Here’s the deal... | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Here’s the deal...

KingHydra

Club Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
2,223
Reaction score
5,159
Location
West Palm Beach
Let's not forget they extended Tannehill.
Then traded him for a fourth round pick and paid 5 million for it.
Then they traded 2nd rounder and a 5th for Rosen.
Then they tanked for Tua.
And everyone was okay with that, no uprising. No one to say stop, what are you doing? Are you out of you mind?
I dont understand why now anyone should be fired. I say we stick with the clown show that's been going on forever and hope for the best like we've been doing.
So, our team made awful management decisions. But, because we (the fans) didnt stop them, so we deserve this?
 

Jamesw

Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
467
Reaction score
985
Age
58
Location
Bangkok
Taking the fandom completely out of it and being honest... Would he take this team as it’s constructed today to a Super Bowl? Probably not... Are we a playoff team today with him? I believe so. I believe his impact is that great.

This is not a team completely devoid of talent. We have some big time weapons between DVP Williams Waddle and Gesicki. I’m not saying that’s top 5 in the league but I think it’s most definitely top half of the league. Gaskins who I really really like is really starting to show his skill set. I get the whole he’s not a great pass blocker but I can live with that when he’s producing the way he is. Watson has been playing with average/below average/flat out sorry OLs his whole career even going back to when he was at Clemson. He had elite skill guys around him and though our OL wasn’t terrible they were just good enough and he made up for a ton of missed assignments and things of that sort by getting us out of a bad play and into a good play hot routes check with mes etc. So a below average OL is the last thing I’m worried about with him. Though I do believe our OL with get better with more experience bc they can only go up.

I also believe having Watson back there completely changes the defensive mentality but more importantly the way we call defensive plays. He would allow us to get more aggressive in the playcalling. Aggressive defensive playcalling can/will lead to giving up some big plays but it also leads to lots of pressure which forces mistakes and turnovers. The defense would really feel like well we gave up a big one but that’s ok Watson will get it back for us. I don’t think they feel that way whether it’s Tua or Brissett back there right now. I think that’s heavily contributing to them playing tight and worrying about making mistakes bc they feel like they have to be nearly perfect to give us a chance with how bad our offense is.

I also believe it will rejuvenate the team completely. It will give us energy and the most important thing that can’t be measured or coached... he will give us hope and belief that we truly have a chance to win every time we step on the field. I’m a big believer in the QB being worth more than just what his stats on the field show.

If we acquire him will we have some holes still? Of course but we have SO MUCH young talent on this team that’s on their rookie contracts that we will still have some breathing room cap wise. You can always manipulate the cap somehow. We have to get creative. Also Watsons contract is not this monster QB contract that everybody likes to make it out to be. He’s on the books for a tad over 10 million this year which is insanely low but even over the next 3/4 years it only jumps to high 20s/low30s. He’s not in the 40 million a year bracket like some other guys around the league. It’s really not the crippling contract some are making it out to be.

With all that said I still would prefer to wait til the offseason to do all this. I’ve stated I want Grier/Flo and this regime out. I don’t think I’ll get my way with both but I’m pretty sure one of them is going to have to take the fall for this season we’re going to have. So we will get a fresh start in one area or the other almost assuredly. So whoever we were to bring in I would want them to be on board with a move of that magnitude before making any deal. We don’t need anymore dissension in the ranks of the FO/coaching staff. We all have to be pulling in the same direction.
How would you compare Minshew with Watson. Before you laugh, I understand Watson has a better track record, but I’m trying to get a feel as to the difference in value relative to our current roster bolstered without losing any draft picks.
 

Beach Bum

Water Boy
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
2,206
Reaction score
2,145
I’m almost willing to guarantee if we have a losing season one of them (most likely Grier) is gone. If we totally flop and go 1-16/2-15/3-14 then 1 is for certain gone and maybe even both. I have that on really solid authority from multiple people.

Bro Ross is on fire. People may have their issues with him myself included but it’s not bc he doesn’t want to win. Ross wants to win as badly as any of us do if not more. You don’t get to where he is in life by losing much at all. I promise you from what I was told today right after the game he is literally on fire and chewing some as* tonight.

One of my guys even suggested that he may be at the point where he’s giving Grier an ultimatum on the rest of this season. My guy that I’m talking about happens to know Ross personally. I’m not claiming they’re best friends and talk all the time but he’s been around him enough to say that he’s an acquaintance. Ross despises losing and he’s at the point where he’s willing to spend whatever it takes to make his baby (the franchise) succeed.

Music to my ears!

P.S. Nice discussion Jamesw and MiaFins31! I can see both sides. :-)
 
Last edited:

bdizzle00

Club Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
1,031
Reaction score
1,271
Your posts are well thought out and insightful. Thank you. I understand DW had women all over him, but he seems to have taken it to a predatory level. I think the PR fall out would really be a horrible distraction.

However, from a pure football POV, I don't think we can afford to give up 3 firsts ++ for him. I would much rather invest those picks into the OL/DL/MLB/RB and if Tua isn't the guy either bring in a vet (Minshew) to compete or draft another QB (hopefully tall/strong/smart and with a rocket arm).

What are your thoughts?
I don't think the cost of 3 firsts, if that's what it is, is an issue. You could probably go back 10 years and pick the best 3 first round picks we have made in that time span, and a player of Watson's caliber would be a steal for those players. If a deal could be made with some kind of pick protections in place conditional on Watson's legal status, you really gotta strongly consider it.

Personally, I'd rather wait until after the season so we can better see what we have in Tua and have a better idea of where things stand legally for Watson.
 

Jamesw

Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
467
Reaction score
985
Age
58
Location
Bangkok
Music to my ears!

P.S. Nice discussion Jamesw and MiaFins31! I can see both sides. :-)
Thank you very much. I really enjoy getting others perspective. And hopefully I’m open minded enough to learn!
 

Jamesw

Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
467
Reaction score
985
Age
58
Location
Bangkok
I don't think the cost of 3 firsts, if that's what it is, is an issue. You could probably go back 10 years and pick the best 3 first round picks we have made in that time span, and a player of Watson's caliber would be a steal for those players. If a deal could be made with some kind of pick protections in place conditional on Watson's legal status, you really gotta strongly consider it.

Personally, I'd rather wait until after the season so we can better see what we have in Tua and have a better idea of where things stand legally for Watson.
Fair point given our draft track record, I’m still leary of paying such a high price. I would rather focus all those picks on building the trenches.
 

Pigskin80's

Rookie
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
8
Reaction score
7
Location
South Carolina
So I’m sitting in an airport and my mind wanders to how despicably bad the Dolphins are and the amount of wasted time over the last 20 years I’ve wasted watching or listening to their games.

4 hours of pre > post game news, 16 games per season, 20 years

4 x 16= 64 hours
64 x 20 = 1280 hours
1280 / 24 = 53 days

53 ****ing days over the last 20 years I wasted on the Dolphins. This doesn’t include the time wasted listening to all the podcasts, espn bullshit and the money I’ve spent at the bars…

I need to hunt and fish more! **** this ****!
 

MiaFins31

Club Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
918
Reaction score
1,559
Age
32
Location
South Carolina
How would you compare Minshew with Watson. Before you laugh, I understand Watson has a better track record, but I’m trying to get a feel as to the difference in value relative to our current roster bolstered without losing any draft picks.
I’m never going to laugh at a question. No question is a stupid question.

Minshew I think can play. I think he’s in the mold of a poor mans Alex Smith. A guy that’s steady and solid but unspectacular. I think he’s a fringe starter in the NFL but better suited as a long term backup.

He’s the kind of guy that will dazzle you with 2 plays then make 3 bad ones. But I think as a starter on a better team than what he had in Jax I think he’s around a .500 guy. Obviously nowhere near Watsons league but still a capable guy. Maybe with a bounce here and there could get a team into the playoffs but I don’t think he’s the type of the guy that could win a Super Bowl.
 

Bob512

Formerly Dolphins512
Super Donator
Club Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
17,921
Reaction score
9,443
Location
South Carolina
I’m never going to laugh at a question. No question is a stupid question.

Minshew I think can play. I think he’s in the mold of a poor mans Alex Smith. A guy that’s steady and solid but unspectacular. I think he’s a fringe starter in the NFL but better suited as a long term backup.

He’s the kind of guy that will dazzle you with 2 plays then make 3 bad ones. But I think as a starter on a better team than what he had in Jax I think he’s around a .500 guy. Obviously nowhere near Watsons league but still a capable guy. Maybe with a bounce here and there could get a team into the playoffs but I don’t think he’s the type of the guy that could win a Super Bowl.
What part of South Carolina are you in?
 

Alphamale

Starter
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Messages
384
Reaction score
77
Age
46
Location
Somerset, PA
Let’s start with what we have as far as players with value...

Tua Tagavailoa (Franchise QB or Trade Value)
Myles Gaskins (Starter or Depth)
DeVante Parker (Starter)
Preston Williams (Starter or Depth)
Jaylen Waddle (Starter)
Mike Gesicki (Starter)
Hunter Long (Starter or Depth)
Austin Jackson (Young Depth)
Solomon Kindley (Starter or Depth)
Robert Hunt (Starter)
Liam Eichenberg (Starter)
Christian Wilkins (Starter)
Raekwon Davis (Starter)
Jaelan Phillips (Starter)
Andrew Van Ginkel (Depth and ST)
Jerome Baker (Starter)
Xavier Howard (Starter or Trade Value)
Byron Jones (Starter or Trade Value)
Jevon Holland (Starter)
Jason Sanders (Starter)

The parentheses indicates what they are what they would eventually be or that they bring trade value. Now I’m not saying so and so will be a future superstar or so and so is a bust. I’m simply saying these are the legit NFL players on our roster and they are the most valuable players on our roster. That’s 20/53. That’s less than half of this team that are real NFL caliber guys or have trade value. That’s nowhere near enough for us to compete. Half of those guys (10) are on this list because they’re 1st or 2nd year players so we really don’t know anything yet other than they have the potential which is what gives them value.

Now from what I understand unless we just totally flop and go 1-16/2-15/3-14 Flores almost assuredly will be back. However with any of those records my guys believe Grier would definitely be gone and if we finish with a losing record they still believe Grier would be gone however I want to emphasize that... that is purely speculation and nothing concrete. That’s just what I’ve been told. But Flores has breathing room with Ross bc of the 1st 2 seasons he had. So I’m pretty certain Flores isn’t going anywhere even though I firmly believe he should be gone regardless bc like I said 2 weeks ago he completely lost me going for a tie in OT at LV but that’s for another day.

Grier is on thin ice as we speak. Ross fully expected a playoff team this year and at a minimum we had better been very close. As we all see barring some miracle turnaround that’s not going to be the case. Let’s take a look at the mistakes Grier has made and these are just off the top of my head. Please feel free to add any that I’m missing...

As I’ve stated in other threads we can’t put the Tua selection on him bc as I’ve said that was Ross pulling rank. Other than that....
2020 Draft 3 1st round picks... 1 clear bust in Iggy. It’s teetering on bust for Jackson. All we had to do was move up from 18 to 13 to get Tristan Wirfs who we had rated as the top OL on our draft board but we didn’t want to part with that 3rd rounder that would become Brandon Jones. And Tua we still don’t know 100% for sure even though I’m on the he’s not the guy side of things but nonetheless we don’t know that 100% for sure. When I say we I’m referring to the “football people” in the FO. He will have the rest of this season to show it or not. So if Tua fails that’s 3 complete misses with those 3 1st rounders from 2020. Even though as I said we can’t put Tua on Grier but still it counts somewhat.

The decision in 2019 to send a 2nd and 5th for Josh Rosen. Another complete failure as he lasted 1 year.

Completely ignoring the OL in FA basically the last 2 offseasons as we haven’t signed a guy out of FA that has solidified a starting spot on the OL.

Signing Kyle Van Noy who lasted 1 year. Signing Shaw Lawson who lasted 1 season. I’d say it’s fair to say Byron Jones hasn’t lived up to being worth the highest paid CB in the game bc that’s what they made him at the time and that’s an understatement. Ereck Flowers who lasted 1 year. Ted Karras lasted 1 year. Jordan Howard didn’t even last half a season. All money wasted.

Trading a 4th rounder for Lynn Bowden who’s spending the season on IR and has done nothing. Another deal with no return on investment.

Even though it was a conditional 7th rounder he still made a deal for Isaiah Wilson who didn’t last even a week.

Trading for Bernardrick McKinney who couldn’t even make the final roster cuts.

Outsmarting himself by moving from #3 to #12 and back up to #6 while giving away our own 1st rounder next year to Philly which is looking more likely by the week to be a top 10 pick and maybe even top 5. This is the one that’s just unforgivable to me personally. I knew it was a bad deal when we did it and stated so.

This one goes hand in hand with the paragraph above but trading what’s more than likely going to amount to 2 top 10 picks for a slot WR in Jaylen Waddle is another huge mistake. As JaMarr Chase is showing he was the guy to select at #3. I like Waddle and think he’s going to be very good but he’s getting to where he’s dropping multiple balls every week now. While Chase is putting up 100 yard games with TDs. I wanted Chase and said it over and over here so this isn’t hindsight. We could have stayed at #3 selected Chase and even though we wouldn’t know how to use we would own our 1st rounder for next year which is almost certainly going to be more valuable than SFs 2 #1s combined. We could have even selected Penei Sewell at #3 and I’d still feel a lot better. Some around the league even think that’s what we should have done.

After deciding not to give up a 3rd rounder to move up for Tristan Wirfs in 2020 he decides he won’t let it happen again so he decides to give up a 3rd rounder to move up in the 2nd round for Liam Eichenberg. I like Eichenberg but he’s not Tristan Wirfs. So let’s get this straight. Grier wouldn’t give up a 3rd to move up in the 1st round for the top rated OL on his draft board in Wirfs. But he’s willing to give up a 3rd to move up in the 2nd round for Eichenberg who they like but definitely didn’t have rated as the top OL on the draft board. Another head scratching move.

He’s completely avoided selecting any running back with all these picks the past 2 drafts. Even though Gaskins is starting to really show it now why not select at least 1 tailback in the 1st 3 rounds in the past 2 drafts to compliment him? Another mistake added to the list.

This past year in FA Corey Linsley was willing to visit us and hear an offer. Grier didn’t even pick up the phone and call him. He didn’t even try. So Linsley went to LA to protect Justin Herbert and you see the improvement in LAs OL? Amazing what the best Center in football can do for an OL.

Spent 10 million on Will Fuller who everybody in the league knows is always going to miss games because of injuries. He’s played what 1 game our of the first 5 for us so far? Another terrible decision.

Mike Gesicki is a top 10 TE in football and probably has been our most productive player over the past couple seasons and does he extend him? Nope and probably won’t.

Yet we extend Jakeem Grant who is now traded for a measles 6th rounder. We extend Jerome Baker and even though it’s not a terrible deal money wise for a starting LB Baker is rather average and was about as bad today against TB as I’ve seen him. More head scratching decisions.

All these decisions have been huge mistakes. How can any GM of an NFL franchise survive all these mistakes? I mean everybody is going to make mistakes it happens. But all of these compounded one on top of another? It’s just unbelievable.

I’m on the train of both Grier and Flores along with the entire staff and FO should be gone after this flop of a year and we just start over. The thing is we don’t have to start from scratch like we did when we started this present regime. We have some talent on this team. I fully believe that. We have a very young team but we need a coaching staff that’s going to teach coach and develop these young guys and get them to reach their potentials. A new staff would bring new energy. We need a proven head coach and GM that get hired together as a team and not forced on each other. We need them to have a plan of what we want to be offensively and defensively. We need a staff that’s going to continue to build around the pieces we have now. We still have draft picks coming up and we have money to spend in FA. We need a new staff to bring in some veterans to teach these young guys the NFL way and how to practice how to workout how to treat their bodies nutritionally. We need to do it after this season while we have ammo still in the reserve.
This is a rock solid briefing of Grier's mismanagement. I was also extremely upset we traded our 3 and then this year's #1 for a slot receiver. No matter how good they are, slots are a compliment receiver. We needed a 1. And it wasn't a sexy pick, but I particularly wanted an Onlineman at 3. I was also pissed when we threw away picks for Rosen, how silly. I also said at the time Herbert, but we take an injured QB. For some reason we are drawn to the possibility of a steal on a player with injury problems. Sometimes I swear, the fans know more than management. The way the Bills have built up to a solid team makes it even more difficult, boys that team is going to be good for a long time. We're looking at years to have a chance at being competitive again. Time to ditch Grier and hopefully I'll get to see the Dolphins win the SB in my lifetime.
 

MiaFins31

Club Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
918
Reaction score
1,559
Age
32
Location
South Carolina
Just being neighborly......

Why so suspicious? I am on the coast......howdy!
I wasn’t being suspicious just curious. Just thought that was kind of weird to ask that out of the blue that’s all.

With that being said I mean no disrespect in anyway. Thank you for the neighborly respect.
 
Top Bottom