nd round pick...we got 4 nothing’s.....zip!

We repeated the mistake in 2010....Trading out of Earl Thomas for Jared Odrick and Koa
Misi.

Trading down is not a good thing if your missing out on hall of fame talent.

Chris Greer was in a hurry to trade out of pick #3....and the net of trading down to #6 is we may lose out on 1 or 2 special players...Kyle Pitts looks like a truly rare and special talent that was ours at 3....at 6? It’s looking worse everyday!

And for what? A 2023 first round pick two years from now?

If we miss out on Kyle Pitts and he becomes a gold jacket wearing all time great(as I think he will)...this was yet another massive trade down disaster by this organization...I’m praying he gets to 6.
I agree with the premise about trade backs from the past but it’s inapposite here. I remember really wanting us to stay at 20 in 1998 in case Moss fell to us. There was a thought he’d never get to 20. There was also a thought he was a head case. In any event, I blew up when we did not stay at 20. Then JJ tried to sell Larry Shannon as having a similar skill set in terms of size and speed. I went through the roof when we passed on Drew Brees a year or two later but that’s a different topic other than we mismanaged the draft constantly.

But, I believe in this instance, they want one of a couple of guys and there’s a concrete player they think they can still get at six. Between Pitts, Chase and Devonta, they know they can get one so they made the calculation that they’d squeeze out an extra first. That’s no minor compensation.

If they would have stayed at 12, I’d be right there with you. But this time I think they know they can land one of a couple of guys and they’ve probably got those three guys graded the same. And we know this because of two reasons. One, Flores was saying this going back to January or February, i.e., they didn’t want pushed back too far. Two, the trade back up from 12 to 6 is telling.

Now you might think it’s Pitts or bust. If that's your case, it’s not the trade back you object to. It’s that Miami doesn’t grade him like you do because they are willing to live with a different player. Maybe somebody else thinks it’s Chase who just came in at 6’0 when size is supposed to be a major attribute for him. It might annoy people that our guy might just be Devonta Smith, who might be the best route runner coming out of college in a generation and who many say compares favorably to Marvin Harrison.
 
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McShay's draft has Pitts going 4 and Chase 5, we pick Smith. Not an awful outcome but that 1st rounder in 2023 that SF gave us better be a great player if Pitts and/or Chase end up better pros than Smith, if McShay is right of course.

The one thing I still don't understand, whether you like the deal or not is why make it so early ? Even waiting a week the landscape has changed significantly. I am not convinced 2 likely low firsts and 1 comp 3rd rounder is great compensation for dropping from the position that started the draft in many respects. Especially when it cost us the bulk of that comp to move back up again to 6. We really should have waited this out a little.
Because people don't wait on your timeline and waiting sometimes leads to worse deals or outcomes.
 
We could move up to #2 and take the best possible DE. Oh, we did that already. (Or was it 3..yeesh I've blocked it out of my mind after time has passed)

You just never know. I think 6 will get us one of the players we want.
i agree with you, the scary part is who we might want. Im almost ready to go all in and say we wanted Sewell this whole time.
 
McShay's draft has Pitts going 4 and Chase 5, we pick Smith. Not an awful outcome but that 1st rounder in 2023 that SF gave us better be a great player if Pitts and/or Chase end up better pros than Smith, if McShay is right of course.

The one thing I still don't understand, whether you like the deal or not is why make it so early ? Even waiting a week the landscape has changed significantly. I am not convinced 2 likely low firsts and 1 comp 3rd rounder is great compensation for dropping from the position that started the draft in many respects. Especially when it cost us the bulk of that comp to move back up again to 6. We really should have waited this out a little.
Waiting could have cost us any trade. Atlanta may have made a deal with SF.

We got what we wanted to be in a great position at 6. Who knows if SF threatened to pull their offer.
 
There are easily fifteen really very good players in this draft and three dozen future starters. Picking the sixth best player in this draft is a luxury thanks to the Houston trade, we should be picking once in the first round in our proper spot, which is eighteen. And I expect a pretty good future starter there too. It's a very good class this year.
i can't agree with your way of looking at it. as it stood we had the 3 and the 18. Doesn't really matter if it was a luxury or not. I hate the idea of missing out on two (what look to be ) generational talents at their position . For either another lineman that is not going to make our offense better or for a receiver with a very big question mark-size. gaining the extra first shouldn't mean that much when you consider what we have done with firsts in years prior. Grier and Co. out thought themselves, whether we like it or not.
 
i can't agree with your way of looking at it. as it stood we had the 3 and the 18. Doesn't really matter if it was a luxury or not. I hate the idea of missing out on two (what look to be ) generational talents at their position . For either another lineman that is not going to make our offense better or for a receiver with a very big question mark-size. gaining the extra first shouldn't mean that much when you consider what we have done with firsts in years prior. Grier and Co. out thought themselves, whether we like it or not.
No way fans would have accepted drafting a TE at 3 or even Smith, who Flores likes without blasting Grier for overdrafting either.
 
No way fans would have accepted drafting a TE at 3 or even Smith, who Flores likes without blasting Grier for overdrafting either.
i see your point but he is arguably the most dynamic player in the draft . i think we would have lived just fine with it. a trade back, especially if we did it because there are several players that we would be "ok " with is out of control stupid. a risk not worth taking, do you have confidence that in 2023 Grier is gonna snag a good player, presumably in the 20's?
 
i can't agree with your way of looking at it. as it stood we had the 3 and the 18. Doesn't really matter if it was a luxury or not. I hate the idea of missing out on two (what look to be ) generational talents at their position . For either another lineman that is not going to make our offense better or for a receiver with a very big question mark-size. gaining the extra first shouldn't mean that much when you consider what we have done with firsts in years prior. Grier and Co. out thought themselves, whether we like it or not.
Now name all the supposed generational talents that have busted? People love to point to the 1% outliers while ignoring the other 99%
 
i see your point but he is arguably the most dynamic player in the draft . i think we would have lived just fine with it. a trade back, especially if we did it because there are several players that we would be "ok " with is out of control stupid. a risk not worth taking, do you have confidence that in 2023 Grier is gonna snag a good player, presumably in the 20's?
So if we are at 6 and Pitts is there and Grier drafts Smith then they didn't have him rated like some here.

If he's so great why are the Falcons now offering up 4 or should the Jags take him #1?

Too many are crowning him before he's played one NFL down.

I would love Pitts but certainly not clinging to just him.
 
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